Then you still have a lot to learn, as it's the POCKETED balls that cut through the cloth against the facings....not the MISSED balls....do some more R&D!
Facings, whats the best? and why??
- Thread starter OTLB
- Start date
Then you still have a lot to learn, as it's the POCKETED balls that cut through the cloth against the facings....not the MISSED balls....do some more R&D!
John, enough buddy! I'm stating the facts about facings! I didn't recover the tables then install them, I installed them and then later recovered them after the cloth wore out, at that time I changed the facings! Now you can go and do all the R&D you want and not listen to me if you want, but you don't have to look at Diamond tables to find the cloth cut in the corner pockets, you can find that on just about any table with a lot of play, open your eyes and LOOK! I'm telling you how to fix this problem...READ!
Glen
John, I don't need any gage to tell me what works for facingsI have 26 years experience in this area
I don't buy facings from anyone, I buy them from rubber dealers. You can buy neoprene from 3' or 4' wide rolls by the running foot. Per running foot you get about 12 sets of facings, at a cost of about $8 to $10 a running foot, that makes puts your sets of facings at under a $1 a set.
Glen
I am curious to know why each Diamond table had different facings to begin with.
Different production dates, as Diamond started with the 1/8" facings, then after seeing the problems with the cloth cutting in the pockets, switched to 3/16"s so the tables didn't have the same to begin with. It's no different with any other table manufacture, except Gabriels, their 9ft comes with 3/8"s thick neoprene facings. Any table with 1/8" facings with extended play will cut through the facing cloth on the foot end rail facings sooner or later, it's just a matter of time and play. The reason the end rail corner facings cut through the cloth first is because more balls are pocketed in the foot corner pockets than the head corner pockets for one, then balls made on the break go into the foot corner pockets harder than the head corner pockets, and then because balls are shot harder into the corner pockets from down the length of the table which are pocketed first by the object balls caroming off the end rail pocket facings then into the pockets. Balls shot cross table are not often pocketed as hard, and balls shot straight into the pockets have no effect on the facings.
John....study the tables you work on for your R&D. If you look close enough, you should be able to tell what kind of game is played most, and if it's played mostly by one person...if they're left or right handed!!!
Glen
OTLB
Banned
ok here is a pic from a right handed player, guy even started to break from the other end of the table. 1P tables are worn at the bottom left and right foot rails from cross corner banks. In another thread I asked about stretching cloth, where it stetches the most and how it affects things etc. I have a way for testing cloth to see how tight it is when its on the table. I do love trying to figure things out. I am trying to help by getting facts. IE; what is the proper amount of stretch for Simonis.
IMO balls that hit the points are NOT on target and that is why there is so much wear there. More times than not a ball hitting the point will not go in. It will take more than another blanket statement from you saying I am wrong to change my mind. I am just a hack, using mechanical shims instead of wood ones, using the most accurate levels, setting up tables with nothing in the seams, making billiard plugs, converting to snooker, designing adjustable rails, making custom tools, using tac strips etc. Yeap I am the reason Diamond is in existence in the first place. Still waiting for a complete answer to my original questions.
Note: I agree with your facings but only for now
IMO balls that hit the points are NOT on target and that is why there is so much wear there. More times than not a ball hitting the point will not go in. It will take more than another blanket statement from you saying I am wrong to change my mind. I am just a hack, using mechanical shims instead of wood ones, using the most accurate levels, setting up tables with nothing in the seams, making billiard plugs, converting to snooker, designing adjustable rails, making custom tools, using tac strips etc. Yeap I am the reason Diamond is in existence in the first place. Still waiting for a complete answer to my original questions.
Note: I agree with your facings but only for now
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Ok I Just want to know what I'm looking at hear on the left , I understand the picture on the right but what's the deal with the one on the left . ? What part of the table is is on .
