Dan, I provide much pool information for free online, so I'm fine with people seeing ads as they learn.
Face square?
- Thread starter dquarasr
- Start date
I agree with what you wrote. Again, for some, not all players, they are delighted to have their heads on line but need to feel the cue on line also.
However, isolation teaching is important for beginners and intermediates. "Hey, you need to trust and feel your arm is on line" can be done with the head off line or eyes closed, too.
I always use the Socratic method and feedback to teach so I'm never advocating to "fire away with complete ignorance" as you wrote.
I'd love everyone's opinion on a different recent thread where I advocate almost the vice versa with hands and head, but I know my more unorthodox methods stir the pot so maybe we can resolve our differences here, first.
AND I tend to teach "put your robot in the exact stance and on line to make the stroke repeatable". So think of what I'm saying as more like a pool drill and I think it will click in for you.
Those of us who have seen your posting history over the years know that you are notorious for making excuses and 'adjusting' your intent to try to wiggle your way out of a corner that you put yourself into. You're trying to do it here again. Nowhere in your article did you tell the reader to try it as an exercise, but don't make this your final stance. You were instructing them how to set up their stance. This is why it's fruitless to argue your intent, because you change it to suit your argument when you feel you have to defend yourself. So you can go ahead and explain your intent until the cows come home, but it's all there in print.
Last edited:
Fran, I forgive you for misreading my article--and for bringing it up over the last few years. Again, photos 7 and 8 both have my head over the shot line and say so in the text--the opposite of your claim.
Please speak with more respect and love to the players and instructors on this subforum.
LOL. Have we gotten there already? Usually you're good for a few more 'intent' explanations before you resort to the 'poor me' and 'bad bad you' comments.
I'm still unsure why when I ask you to speak to me with respect and love that generates more derision--but I know you've judged me from internet forums, which rarely show our true selves.
I'm leading a tour in the Middle East starting tomorrow for the next two weeks, when I return, let's have a teachoff/playoff. We can both show our playing skills for a few minutes and then give several students brief lessons. The students and those watching can comment on our lessons.
I know when you see my playing skill and watch me teach--yes, I use a lot of unorthodox methods but they work well--I will gain your respect and we can build this AZ community stronger.
Pro friends tell me they avoid the toxic parts of AZ, let's see if we can start with you and me and clean the mess.
And it's not "you're a bad person", I'm trying to tell you your anger is preventing you from seeing anyone else's point of view, with clarity, with deep understanding.
Repeating, I RESPECT YOUR DESIRE TO POLICE POOL. However, I'm innocent of pool crimes and have given a lot of time and effort to helping players do better.
Hi. How about some details about yourself and students reviews. Who trained you? SPF instructor? Are you a player? What have you achieved? Your students? Just curious.
Thank you for asking, GC, sincerely. Let's see if people will respond respectfully or harshly to my "bio" below. (Gulp!)
My grandfather was avid and bought a home table after WWII and taught me billiards, ping pong and darts. (I used to wake my grandparents at 7 AM to the sound of ball returns in the basement). Grandpa was a second father and crafted a regulation ping pong top for his pool table. He was wonderful. Unfortunately as a self-taught "genius" my books were Mosconi and Fats standing almost erect in their shot photos. Not the best models!
I was lucky to play at great halls like Julien's in New York as a kid and on a VERY strong ACUI squad here in Florida during university. I played a little with Dave Uwate who won the national championship (yes, just like Bob) and even he was defeated at the local college level multiple times before running endless racks of Nine Ball at locals and regionals--that's how strong the players were here then. Hundreds of dollars would be gambled every night at school and there were dozens of really strong players here--and then shortstops and hustlers would come to thin the herd!
Back then, "The Color of Money" had just revived pool, and I found myself in a busy room in college with 16 nine-footers, a full Snooker table and a full Cushion Billiards table--I mean there must have been 30-40 regulars who were shooting pool until 2 AM some nights instead of hitting the books--and started giving lessons.
People hate when I say this, but I purposely did not get certified by SPF or BCA, etc. -- that was and is still my choice -- because SOME of my methods for teaching are non-standard. Dr. Dave said about me (paraphrase) I get to the same place, I just use different concepts.
What have I acheived? My proudest pool achievement is . . . my average student goes up two handicap points in one two-hour lesson only. They start killing it and win their matches and six weeks after our lesson their handicap increases (that's a shamless plug, I get paid well when I give paid lessons, and sometimes people pay my flights, per diems and hotels, too). I can explain more about why they improve that fast, but it's going to generate more controversy.
