False accusations... suggestions!

James

Red Wire... Right Temple
Silver Member
So after lurking this forum far too often over the past few months, I've seen quite a few threads regarding transactions where both parties weren't content, for one reason or another. Unfortunately, often times these cases escalate quickly into accusatory threads. The problem here is that regardless of the final outcome and possible resolution, someones reputation is likely affected in many peoples subconscious by threads like this.

For a simple example. I could start a thread titled "SMORGASS BORED RIPPED ME OFF FOR $2,000!!!!!!" (Sorry Doug, first SN I thought of). And while this is an extreme case since smorg is a well known poster, many people would remember that in the back of their head and it may well affect doug's future transactions here. Even more so if the person does not yet have a reputation here.

My suggestion for improvement would be to take notes from a system like paypal. If you submit a dispute, it sits in mediation for a set amount of time during which hopefully the parties can resolve it independently. If not, then appropriate action is taken.

In terms of having it work here, I could see a system something like the following:

  1. Either party is unhappy with the transaction for any reason, they report it to a moderator (either through an automated reporting process, or manually if necessary)
  2. The moderator then contacts the other party to notify them a formal dispute has been filed, and that they should attempt to resolve it in a set amount of time (3 days, 7 days, whatever)
  3. After this time if the dispute is not resolved, action is taken. Either by the moderator, the offended party, or both.

The details are yet to be worked out as this is just a quick thought, but I think it could be a helpful tool for everyone here.

Thoughts? Is anyone even reading this?
 
i totally agree with you... if for example someone has a bad incident in his/her life and cant send the item or even communicate, we are obliged to give him/her some room. Even those who have convicted from the court, have a chance of apology....thanks
 
dave sutton said:
the itrader system in place is to do just that.

I realize that the itrader system is in place, but to be frank... It isn't working at all. People rarely if ever use it or review it before transactions.

And yes, I am volunteering myself for arbitration purposes if needed!
 
Well, I think there is a big difference between Paypal and AZBilliards. Paypal, if it comes to taking action, they can take action legally. However, the moderators cannot force legal action against someone on this site for a transaction with another person. It is between the two individuals, so I'm not sure what type of consequences besides being banned would be used in order to set the situations straight.

HOWEVER, I do agree that these threads pop up often. After a few hours or days of the thread, it is more often than not cleared up. That does leave one of the two in the dispute with damage to their reputation.
 
dave sutton said:
the itrader system in place is to do just that.
Like stated above people are ignoring the system for some reason. I guess laziness. I've had a few sells of mine go well and those guys never bothered to rep me up.
 
Bishop said:
Like stated above people are ignoring the system for some reason. I guess laziness. I've had a few sells of mine go well and those guys never bothered to rep me up.

well IMO thats the buyers and sellers problem. the mods put a good system in place. if someone chooses not you use it buy/sell at you own risk

i always review the itrader info.

if a trans went bad the party should leave bad feedback.

the mods cant get involved in our transactions. changes the dynamic of the entire site. all they can do is ban someone for being dishonest.

i agree but be realistic. ive stated i would gladly pay a membership fee to clean this place up

ps this was in general not ness aimed at you
 
dave sutton said:
well IMO thats the buyers and sellers problem. the mods put a good system in place. if someone chooses not you use it buy/sell at you own risk

i always review the itrader info.

if a trans went bad the party should leave bad feedback.

the mods cant get involved in our transactions. changes the dynamic of the entire site. all they can do is ban someone for being dishonest.

i agree but be realistic. ive stated i would gladly pay a membership fee to clean this place up

I agree. I always review the itrader info as well. I leave rep for every transaction I'm involved with. I haven't had any problems dealing with anyone on this site as of yet, but have had problems with other places.
 
dave sutton said:
well IMO thats the buyers and sellers problem. the mods put a good system in place. if someone chooses not you use it buy/sell at you own risk

i always review the itrader info.

if a trans went bad the party should leave bad feedback.

the mods cant get involved in our transactions. changes the dynamic of the entire site. all they can do is ban someone for being dishonest.

i agree but be realistic. ive stated i would gladly pay a membership fee to clean this place up

ps this was in general not ness aimed at you

I think the biggest problem is negative feedback will get you negative feedback. Even if you are right 100%. Believe me I would love to leave some, knowing I was in the right 100%, but why risk it. Same problem with fleabay.

JV
 
classiccues said:
I think the biggest problem is negative feedback will get you negative feedback. Even if you are right 100%. Believe me I would love to leave some, knowing I was in the right 100%, but why risk it. Same problem with fleabay.

JV

Also very true....
 
