Failure in Pool Tournaments

watchez

What time is it?
Silver Member
There are tons of aspects in which pool tournaments fail but the one that makes the least amount of sense to me these days is why would you have a limited (maximum number) of entrees.

Look around the pool world and see what tournaments are successful with fields close to or well over 100 players every time they have an event
--- Shooters in Olathe KS - White Diamonds - Mezz tour on West Coast - Diamond Pool Tour in Arizona - --- I am sure I am missing plenty more.

But then you see tournaments with the limited 64 players max that get 35 players to show up. I see local weekly events that advertise 32 players max and they get 14 or 16 players. 16 players max that get 10 players. And then the genius 8 player max events that can't even get 3 people to sign up.

Why would you want your customer - which is what someone that enters a pool tournament is - have any doubt that they can get service? The service in this case is entry into the event. Once they have their doubts that there is a chance they might be shutout if they don't get there in time or sign up in time, they will stop being a customer all together.

What is the most important rule in business? Get the money in the register. But if you don't give your customer a chance to shop, you will fail in that.

Getting back to the real reason why you want large fields, the larger the better is simply human nature - people want to be around something that they feel is successful. Limited fields tell the player that you are worried about being successful, it tells them that you are trying to finger bang the added money against some set attendance mark in your mind. And like I said, people like to be apart of something that is successful. Go out tonight to a bar with 3 of your friends. If you walk into a bar and there are only 15 people in it, you are probably going to leave shortly. But go into a bar with 150 people in it and you will stay all night. It is not like you are going to talk to all 150 people, you probably won't talk to anyone else but the friends you came with, but you want to be in an atmosphere you feel is popular and successful.

Why pool room owners and promoters can't see this, amazes me. And if you are scared that you can't finish your tournament in some fixed allotted time you have - work harder and smarter. Get better organized so the tournament goes smoothly. And if you are already the organized tournament pool director (which 99% aren't but that is for another discussion at another time) what more does it take - one or two more rounds, another hour or 90 minutes. Or if you are really scared to work, then make the races shorter but don't give anyone a chance to leave without being a customer. All of that fear just causes you to fail. All of that lack of preparation makes you fail.

Maybe back in 1990 when pool was booming, you could be more selective. But in today's pool world, do whatever it takes to make it grow. A large field is the only way to go. And it is the only way you can recoup any added money and will do away with another of my peeves --- announcing you are adding $1000 and then have $500 in green fees so you are only adding $500. Get a large field, don't nit up on the added money and don't be scared to be successful.
 
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I agree with the idea of what you are saying but I think you are forgetting one aspect. Time.

If you have enough tables to run 64 players in a weekend what happens if you get double that? The tournament is a disaster and no one comes back because they were waiting six hours between matches and playing until four in the morning.

If you format the event to accept any number of players in the given time frame on limited tables then you piss people off because they are playing a race to three and they can be out in three hours.

To do an event with rigid start times means blocking out each day. X time per round. Y rounds per day. Z number of matches per round dependent on tables available. Its a finite quantity of available time. Even then its easy to get behind. Doing a shotgun start presents its own issues.

I suspect the tournaments you mention do well not because they do not cap the field but because they provide players a good experience. Also the two biggest are on bar tables. Most of the events with any kind of added money I have seen that do not fill fields are on big tables with some monsters publicly coming. Higher entry fees, tougher equipment, pro caliber players make it hard for the dead money to justify donating.

I do agree that if you have the tables and the time to handle X number of players it would be foolish to cap it at any less than that. If you can handle 200 players and have never gotten more than 100 its a no brainer. There is also an argument to made I guess for risking having too many show up. That probably hasn't happened much so its a valid risk to take.
 
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There are tons of aspects in which pool tournaments fail but the one that makes the least amount of sense to me these days is why would you have a limited (maximum number) of entrees.
There is also the other side of the coin...

it still amazes me how a pool hall can put on a tournament and do almost nothing to promote it... so many cheap/free ways to let people know... Facebook, Twitter, azbilliards, etc
 
Imma agree with Justin...big fields at a venue not equipped to support it is brutal. I can recall some planet pool events I the smaller rooms that had big turnouts and I believe I once waited until like 6pm to play my first match.

