Facings, whats the best? and why??

OTLB

OTLB

Banned
Lets see who can contribute the best rationale for this topic? Please state thickness and durometer also. Years is use? etc

Are they needed anymore? Is there a better solution?
 
Well I used red rubber gasket material from a hardware store on my table. The thickness was 1/8" So far I'm happy with it. But then again its only been on the table for maybe 2 months tops.
 
fsarfino said:
Well I used red rubber gasket material from a hardware store on my table. The thickness was 1/8" So far I'm happy with it. But then again its only been on the table for maybe 2 months tops.
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Thanks for your input, did they cut cleanly and easily? Did they have a texture to them which allowed them to glue well?
 
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OTLB said:
Thanks for your input, did they cut cleanly and easily? Did they have a texture to them which allowed them to glue well?
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I cut them to a rough size prior to install. Glued them to the cushion allowed to dry and then sanded them done to final size with a mini belt sander. The texture was roughly the same as the outside radius of a cushion.

Pic after installed and sanded

100_1858.jpg
 
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its a bit surprising to me that our local resident experts have not commented on this topic yet. I prefer facings that are softer vs harder, ie over 70
 
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Do search for the answer talked about it a year or two ago i belive. And any new flexable facing is better then the old rock hard cracked up one that was on it last. Does the customer want a lively pocket, tighter, more of a dead less action pocket hit the ball hard and it sits in the jaws. When is it to thick of a facings when is it to thin? If the facings is hard and keeps poking out the cloth from impacts but the facing is straight in profile, or is it better to go thicker, softer and not to get the facing to poke out the cloth? Now the facing wont have a straight profile it might look more like a snooker corner from the cloth being stretched to tight.

What tyoe of durometer and point are you using for what type of rubber hard or soft ?
http://www.buydurometers.com/durometers/Durometer Technical Information
free_pict2.gif

Type Application Indentor Spring Force
A Soft rubber, plastics and elastomers. Flat cone point, 35º 822 g
1.81 lb
B Harder elastomers and plastics. Paper and fibrous materials, Use above 93 A scale. Sharp cone point, 30º 822 g
1.81 lb
C Medium hard elastomers and plastics. Also useful to avoid surface marks. Flat cone point, 35º 4536 g
10.0 lb
D Hard rubber and plastics such as thermo plastics, flooring and bowling balls. Sharp cone point, 30º 4536 g
10.0 lb
DO Dense granular material and textile windings. 3/32" Spherical 4536 g
10.0 lb
O Very soft elastomers, textile windings and soft granular materials. Use below 20 A scale. 3/32" Spherical 822 g
1.81 lb
OO Light foams, sponge rubber gels and animal tissue. 3/32" Spherical 113 g
0.25 lb
OOO Ultra soft gels and sponge rubber. 1/2" Spherical 113 g
0.25 lb
M Materials as thin as .050" Sharp cone point, 30º -



Type

Comparision Table

This chart is for comparison purposes only.
It cannot be used for conversion reference.


Durometer Spring Force Calibration
Indicated Value Type A, O (Newtons) Type D (Newtons)
0 0.55
10 1.3 4.445
20 2.05 8.89
30 2.8 13.335
40 3.55 17.78
50 4.3 22.225
60 5.05 26.67
70 5.8 31.115
80 6.55 35.56
90 7.33 40.005
100 8.05 44.45
N/Durometer Unit 0.075 0.4445
Cal Tolerance ±0.075 ±0.4445
 
Hmmmm which rubber to use this weekend.....

OTLB said:
its a bit surprising to me that our local resident experts have not commented on this topic yet. I prefer facings that are softer vs harder, ie over 70
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Some of us are on the road working on tables, so have limited access/time to get on the forums.

I like the red rubber gasket material that you can get at the plumbing store, and many hardware stores. About 1/8"thick.
It's about the same as the neoprene facings that Diamond has, and I don't have to wait for the mailman to get here.
Softer, more durable, longer lasting since they aren't cracking and crumbling apart, but since I have yet to see how long one will last under constant play, don't really know how many years they will last beyond the cheap black ones.

When I was in Sacramento I had a rubber company downtown that would make sheets for me that were exactly what I wanted, soft but firm. But I haven't found anyone in Dallas yet to have the same thing done.
But softer facings reduce the ball spitting you get on certain tables, seem to last longer and need replaced less often.
Ask me again in a week, I'm going to try out something else and see how I like it on a table this weekend.....
 
