exploring the possibilities/consequences of ipt exclusivity

[ineedaspot]

IMO the IPT will (and probably should) become exclusive at some point in the future, if not next year then in 2008 if it takes off. On the positive side, obviously the IPT provides pool with big money and excitement and the chance to become a legitimate televised sport alongside say golf or tennis; this is what we've all been waiting and hoping for. And if the IPT becomes *the* professional pool organization worldwide, then exclusive contracts of some sort are almost a given.

Still, there is a downside, and to speak frankly and openly of this downside is not to deny the tremendous positive impact of the IPT, nor is it to slander KT, the IPT, the players, or anyone else. One thing we might all agree on is that if the IPT succeeds (and it appears that it will), then the sport of pool is about to experience a dramatic change, and big changes, even good changes, are generally accompanied by unforseen consequences.

Having stated my little disclaimer, here are some concerns about IPT exclusivity and the IPT as a whole.

It would be nice to get some variety eventually. Right now, the DCC, US open, WPC and a few others are all great events, and they all have a different "feel" to them. Certainly, if IPT becomes exclusive, these events will suffer. If every IPT event is run by the same crew in the same way, it could get monotonous. Now, obviously the IPT know how to put on one hell of a pool tourney, but these other events each bring something unique, and they also have tradition behind them. It's too early to say, of course, because there have only been 2 IPT events, but I think a pool "tour" should include some variety, like in tennis of golf. And running the same event 12 times a year in different casinos is not quite what I mean.

Along similar lines, it would be sad if 8-ball becomes overly dominant to the detriment of 9-ball, one-pocket, and straight pool, etc. It would be great if the IPT had big events involving other games. We all know how KT feels about 9-ball, but maybe he would go for 10-ball... or maybe rotation... dammit I like shooting the balls in order I don't care what anyone else says... Now, arguably, 9-ball was dominant before the IPT came around, but in one-pocket is healthy and straight pool seems to be on the upswing. I would also say that it would be good to have some events on faster cloth, just to change up the conditions as well as the games played (but keep the tight pockets). I don't think faster cloth is all that much easier, but it brings out different skills.

I should mention that if the DCC or WPC or any other events suffer due to the IPT, it probably won't be the exclusive contracts that do it. Even if there is no exclusivity clause, the IPT will still become more or less exclusive "de facto," due to scheduling difficulties and differences in payouts. It may be sad, but it's almost necessary for pool to become a big time spectator sport. As someone pointed out earlier, you can't fly down to Kentucy and hang out with Tiger Woods and Vijay Singh for a week while they match up 24 hours a day at a tournament with a first prize of $20k. If the top pool pros all become millionaire celebrities (and I hope they do, they deserve it) then everything changes.

Overally, if the whole thing succeeds it should be great, even if there are exclusive contracts, but there will be some casualties. My only real concern is whether KT knows the game and its history enough to make decisions that are not only profitable, but also respectful of the game of pool. A lot of the comments I've heard from KT himself are not entirely encouraging, but he's got some knowledgeable people on board like Deno and Sigel.


PS I can recognize that as a pool dilettante, I have the luxury of being a purist, and what's good for me personally is not the same as what's good for pool. I don't need to earn a living at pool. If the IPT really takes off and five years from now the top pros are all flying to tournaments in private jets, but at the same time the DCC and the US Open fall by the wayside, and nobody plays anything seriously except 8-ball, that would have to be considered a favorable outcome, even though I personally like different games and tournaments where the players and the fans mingle.

 

[Colin Colenso]

A couple of points:

1. Many experienced and influential parties are likely to seek out cooperation with the IPT if it becomes highly successful. Their will be mutally beneficial arrangements, and I expect KT will recognize and develop many of these. Some parties may not do so well out of this, but I imagine most will. As most benefited with the explosion of pool popularity after the Color of Money.

2. If you look at the history of the sports marketing business, of the early starters, such as those with West Nally in the UK and those with Mark McCormack of IMG, many of those early wannabes became the big players in the burgeoning sports marketing business. With growth came opportunities, and those who have put their sweat and tears into the sport will be prime candidates for positions if the industry meets with the kind of success that the IPT is aiming for.

Colin

 

[jimmyg]

A couple of points:

1. Many experienced and influential parties are likely to seek out cooperation with the IPT if it becomes highly successful. Their will be mutally beneficial arrangements, and I expect KT will recognize and develop many of these. Some parties may not do so well out of this, but I imagine most will. As most benefited with the explosion of pool popularity after the Color of Money.