I'm a controversy machine, what can I say? I'm out-of-the-box in other subjects, not just pool!I have instructed all pool levels as singles and groups from "Which end of the cue stick do I hit with?" to pro. My signature line shows some of my work at the bottom of this email. I have written hundreds of pool instruction and pool culture articles, in print and online. I've done trick shot clinics with friends like Mike Massey--who told me I amazed him by creating trick shots he'd never seen before--if that's not an achievement . . . haha.
Any teacher should play competently, of course. I'd like Fran to take my challenge, because she and others have said negative things about my play from articles and photos, and I'd post a video here if I thought they'd actually watch it.
Good pool people stick together, I’ve collaborated with Ronny Park, Tim “The Monk” Miller, Donny Lutz, Tony Robles, Dom Esposito, Allan P. Sand, Tom Kennedy, Max Eberle, Mike Massey, Dom “The Drill Instructor” Esposito, Nancy Cote, Tom “Dr. Cue” Rossman, Tom Simpson, Steve Lillis, Jason “The Michigan Kid” Lynch, Neil Johnson, Doug “Pool Tables 101” Walters, Ted Mauro, Ken Tewksbury . . . but most of these stay off/stayed off AZ because of the toxicity from some who are legendary forum trolls!
"To whom it may concern...
I have witnessed Matt Sherman teach billiards (pool) and have found him to present instructional information in a foundationally sound and pleasant manner...creating a healthy bonding process with his students.
I would encourage anyone wanting to tune his or her game to take a lesson from this player-friendly instructor.
Tom "Dr. Cue" Rossman"
PS. NEVER play Dr. Cue in a wing shot contest, he will own you! He likes to start each of our play sessions that way.
Last edited:
Just for the record, my "fire away with complete ignorance" statement was solely referring to the player that has no idea where his/her feet are or where their elbow and shoulder are in relation to the stroke or aim line.
By learning how to pay attention to these anchor points, a player eventually begins to recognize and feel whether or not their body and stroke are aligned properly and in sync for the shot.
That's not what I was referring to, but that's OK.
If we did a joint lesson--that would be fun (!)--as Telly Savalas said in On Her Majesty's Secret Service:
"You´II be useful in helping to convince the authorities . . . that I mean what I say . . . and l´II do what I claim."
WobblyStroke
Well-known member
Nice bio Matt!Thank you for asking, GC, sincerely. Let's see if people will respond respectfully or harshly to my "bio" below. (Gulp!)
My grandfather was avid and bought a home table after WWII and taught me billiards, ping pong and darts. (I used to wake my grandparents at 7 AM to the sound of ball returns in the basement). Grandpa was a second father and crafted a regulation ping pong top for his pool table. He was wonderful. Unfortunately as a self-taught "genius" my books were Mosconi and Fats standing almost erect in their shot photos. Not the best models!
I was lucky to play at great halls like Julien's in New York as a kid and on a VERY strong ACUI squad here in Florida during university. I played a little with Dave Uwate who won the national championship (yes, just like Bob) and even he was defeated at the local college level multiple times before running endless racks of Nine Ball at locals and regionals--that's how strong the players were here then. Hundreds of dollars would be gambled every night at school and there were dozens of really strong players here--and then shortstops and hustlers would come to thin the herd!
Back then, "The Color of Money" had just revived pool, and I found myself in a busy room in college with 16 nine-footers, a full Snooker table and a full Cushion Billiards table--I mean there must have been 30-40 regulars who were shooting pool until 2 AM some nights instead of hitting the books--and started giving lessons.
People hate when I say this, but I purposely did not get certified by SPF or BCA, etc. -- that was and is my choice -- because SOME of my methods for teaching are non-standard. Dr. Dave said about me (paraphrase) I get to the same place, I just use different concepts.
What have I acheived? My proudest pool achievement is . . . my average student goes up two handicap points in one two-hour lesson only. They start killing it and win their matches and six weeks after our lesson their handicap increases (that's a shamless plug, I get paid well when I give paid lessons, and sometimes people pay my flights, per diems and hotels, too). I can explain more about why they improve that fast, but it's going to generate more controversy.
I have instructed all pool levels as singles and groups from "Which end of the cue stick do I hit with?" to pro. My signature line shows some of my work at the bottom of this email. I have written hundreds of pool instruction and pool culture articles, in print and online. I've done trick shot clinics with friends like Mike Massey--who told me I amazed him by creating trick shots he'd never seen before--if that's not an achievement . . . haha.