OTLB said:
its a bit surprising to me that our local resident experts have not commented on this topic yet. I prefer facings that are softer vs harder, ie over 70
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Ok John, I'll comment...LOL I use 3/16" neoprene with a duro rating of 60. 1/8" inch facings will NOT stop the cloth in the corner pockets from stencial cutting the subrail bevel angle through the cloth covering the pocket facings! The first cuts to show up are on the foot end rail, then the head rail, then in time the side rails in the corner pockets. Now, how many times have you guys seen the cloth cut at the facings in the pockets....think about it!!!! Then check out the facings, and you'll see the same damage of cutting through the facings as well.

Glen:p
 
realkingcobra said:
Ok John, I'll comment...LOL I use 3/16" neoprene with a duro rating of 60. 1/8" inch facings will NOT stop the cloth in the corner pockets from stencial cutting the subrail bevel angle through the cloth covering the pocket facings! The first cuts to show up are on the foot end rail, then the head rail, then in time the side rails in the corner pockets. Now, how many times have you guys seen the cloth cut at the facings in the pockets....think about it!!!! Then check out the facings, and you'll see the same damage of cutting through the facings as well.

Glen:p
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and where do you check the hardness on the facings you use? what about the rest of my questions on the thread? I expect more from you on this topic. Is Diamond still using the ones I have on my Pro model from about 5 or 6 years ago? I hate Brunswick facings on the GC V.


Where is my friend Scruffy and Jay on this topic?
 
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In order to answer the question we all need to use the same durometer or atleast the same test tip. if you look at the the differnet tips the numbers are not the same what is a 60 on one tip is a 90 on another or a 40 on the next tip... consistincy here boys...

If the facing isnt cutting throught the cloth then it could be from the stretch and from multipole impacts could it be the cloth failing from time and play there for showing its true face whether or not of its thickness, softness or hardness I can understand.

Which one last the longest for the best play we can use the common 3 tables to test on.

1. Brunswick we all love them.
2. Diamond most wish they had one.
3. Ohlohusen every house about has one.

How did you install the facings?

1. glue only
2. staples + glue
3. Nails and glue

Craig
 
OTLB said:
and where do you check the hardness on the facings you use? what about the rest of my questions on the thread? I expect more from you on this topic. Is Diamond still using the ones I have on my Pro model from about 5 or 6 years ago? I hate Brunswick facings on the GC V.


Where is my friend Scruffy and Jay on this topic?
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John, I don't need any gage to tell me what works for facings;) I have 26 years experience in this area:D Look, let me give you an example. Pool Sharks in Vegas has 2 Diamond 9ft ProAm's. The both get a hell of a lot of play. One of the tables is located in the pit area, the other one is located in the upper first row of tables. In about a 6 month period, with Simonis 860 Tour Blue cloth, I recovered the tables again. Now, at the time of recovery, the table in the pit had 3/16th's neoprene for facings, and the table in the first row had 1/8th" neoprene facings. The table in the pit still had perfect cloth in the pockets, while the table with the 1/8th's facings had cut through both sides of the corner pocket facings in all 4 corner pockets. While recovering both tables, I changed the 1/8th" facings out for 3/16th's ones. 9 months later, I recovered both the tables again, only this time, neither one of the tables had any cut cloth in the corner pockets.

I don't buy facings from anyone, I buy them from rubber dealers. You can buy neoprene from 3' or 4' wide rolls by the running foot. Per running foot you get about 12 sets of facings, at a cost of about $8 to $10 a running foot, that makes puts your sets of facings at under a $1 a set.

Glen
 
realkingcobra said:
John, I don't need any gage to tell me what works for facings;) I have 26 years experience in this area:D Look, let me give you an example. Pool Sharks in Vegas has 2 Diamond 9ft ProAm's. The both get a hell of a lot of play. One of the tables is located in the pit area, the other one is located in the upper first row of tables. In about a 6 month period, with Simonis 860 Tour Blue cloth, I recovered the tables again. Now, at the time of recovery, the table in the pit had 3/16th's neoprene for facings, and the table in the first row had 1/8th" neoprene facings. The table in the pit still had perfect cloth in the pockets, while the table with the 1/8th's facings had cut through both sides of the corner pocket facings in all 4 corner pockets. While recovering both tables, I changed the 1/8th" facings out for 3/16th's ones. 9 months later, I recovered both the tables again, only this time, neither one of the tables had any cut cloth in the corner pockets.