2. If you look at the history of the sports marketing business, of the early starters, such as those with West Nally in the UK and those with Mark McCormack of IMG, many of those early wannabes became the big players in the burgeoning sports marketing business. With growth came opportunities, and those who have put their sweat and tears into the sport will be prime candidates for positions if the industry meets with the kind of success that the IPT is aiming for.

Colin

To compare the exposure that Paul Newman and Tom Cruise gave pool with the Color of Money to that of the IPT is a bit of a stretch. Barely anyone outside of the pool world even noticed the IPT. In fact, many casual pool players were completely unaware of it. I think that although KT claimed that he was marketing toward mainstream, apple pie, America, I somehow doubt that he was being entirely sincere, especially since all of his efforts were directed and dependent upon the already pool enthusiast.
In fact, it appears that he targeted the pool "world" as both his target audience as well as for his cash flow. At least that's how I see his business model.

 

[Timberly]

those who have put their sweat and tears into the sport will be prime candidates for positions if the industry meets with the kind of success that the IPT is aiming for.

Colin

Unfortunately, that's not the case. Common sense would tell you that it is and the history of other sports and industries that have grown, that has been the case. In the pool world, KT's pool world, those folks in the past that have done what they could with a working man's wallet to keep pool alive will be on the outside looking in.

With the exception of Deno, go ask any IPT employee, Lindsay included, what their background is. I can tell you that it's not pool and anyone other than Deno that is employed by the IPT will not have a background in pool. Why? Because KT says that they (past sponsors & promoters) have been doing it wrong and he sees no need to employ them.

Sure some (Mackey is a prime example) have done it wrong but I think it mostly boils down to the fact that none of these people had deep pockets like he does and they didn't have the means... they have the know how, they just don't have the means. I'm sure Barry, Tom Gerhardt(sp), & Greg Sullivan would love to be able to put on the production & payouts that KT has... it guarantees players and spectators. Anyone of them could pull off a large event if they had the money to do so.

Another difference is that all 3 of the guys that I listed above genuinely love the game and have devoted their lives to the game and promoting it the best way they possibly could. KT doesn't love the game like they do and he won't commit his life to it like they have. This is a game to him... the pool world is another infomercial... he'll ride this ride for as long as it strokes his ego and fills his pocket. He's not making money on it yet but he is a shrewed business man and he knows that you must have patience and lose before you win.

IF the IPT were to fail and I for one hope it doesn't, but if it does, KT won't look back. He'll go forward with another money making scheme and never think twice about pool. Those 3 guys I mentioned aren't like that. Their life is and always will be pool but you won't see them on KT's payroll "if the industry meets with the kind of success that the IPT is aiming for." Greg is the only one that stands a chance because he supplies one of the best products on the market.

Deno, Greg, & InsidePOOL... those are the only people from the pool world as we now know it that will be around if in fact the IPT were to succeed as we all would like for it to.

 

[TheOne]

Unfortunately, that's not the case. Common sense would tell you that it is and the history of other sports and industries that have grown, that has been the case. In the pool world, KT's pool world, those folks in the past that have done what they could with a working man's wallet to keep pool alive will be on the outside looking in.

With the exception of Deno, go ask any IPT employee, Lindsay included, what their background is. I can tell you that it's not pool and anyone other than Deno that is employed by the IPT will not have a background in pool. Why? Because KT says that they (past sponsors & promoters) have been doing it wrong and he sees no need to employ them.

Sure some (Mackey is a prime example) have done it wrong but I think it mostly boils down to the fact that none of these people had deep pockets like he does and they didn't have the means... they have the know how, they just don't have the means. I'm sure Barry, Tom Gerhardt(sp), & Greg Sullivan would love to be able to put on the production & payouts that KT has... it guarantees players and spectators. Anyone of them could pull off a large event if they had the money to do so.

Another difference is that all 3 of the guys that I listed above genuinely love the game and have devoted their lives to the game and promoting it the best way they possibly could. KT doesn't love the game like they do and he won't commit his life to it like they have. This is a game to him... the pool world is another infomercial... he'll ride this ride for as long as it strokes his ego and fills his pocket. He's not making money on it yet but he is a shrewed business man and he knows that you must have patience and lose before you win.

IF the IPT were to fail and I for one hope it doesn't, but if it does, KT won't look back. He'll go forward with another money making scheme and never think twice about pool. Those 3 guys I mentioned aren't like that. Their life is and always will be pool but you won't see them on KT's payroll "if the industry meets with the kind of success that the IPT is aiming for." Greg is the only one that stands a chance because he supplies one of the best products on the market.