Any teacher should play competently, of course. I'd like Fran to take my challenge, because she and others have said negative things about my play from articles and photos, and I'd post a video here if I thought they'd actually watch it.
Good pool people stick together, I’ve collaborated with Ronny Park, Tim “The Monk” Miller, Donny Lutz, Tony Robles, Dom Esposito, Allan P. Sand, Tom Kennedy, Max Eberle, Mike Massey, Dom “The Drill Instructor” Esposito, Nancy Cote, Tom “Dr. Cue” Rossman, Tom Simpson, Steve Lillis, Jason “The Michigan Kid” Lynch, Neil Johnson, Doug “Pool Tables 101” Walters, Ted Mauro, Ken Tewksbury . . . but most of these stay off/stayed off AZ because of the toxicity from some who are legendary forum trolls!
"To whom it may concern...
I have witnessed Matt Sherman teach billiards (pool) and have found him to present instructional information in a foundationally sound and pleasant manner...creating a healthy bonding process with his students.
I would encourage anyone wanting to tune his or her game to take a lesson from this player-friendly instructor.
Tom "Dr. Cue" Rossman"
PS. NEVER play Dr. Cue in a wing shot contest, he will own you! He likes to start each of our play sessions that way.
Your choice to not get certified has been echoed by some top golf instructors who refused to get PGA certified. Darren Klausen (former pro player and coach that charges in the thousands per lesson...and worth every penny), in particular, did get certified but said he only did it for the papers while largely ignoring their prescribed methods in his teaching practice. His methods are also out of the box and very effective, just different from what the conventional PGA school of thought recommends. I'm sure the golf equivalent of Dr. Dave would also say he arrives at the same destination just in a different way.
There are many different types of movers and learners so having several different ways to arrive at the same final product is a trait shared by many top teachers in any motor-learning venture. Harvey Pennick, legendary golf coach, was coaching Tom Kite and Ben Crenshaw (two hall of famer golfers for you just pool guys) and he never let his two top students even share what he was saying to either one....the approach was that different for each that helpful hints for one would hurt the other.
It's a testament to your depth of knowledge that you can have contradictory information on the same topics...what can be eye-opening information for one student and elevate their game quickly, can tear down another student's stroke. A major difficulty in instruction is knowing who is who and which concepts to present in which way/order to each that is best FOR THEM. Most teachers just have one way and put the onus on the student to find the right instructor that teaches the stroke they prefer in the manner that fits their learning style. I, like you, do my best to find a fit for my students and present personally-tuned lessons. Sometimes, those can take some odd routes to the same final refinement of the stroke.
One thing you left out of your pool bio is that you also teach golf. May seem unrelated, but having a base of knowledge in other sports lets teachers use effective analogies for students with more experience in those compared to pool, allowing for a smoother application of already known skills/concepts. Personally, my teaching background from other sports has helped me connect some dots for students rather easily by using what they already know/do rather than trying to build up from scratch something that is already there and just needs to be fine tuned for application in pool. I'm sure your golf instruction has helped your pool instruction in a similar manner so thought it should have been included.
Appreciate your contributions. Fran's too for that matter. Wish we could just all get along lol.
THANK YOU.
We can "all do better" by returning to the OP's question. I think there is a lot more to be said about stance.
What was your collaboration with Tony Robles?Thank you for asking, GC, sincerely. Let's see if people will respond respectfully or harshly to my "bio" below. (Gulp!)
My grandfather was avid and bought a home table after WWII and taught me billiards, ping pong and darts. (I used to wake my grandparents at 7 AM to the sound of ball returns in the basement). Grandpa was a second father and crafted a regulation ping pong top for his pool table. He was wonderful. Unfortunately as a self-taught "genius" my books were Mosconi and Fats standing almost erect in their shot photos. Not the best models!
I was lucky to play at great halls like Julien's in New York as a kid and on a VERY strong ACUI squad here in Florida during university. I played a little with Dave Uwate who won the national championship (yes, just like Bob) and even he was defeated at the local college level multiple times before running endless racks of Nine Ball at locals and regionals--that's how strong the players were here then. Hundreds of dollars would be gambled every night at school and there were dozens of really strong players here--and then shortstops and hustlers would come to thin the herd!
Back then, "The Color of Money" had just revived pool, and I found myself in a busy room in college with 16 nine-footers, a full Snooker table and a full Cushion Billiards table--I mean there must have been 30-40 regulars who were shooting pool until 2 AM some nights instead of hitting the books--and started giving lessons.