Well

Looks like everything we do these days is some sorta crap shoot. I make sure I know who I am dealing with and that they have a positive rep on here. Also always get name, phone numbers, address, etc... google them and see what comes up, you'd be surprised. Honestly if I have any doubts I usually ask Joe's (Bamacues) opinion as he has probably done business with them. Stay in contact and make sure you give honest answers to questions. No system is fool-proof as there are always those trying to wreck the system. My two cents worth...
 
No Offense To The Idea But.........

This Isn't Ebay, And The Mods/hosts Of This Sight Are Not Responsible For The Deals. If People Don't Know Who They Are Dealing With, They Should Use Escrow.

Myelf And Several Others Have Offered Many Times To Act As Escrow For This Site, And No One Has Taken Advantage Of It.

I Even Offered To Do It For Shipping Cost, Plus 20 Bucks For My Time. (mainly To Cover Gas,batteries For Th Camera, And The Little Bs Needed To Repack The Items)
 
FAST_N_LOOSE said:
No Offense To The Idea But.........

This Isn't Ebay, And The Mods/hosts Of This Sight Are Not Responsible For The Deals.

They aren't, but maybe they should be in some way. I'm not saying financially but neutral arbitration can go a long way in conflict resolution.

I agree wholeheartedly with the recommendation of a membership fee, but I know it'll never happen... I am on many forums where membership is required for the For Sale/Wanted forums and it is great in reducing b.s...
 
There is always 2 sides to every story. Until I've heard both sides, I don't judge what anybody says.
 
Nims said:
They aren't, but maybe they should be in some way. I'm not saying financially but neutral arbitration can go a long way in conflict resolution.

I agree wholeheartedly with the recommendation of a membership fee, but I know it'll never happen... I am on many forums where membership is required for the For Sale/Wanted forums and it is great in reducing b.s...

AGREED BUT..... WHY NOT HAVE NEUTRAL ARBITRATION (ESCROW) BEFORE THE DEAL EVEN HAPPENS? WOULDN'T THAT BE EASIER?
 
dave sutton said:
well IMO thats the buyers and sellers problem. the mods put a good system in place. if someone chooses not you use it buy/sell at you own risk

i always review the itrader info.

if a trans went bad the party should leave bad feedback.

the mods cant get involved in our transactions. changes the dynamic of the entire site. all they can do is ban someone for being dishonest.

i agree but be realistic. ive stated i would gladly pay a membership fee to clean this place up

ps this was in general not ness aimed at you

Agreed. You can tell a lot reading the itrader feedbacks - if I recognize a shady seller, I can look at this itrader feedback and it will always involve rep from other shady AZ sellers. You will also notice that the more trusted buyers/sellers are not showing up in the shady person's itrader feedback. The feedback numbers themselves don't mean jack, but the names in the feedback are important.

Regarding this dispute resolution idea for AZ, I personally would never buy/sell another item here if that were instituted. We are already 'resolving disputes' by putting peoples' reputations on the line when there is a questionable transaction, and airing it out among out peers. That to me is not only enough, but it is preferable to having some sort of 'dispute resolution board'. There are too many flakes on AZ - you are meeting them in these threads and I don't think you want them making decisions about your deals.

You have seen how quickly certain people will come out of the woodwork to support anyone who disagrees with one of their 'enemies', or to pile on one of their enemies if they perceive that others will support them. Heck, I had 2-3 such douchebags come out to pile on me on the Sugartree thread, and one of them was already supposedly banned from the board. Another is a 'fan favorite' here who could very well end up on such a 'dispute resolution' board - that would mean that I would automatically lose any dispute that ever came up, simply because of a personality difference. The last thing I would want is to have such a person making decisions about deals I'm making. Sorry. I think it should be kept simple - do what you can to avoid disagreement up front. As suggested earlier, that could be a form for filling out important info on a cue.
 
Nims said:
I realize that the itrader system is in place, but to be frank... It isn't working at all. People rarely if ever use it or review it before transactions.

And yes, I am volunteering myself for arbitration purposes if needed!
Speak for yourself.

BVal
 
Bishop said:
Like stated above people are ignoring the system for some reason. I guess laziness. I've had a few sells of mine go well and those guys never bothered to rep me up.

Did you rep them up ?
 
Nims said:
I realize that the itrader system is in place, but to be frank... It isn't working at all. People rarely if ever use it or review it before transactions.

And yes, I am volunteering myself for arbitration purposes if needed!

The itrader system works if you use it. I think there are many on here that aren't even aware of it or its purpose.
 
BVal said:
Speak for yourself.

BVal

This board is hilarious. I guess let's just pretend I didn't start this thread.

FWIW, I've been using ebay, paypal, craigslist, forum classifieds, etc. for 5 years or so. I've easily bought or sold $20-$30k worth of goods and I have NEVER even once been burned. A small portion of this may be good fortune, but the vast majority is due to appropriate research and precautions.

This thread was intended to help those who don't seem to be having such good track records. I was trying to look out for other people here.

As you were!
 
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