Deno, Greg, & InsidePOOL... those are the only people from the pool world as we now know it that will be around if in fact the IPT were to succeed as we all would like for it to.

nitpicker!

Hey cute a$$ btw

 

[Timberly]

nitpicker!

Hey cute a$$ btw

I am a nitpicker... I'm a creature of habit and change is sometimes quite difficult for me. I want my cake and I want to eat it to... I want the players to make the money that other pro athletes make but at the same time, I want the DCC, the Open, and the regional tourneys to continue on with the same players... It's unrealistic... exclusivity or not, the majority of these guys won't bother with a lot of these tournaments simply because of the money they're going to make on the IPT.

Right now those like myself can take solace in the fact there are some GREAT players that aren't on the IPT... they will be one day but at least for right now we've still got a chance to watch these guys at the tournaments that we love to watch them in.

Of course you think my a$$ is cute, why else would you be there? LOL, it's not like I'm KT and you're Jake so it must be that you think it's cute.

 

[Colin Colenso]

To compare the exposure that Paul Newman and Tom Cruise gave pool with the Color of Money to that of the IPT is a bit of a stretch. Barely anyone outside of the pool world even noticed the IPT. In fact, many casual pool players were completely unaware of it. I think that although KT claimed that he was marketing toward mainstream, apple pie, America, I somehow doubt that he was being entirely sincere, especially since all of his efforts were directed and dependent upon the already pool enthusiast.
In fact, it appears that he targeted the pool "world" as both his target audience as well as for his cash flow. At least that's how I see his business model.

Timberly,
I wasn't suggesting that the IPT has had such influence to this stage, I was suggesting that if IPT has the success it aims for, that would make it an ongoing business with 10+ multi-million dollar events per year, world wide coverage, main stream news coverage.

That is its goal and it will likely need that level of success to continue after a few years. And if that happens its influence in popularizing the game should in fact be greater than what the Color of Money achieved.

Re: Getting on KT's payroll. I wasn't suggesting that people in the industry would need to do that to find success. In a burgeoning industry many positions and opportunities become available. KT may become the dominant player (lets compare to Microsoft) but many new companies could arise and be successful, such as the thousands of tech companies that sprout up in the shadows of microsoft, filling the niches.

Those that have talents and passion could benefit greatly I believe.

Again...this is all speculative, it depends on the IPT being the hit that we want it to be.

Colin

 

[rackmsuckr]

Why doesn't he just start a Woman's Division? That makes sense to everybody else I've talked to, why doesn't that makes sense to Kevin Trudeau?

I asked him at the NAO and he is seriously considering it (I speculate that he may work with the WPBA?) but wants to get these events off the ground first. IMHO, I think the IPT will lose a little something something if there are only a couple women, if any at all, playing on the tour next year.

 

[cueball1950]

Cueball1950.......there's a bit of that I really don't understand.....if the IPT "folded" one element of their being considered "folded'' would be that they themselves were no longer in a position to fulfil their own contractual obligations towards the players so what do you think in practical terms that a "folded" IPT could do about enforcing any player exclusivity contract they might be holding?

In a sense you are somewhat correct about what you stated. The point that i am trying to make is this....If the IPT tour stops (regroups or what ever) and the players want to play in other tournaments in the interm he can demand a piece. And if they folded totally and he wanted a piece of their winnings from other events, what makes anyone think he can't collect it. If enough money is involved don't you think KT will try to enforce the contract with lawsuits or whatever. What would a player do. try to fight it. they don't have the money to fight him or his lawyers. but i would love to see the way this exclusivity contract will be worded if this ever comes fact. O just hope that the players have a lawyer before reading it....mike

 

[memikey]

In a sense you are somewhat correct about what you stated. The point that i am trying to make is this....If the IPT tour stops (regroups or what ever) and the players want to play in other tournaments in the interm he can demand a piece. And if they folded totally and he wanted a piece of their winnings from other events, what makes anyone think he can't collect it. If enough money is involved don't you think KT will try to enforce the contract with lawsuits or whatever. What would a player do. try to fight it. they don't have the money to fight him or his lawyers. but i would love to see the way this exclusivity contract will be worded if this ever comes fact. O just hope that the players have a lawyer before reading it....mike

Yes cueball1950,understand what you're saying but my answer to you was assuming the absolute basic fundamental starting point that any 'exclusivity' contract would be betwen the individual player and IPT the corporate entity or with some other appropriate 'middleman' corporate entity created by KT/IPT solely for that purpose.In fact I don't see any realistic way that it could ever be anything else.It would certainly never be a contract with KT the individual.Once a corporate entity has 'folded' it is no position to enforce contracts on anybody.If it was declared bankrupt the official receiver may have some limited legal rights to pursue the players for the fulfilment of contracts but only if he could demonstrate that he was able in return to fulfil the same contractual obligations towards the players that the bankrupted entity would have done had it not folded,which it is extremely unlikely he would be able to do.