People hate when I say this, but I purposely did not get certified by SPF or BCA, etc. -- that was and is still my choice -- because SOME of my methods for teaching are non-standard. Dr. Dave said about me (paraphrase) I get to the same place, I just use different concepts.
What have I acheived? My proudest pool achievement is . . . my average student goes up two handicap points in one two-hour lesson only. They start killing it and win their matches and six weeks after our lesson their handicap increases (that's a shamless plug, I get paid well when I give paid lessons, and sometimes people pay my flights, per diems and hotels, too). I can explain more about why they improve that fast, but it's going to generate more controversy.
I have instructed all pool levels as singles and groups from "Which end of the cue stick do I hit with?" to pro. My signature line shows some of my work at the bottom of this email. I have written hundreds of pool instruction and pool culture articles, in print and online. I've done trick shot clinics with friends like Mike Massey--who told me I amazed him by creating trick shots he'd never seen before--if that's not an achievement . . . haha.
Any teacher should play competently, of course. I'd like Fran to take my challenge, because she and others have said negative things about my play from articles and photos, and I'd post a video here if I thought they'd actually watch it.
Good pool people stick together, I’ve collaborated with Ronny Park, Tim “The Monk” Miller, Donny Lutz, Tony Robles, Dom Esposito, Allan P. Sand, Tom Kennedy, Max Eberle, Mike Massey, Dom “The Drill Instructor” Esposito, Nancy Cote, Tom “Dr. Cue” Rossman, Tom Simpson, Steve Lillis, Jason “The Michigan Kid” Lynch, Neil Johnson, Doug “Pool Tables 101” Walters, Ted Mauro, Ken Tewksbury . . . but most of these stay off/stayed off AZ because of the toxicity from some who are legendary forum trolls!
"To whom it may concern...
I have witnessed Matt Sherman teach billiards (pool) and have found him to present instructional information in a foundationally sound and pleasant manner...creating a healthy bonding process with his students.
I would encourage anyone wanting to tune his or her game to take a lesson from this player-friendly instructor.
Tom "Dr. Cue" Rossman"
PS. NEVER play Dr. Cue in a wing shot contest, he will own you! He likes to start each of our play sessions that way.
Do you accept my teaching/playing challenge?
Challenge? No. Of course not.
Tony doesn't recall who you are. I guess it was a brief collaboration.
Your choice not to get certified has nothing to do with any methodology taught by the BCA. There is no BCA teaching methodology. I can't speak for the SPF people, but as far as I'm concerned and several great Advanced and Master level instructors who I know well and have the utmost respect for, we all give potential instructors who come to us for certification training and testing a wide berth. We respect their choices and help them in areas where they are lacking in knowledge so that they can be the best instructors possible for their student.
But I know.... you like to bill yourself as different than the rest of us, when in fact, we're all different from each other. But when you don't make sense, then you start to hurt players.
WobblyStroke
Well-known member
^^^think it's best to drop it y'all. Pissing contests are best left to frat boys. You are clearly both valued members of the AZ community and I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say we'd rather see you post your insights to players' questions rather than having a showdown and potentially souring either one of you on sharing further.
I like a good disagreement among knowledgeable instructors as it usually provides some clarity for onlookers. I think the take away here is that while the article could have been more clear on just how to use the presented info and therefore could have been confusing to readers, it does fit into a larger body of work that addresses the opposite approach as Matt mentioned his posts saying the exact opposite. Ultimately there are different ways to arrive at the same destination. While few if any can definitively be categorized as WRONG, approaches can differ enough to seem that way.
Moving on...
I like a good disagreement among knowledgeable instructors as it usually provides some clarity for onlookers. I think the take away here is that while the article could have been more clear on just how to use the presented info and therefore could have been confusing to readers, it does fit into a larger body of work that addresses the opposite approach as Matt mentioned his posts saying the exact opposite. Ultimately there are different ways to arrive at the same destination. While few if any can definitively be categorized as WRONG, approaches can differ enough to seem that way.
Moving on...
I don't understand "of course not". Why not?
You're relatively new here so may not be aware of situations that have happened over and over again involving Billiards About.
To get some idea of what we're dealing with here I'd suggest you go back and look at some of the threads on the instructors forum in which he's been involved. Go back a year or two because he's was relatively quiet for awhile but lately is starting to stick his head out again.
Matt Sherman is a classic example of the Dunning Kruger Effect (on steroids).