I don't buy facings from anyone, I buy them from rubber dealers. You can buy neoprene from 3' or 4' wide rolls by the running foot. Per running foot you get about 12 sets of facings, at a cost of about $8 to $10 a running foot, that makes puts your sets of facings at under a $1 a set.

Glen
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Ok here is my analysis.

First we need to know how many hrs of play occurred on each table. This would be helpful wouldn't it?

The players on the pit table are more likely to be better and their balls go in the pocket and don't hit the facings as much correct? Perhaps the owners only let good players use the tables that are most recently covered. Were both of these drop pocket tables????? Maybe the other table gets alot of one pocket play?

My initial questions are still left unanswered.

Your data is still very helpful but the real issue of my question goes without any detection.

There is much more here and no offense but I think if you have all the tools you say you do in that truck of yours you should be able to make room for this little guage.

I go to the doctor and want my blood preasure taken, he grabs my arm and says it fine. I ask him, hey don't you have to wrap my arm and do your little test with that guage you have. He says he doesn't need a guage and he can tell me. Well maybe he can but its the last time I go to him.

Now back to your facings, are you saying they are 3-16 after you cut them or before?

Since you did the tables before and you know there is a problem or believe there is with 1-8 facings why didn't you change them the first time? Is it because there wasn't any problems the first time?

In conclusion, that room must have more than 2 tables. BUt you went there first from your statement and did 2 tables, then back again to do another 2, the same two. What about the other tables? From what you have said it seems that these 2 tables get too much play. My guess maybe table2 not in the pit area is used for 1P more than the other. Now I have to wait and see when I go out there.
 
OTLB said:
Ok here is my analysis.

First we need to know how many hrs of play occurred on each table. This would be helpful wouldn't it?

The players on the pit table are more likely to be better and their balls go in the pocket and don't hit the facings as much correct? Perhaps the owners only let good players use the tables that are most recently covered. Were both of these drop pocket tables????? Maybe the other table gets alot of one pocket play?

My initial questions are still left unanswered.

Your data is still very helpful but the real issue of my question goes without any detection.

There is much more here and no offense but I think if you have all the tools you say you do in that truck of yours you should be able to make room for this little guage.

I go to the doctor and want my blood preasure taken, he grabs my arm and says it fine. I ask him, hey don't you have to wrap my arm and do your little test with that guage you have. He says he doesn't need a guage and he can tell me. Well maybe he can but its the last time I go to him.

Now back to your facings, are you saying they are 3-16 after you cut them or before?

Since you did the tables before and you know there is a problem or believe there is with 1-8 facings why didn't you change them the first time? Is it because there wasn't any problems the first time?

In conclusion, that room must have more than 2 tables. BUt you went there first from your statement and did 2 tables, then back again to do another 2, the same two. What about the other tables? From what you have said it seems that these 2 tables get too much play. My guess maybe table2 not in the pit area is used for 1P more than the other. Now I have to wait and see when I go out there.
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John...did I mention that both tables were 9ft Diamond ProAms? The room has 27 tables, but I only recover the Diamonds, at one point I recovered 10 other Global 9fts in the room for an IPT qualifier tournament, but I don't regularly recover pool tables in any one place. Do some more research John. The cuts in the pockets have nothing to do with playing one pocket:D As I already said, the first two cuts will show up on the foot end rail corner pocket facings, then the head rail corner pocket facings. The foot shows the wear first because of the balls being pocketed on the break!!

Glen
 
realkingcobra said:
John...did I mention that both tables were 9ft Diamond ProAms? The room has 27 tables, but I only recover the Diamonds, at one point I recovered 10 other Global 9fts in the room for an IPT qualifier tournament, but I don't regularly recover pool tables in any one place. Do some more research John. The cuts in the pockets have nothing to do with playing one pocket:D As I already said, the first two cuts will show up on the foot end rail corner pocket facings, then the head rail corner pocket facings. The foot shows the wear first because of the balls being pocketed on the break!!

Glen
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I fail to see how a pocketed ball wears at the facing, only missed ones.
 
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