KT's personal wealth and personal lawyers are more or less irrelevant in these hypothetical circumstances.

Therefore the players should have little to fear in respect of the likelihood of any lawsuits which would prevent them playing elsewhere arising in the future between them and a 'folded' or 'suspended' corporate entity and it is unlikely they would require any expensive legal assistance at that stage.

Obviously your comment about careful scrutiny of any exclusivity contract before it is signed is actually the point at which the players certainly need sensible assistance and guidance and is very valid

 

[TheOne]

I am a nitpicker... I'm a creature of habit and change is sometimes quite difficult for me. I want my cake and I want to eat it to... I want the players to make the money that other pro athletes make but at the same time, I want the DCC, the Open, and the regional tourneys to continue on with the same players... It's unrealistic... exclusivity or not, the majority of these guys won't bother with a lot of these tournaments simply because of the money they're going to make on the IPT.

Right now those like myself can take solace in the fact there are some GREAT players that aren't on the IPT... they will be one day but at least for right now we've still got a chance to watch these guys at the tournaments that we love to watch them in.

Of course you think my a$$ is cute, why else would you be there? LOL, it's not like I'm KT and you're Jake so it must be that you think it's cute.

The nitpicker was a joke, its often tosed around here by a few people who just don't see eye to eye with constructive comments.

I agree with you about the other tournaments, I have heard many TOP players say things like "why would I get out of bed to play in a comp that only pays $5,000 for 4th". IMO these players are being very short sighted and have been blinded by the cash. If I was playing full time and on the IPT I would want to play in all the big events, IPT or not, but guess it depends on what your reasons for playing are.

feel free to email any bum pics.

 

[jjinfla]

Jake,if the above bit is in answer to my post about the questionable logistics of what you had suggested before then I have to say that this still doesn't make a great deal of logistical sense and in fact muddies the water even more unless the IPT organisers have found one of H G Wells time machines and put it into working order

QUOTE]

I agree, it is a complicated operation, very complicated.

My comment about the IPT having a "season" running from January to June was from a comment I heard Mike Sigel make to a TV reporter in Orlando at a qualifier.

The tournaments for the rest of this year are set with rooms and tables reserved. If they really do have plans for two tournaments a month in 2007 thru June then they must already have made reservations for them.

Trying to get reservations 6 months ahead is almost impossible.

Many conventions now reserve two years ahead. Look at Barry and the US Open he is reserved out to 2008.

Since Diamond tables are being used I would imagine Gregg Sullivan would know some of the answers.

I would also imagine that Behrman and any other TD's would have already had a talk with KT to get a head's up on planning for the future. If they didn't, well shame on them, they have only one event to worry about while the IPT has many.

But I am sure that the shakers and movers are well advised of future events and the rest of us will just have to wait and see and dream and speculate.

I can just hear KT saying to another promoter, "let's do lunch - your jet or mine?"

Jake

 

[jjinfla]

I agree with you about the other tournaments, I have heard many TOP players say things like "why would I get out of bed to play in a comp that only pays $5,000 for 4th". IMO these players are being very short sighted and have been blinded by the cash. If I was playing full time and on the IPT I would want to play in all the big events, IPT or not, but guess it depends on what your reasons for playing are.
.

Keep in mind that starting in 2007 the IPT will be a job for the card holders. As such they will be expected to follow the rules of the company just like any other worker in any other job. They will have obligations to their employer.

So, if they do have a season where they are playing in tournaments twice a month they would be stupid to jeopardize their success and earning power by playing in other tournaments. Where they might not make any money. Wear themselves down. And take a chance of getting hurt by a crazy, jealous person. Or getting robbed on the way out. It would just not be worth it. Fame does bring some bad baggage.

Jake

 

[TheOne]

Keep in mind that starting in 2007 the IPT will be a job for the card holders. As such they will be expected to follow the rules of the company just like any other worker in any other job. They will have obligations to their employer.

So, if they do have a season where they are playing in tournaments twice a month they would be stupid to jeopardize their success and earning power by playing in other tournaments. Where they might not make any money. Wear themselves down. And take a chance of getting hurt by a crazy, jealous person. Or getting robbed on the way out. It would just not be worth it. Fame does bring some bad baggage.