Different production dates, as Diamond started with the 1/8" facings, then after seeing the problems with the cloth cutting in the pockets, switched to 3/16"s so the tables didn't have the same to begin with. It's no different with any other table manufacture, except Gabriels, their 9ft comes with 3/8"s thick neoprene facings. Any table with 1/8" facings with extended play will cut through the facing cloth on the foot end rail facings sooner or later, it's just a matter of time and play. The reason the end rail corner facings cut through the cloth first is because more balls are pocketed in the foot corner pockets than the head corner pockets for one, then balls made on the break go into the foot corner pockets harder than the head corner pockets, and then because balls are shot harder into the corner pockets from down the length of the table which are pocketed first by the object balls caroming off the end rail pocket facings then into the pockets. Balls shot cross table are not often pocketed as hard, and balls shot straight into the pockets have no effect on the facings.
John....study the tables you work on for your R&D. If you look close enough, you should be able to tell what kind of game is played most, and if it's played mostly by one person...if they're left or right handed!!!
Glen
Looks like Diamond didn't do any R&D on the pocket facings.:frown:
Normally table manufactures don't care about how a table wears AFTER it's been sold and delivered, just look at the facings on ANY pool table out here, they're almost ALL fit with 1/8" facings, that dry out, crack, and crumble over time. So, I'd be safe in making the statement that Diamond DOES care about the wear and tear on their tables even AFTER the customer has bought their table, it's called evolution! The Diamond tables have evolved way beyond that of all other tables, and CONTINUE to evolved, getting better and better...based on feedback, which is the basis of change and improvement
Glen
Normally table manufactures don't care about how a table wears AFTER it's been sold and delivered, just look at the facings on ANY pool table out here, they're almost ALL fit with 1/8" facings, that dry out, crack, and crumble over time. So, I'd be safe in making the statement that Diamond DOES care about the wear and tear on their tables even AFTER the customer has bought their table, it's called evolution! The Diamond tables have evolved way beyond that of all other tables, and CONTINUE to evolved, getting better and better...based on feedback, which is the basis of change and improvement
Glen
I applaud businesses that improve their products for the benefit of the customer. I am sure that retrofitting all those tables in the field is big job for them. I also applaud any business that does research in their endeavor of evolving the product into something customers find to added value. Innovative ideas and doing things in a better way is the correct way to stay alive in todays business world. Just ask General Motors.
Well, it's not like a recall situation, it's more of a "personal choice" of the mechanic that works on the tables last, and if he makes the choice to chance the facings out or not. It's not that the 1/8" facings are wrong, it's just that the 3/16"s facings are better, and the wear and tear on the table you're about to work on. Depending on how much play a table gets before the cloth gets changed, will depend on how the pocket cloth over the facings look, and what kind of customer you're talking about. NO facings would be totaly wrong
Glen
To face off the pocket ie clean up the edge..
1. take a picture before facing then cover in cloth shoot balls into it for a 4 months or until cloth rips.
2. Then do the same with a facings of each thinkness then cover in cloth shot on it for the same time period or until the cloth wears out then post up the pictures.
I bet with out the facing the wood rail gets damage and the rubber breaks loose of the rail.
John your not a hack an inventor that love's pool and looks for ways to improve installs or upgrade how a table plays. Some tools you use we have stopped using and some we couldnt think of away to make it thinking it was way to expensive, then you come on here with it made and it looks like it works. But did it and are you still using it... for example 12" sq flat aluminum with the bubble in the middle was it accurate enough for roughing or finish leveling and how did the table really play 6 months later did it have rolls and vallies in it?
Craig
1. take a picture before facing then cover in cloth shoot balls into it for a 4 months or until cloth rips.
2. Then do the same with a facings of each thinkness then cover in cloth shot on it for the same time period or until the cloth wears out then post up the pictures.
I bet with out the facing the wood rail gets damage and the rubber breaks loose of the rail.
John your not a hack an inventor that love's pool and looks for ways to improve installs or upgrade how a table plays. Some tools you use we have stopped using and some we couldnt think of away to make it thinking it was way to expensive, then you come on here with it made and it looks like it works. But did it and are you still using it... for example 12" sq flat aluminum with the bubble in the middle was it accurate enough for roughing or finish leveling and how did the table really play 6 months later did it have rolls and vallies in it?
Craig
If thats the case then the facings should be made from gum rubber with the same durometer as the rails.
OTLB
Banned
John...I can't believe you even made this statment!
lets set a std for the industry on this point shall we, just like tables are made with slate, cushions should be faced off how? Hard durometer facings show be outlawed.
OTLB
Banned
I will put these on my table and see what happens.