I was wasted and sobered twice by then!
 
I stopped playing in tournaments. Waste of time.
Played in a 59 player field with 12 tables,I won my first match and got a bye.3 hours later I played my second match.
Played in another large field and it took 11 hours for me to finally lose and take third place. I got $85.00.Minus my $20 entry fee I got $65 for 11 hours.
 
I stopped playing in tournaments. Waste of time.
Played in a 59 player field with 12 tables,I won my first match and got a bye.3 hours later I played my second match.
Played in another large field and it took 11 hours for me to finally lose and take third place. I got $85.00.Minus my $20 entry fee I got $65 for 11 hours.

I know how you feel. I played the other day in a 9 ball tournament with a field of 32 playing on four 7 foot diamonds. The tournament director did a terrific job keeping things moving but it is a long day with a lot of waiting. Got there at 9am and left at 8pm after taking 7th. On the flip side I got to watch some great players, made new friends, and had plenty of laughs. I still like hanging out with the pool fraternity.
 
I think the issue with the Pro events with small fields, is that they charge a lot for entry and one of the players is usually SVB, so right there 95% of the players back out since they know who is likely to win and why spend $500, 1,000 or more to get beat? That may not be an actuall issue but I can see why that would attract less players.
 
I stopped playing in tournaments. Waste of time.
Played in a 59 player field with 12 tables,I won my first match and got a bye.3 hours later I played my second match.
Played in another large field and it took 11 hours for me to finally lose and take third place. I got $85.00.Minus my $20 entry fee I got $65 for 11 hours.

I agree. Smaller the better for tourneys.

A 64 limit, but only 8 tables. Sorry, you just don't have enough tables. Who wants to sit around most of the day and night before you can play ? So, I'm looking at the max number and total number of tables to see how much sitting will be involved before I enter.
 
I stopped playing in tournaments. Waste of time.
Played in a 59 player field with 12 tables,I won my first match and got a bye.3 hours later I played my second match.
Played in another large field and it took 11 hours for me to finally lose and take third place. I got $85.00.Minus my $20 entry fee I got $65 for 11 hours.

In my weekly local tournament, I also pay for my son to enter and both our drinks and sometimes food.

We start at 7 and usually get done about 11-11:30.

If I win, I come out even between our two entries, food, gas, drinks LOL

They pay out 3 spots even if there are only a few people, so you can cash in 3rd and just get your entry fee back.

If I happen to not cash but my son does, well then I lose it all since he does not share LOL
 
Imma agree with Justin...big fields at a venue not equipped to support it is brutal. I can recall some planet pool events I the smaller rooms that had big turnouts and I believe I once waited until like 6pm to play my first match.

I was wasted and sobered twice by then!
I agree, just came from one.
 
In my weekly local tournament, I also pay for my son to enter and both our drinks and sometimes food.

We start at 7 and usually get done about 11-11:30.

If I win, I come out even between our two entries, food, gas, drinks LOL

They pay out 3 spots even if there are only a few people, so you can cash in 3rd and just get your entry fee back.

If I happen to not cash but my son does, well then I lose it all since he does not share LOL

4 to 4 1/2 hours is reasonable.
I also played in a 9 ball round robin with 9 players.
It went real fast.
I won that one. Got about $90.00.
 
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Pool Tournaments!

I wasted a lot of my time at the Kitchen table trying to figure out the perfect format that would make everyone happy.

It doesnt exist.

Large field the TD can make some money but never get done. Not to mention that pool players dont like to spend money so you need regular customers that also want to rent tables.

There isnt any money really in TD for the smaller events.

Its not rocket science to run a tournament board. The room could do it very easily with the current boards available for small events.
 
My local tourney starts at 5pm and has between 5-7 tables available without affecting the leisure players too much. Its capped at 16 players. TD gets free entry and with him added we had a full field of 16 players for the first time. Attendance has grown with this being the 5th week. I can't imagine turning players away if it continues to grow. I doubt it will ever hit 30 players but who knows. If interest starts exceeding 16 I will be lobbying hard to expand the bracket. With 16 players we were done before 11pm (long races, dbl elim.) with a 1st/2nd split. Maybe shorter races and adding a table or two would allow the field to be expanded without too much impact on business?
 
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