Jake

Number one rule in business, you don't burn your bridges, you never know when you'll need that person again...

 

[GADawg]

Number one rule in business, you don't burn your bridges, you never know when you'll need that person again...

A nicer way of saying my favorite

"As you climb the ladder of success, don't sh@t on the rungs because you may be going back down the same way"

 

[heyjoe]

what business model?

what's all this talk about kevin Trudeau's business model for the IPT? He has absolutely no business model. He's simply throwing a ton of cash at the sport and strutting his stuff like a proud peacock.

 

[rackmsuckr]

what's all this talk about kevin Trudeau's business model for the IPT? He has absolutely no business model. He's simply throwing a ton of cash at the sport and strutting his stuff like a proud peacock.

Hey Joe (I like that name )

You brought up KT's business model in another thread.

Don't forget, KT might be giving away lots of money now, but what kind of business model is this? He hasn't even come close to turning a profit. Matchroom Sport has been in the business for 30 years and they run a very tight ship. Don't you think they would be giving away large prize money if the money was there to give? IPT looks like a lot of smoke and mirrors to me. And let's see who's standing when the smoke clears.

I also see that you really don't like the IPT from your 3 posts. Can you tell me what you feel Kevin needs to do with the IPT to be acceptable?

 

[Grilled Cheese]

HA! Great question Linda.


My $0.02 assuming the IPT is actually successful and money is guaranteed and paid out:

Beggars can't be choosers. The IPT is the best thing to ever hit pool, bar none. Don't rock the boat. The biggest negatives of the IPT will be easily washed away by the numerous positives.

Does anyone here believe for a second that Busta or Reyes are going to miss playing in the U.S. Open when they'll have 11 tournaments in a year where, with their skill, can cash in $30,000 each time (and more)? Add that up!

Even the players at the bottom of the barrel will make at least $100,000. If those bottom of the barrel players LOSE in every non-IPT event they play (the same way they might lose in every IPT event), you dissenters of the IPT, by all means, tell me - how much will the earn? $100,000? LMMFAO!


Nuff said --->




PS...I don't like the idea of exclusivity, but like I said in other threads and other posts...the players will not care so long as the money is there. The fans might...

 

[heyjoe]

Hey Joe (I like that name )

You brought up KT's business model in another thread.



I also see that you really don't like the IPT from your 3 posts. Can you tell me what you feel Kevin needs to do with the IPT to be acceptable?

I think it's great if he wants to throw money around like it's confetti. I'd take it too. There's nothing wrong with that. I just don't see, from a business standpoint, where the meat is here. Other than what KT says to anyone who will listen, where do you see him making any money right now? On what is he earning his money? Just from the fact that he is paying out fantastic sums of dough? I know, his plan is to fund this tour and build it up so it will attract a ton of attention from big time sponsors, or from a secretive Asian businessman who will plunk down $60 million just because it's KT who is behind it.

By the way, I followed the latest IPT tournament every day and enjoyed the tension and drama via the internet. I think it's great.

It's just that from a business standpoint, I don't really get it. I know you all desperately want to believe it, and I want to believe it too. Business-wise, though, I have serious doubts. Now, is that ok with all of you? Pounce again...

 

[jjinfla]

It's just that from a business standpoint, I don't really get it. I know you all desperately want to believe it, and I want to believe it too. Business-wise, though, I have serious doubts. Now, is that ok with all of you? Pounce again...

Sure.

But how about thinking of the income that can be generated if the IPT does get on TV? I think advertizers are now paying for 8 minutes per half hour of air time. When you consider they sell the time in 10-15 second blocks that can amount to a bunch of money. The amount it costs the advertizer is directly proportional to the amount of viewers the show draws.

Then there is the income from selling IPT products.

And the income from qualifiers.

Right now it looks like KT took some discretionary money (he has a bunch more than the average Joe) and earmarked it for pool. If he loses it all, which is unlikely, he still will have the satisfaction of enjoying himself. If he is successful then everyone is happy.

Seems like a lot of players are pretty happy right now.

Remember the old saying, you have to spend money to make money.

Look what AOL is doing. Giving away its service to their users. Why? Is this a dumb business model? Or is it pure genius? They have 20 million customers. At only $5 a month they generate $100 million a month and they are giving this away. Sounds stupid, right? But the reason is that they are losing customers at an alarming rate, and when they lose customers they lose advertizers or can't charge as much. That tells me that AOL generates a hell of a lot more money in advertizing than they do in subscriptions. So they give away their service to keep customers reading those ads.

Jake