Fargo and Handicaps

thenaturalpoolplayer said:
I don't understand why we have handicap systems at all? If you aren't good enough to beat another player then you should lose. We shouldn't be bending over backwards to try to help you win when you don't deserve it. That's how these things work...you lose, you lose, you lose, you lose, you lose etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc till eventually you don't lose as badly etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc you win.

Why do lousy players cry about this and always want a short cut hand out? I would rather lose 100 games instead of win 1 with a handycap. I wouldn't even take a handicap against a touring pro.
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Congrats. Might be the lamest post in AZ history. We'll try to get you a medal. Been here all of 4days. Auspicious start.
 
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thenaturalpoolplayer said:
Spoken like a true fan of handicaps.
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Been playing for 40yrs. There are more people playing tournaments now than in the whole time i've been around the game. Not everyone is a professional hence the need for some hd'capping system. Handicapping has been around forever in golf and bowling and nobody whines like little bitches in those games. Not everyone likes to be nothing more than dead money in a local/regional pool tournament. I know a LOT of players that play in Fargo events and not one would remotely be considered a crybaby much less a snowflake. Try to go find a non-pro tournament these days that's not hd'capped/rated in some way. Tournament directors/organizers aren't stupid. Without some form of rating system you get lousy turnouts thus shitty payouts.
 
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Nevermind tournament play, handicapping is essential to gambling. How do your expect to play better players and win playing even? Might as well hand them money to watch them play
 
garczar said:
Good point. See this a lot. People bitch about rated tournaments but they gotta have a spot to bet a fkng quarter.
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I understand and agree with the handicapping however every handicapped tournament I’ve played in plenty of people bitch about where their handicap is or some other player is better than what their rated, that included me when I played in them in the past. I haven’t played in a league or handicap tournament in 20 years because it just wasn’t worth the aggravation. If I get run over I just need to play better next time

There’s tons of threads complaining about handicaps in APA, BCA, and the like. Or players manipulating their FargoRate or whatever handicapping system is in place so they can win some big tournament. There’s money involved so there’s plenty of cheating.
 
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thenaturalpoolplayer said:
I don't understand why we have handicap systems at all? If you aren't good enough to beat another player then you should lose. We shouldn't be bending over backwards to try to help you win when you don't deserve it.
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Well I will comment on general question, as in Arizona we had own system

Four was lowest handicap, Ten minus Two was highest.

Most tournaments were 7’s or 8’sand Under.

Went you became a None few opportunities to compete.

Bars, and Pool Rooms wanted Drinker in events, not serious competitors.

Better players cried foul. My answer is open your own Room and show us how it’s done.
 
jtompilot said:
I understand and agree with the handicapping however every handicapped tournament I’ve played in plenty of people bitch about where their handicap is or some other player is better than what their rated, that included me when I played in them in the past. I haven’t played in a league or handicap tournament in 20 years because it just wasn’t worth the aggravation. If I get run over I just need to play better next time

There’s tons of threads complaining about handicaps in APA, BCA, and the like. Or players manipulating their FargoRate or whatever handicapping system is in place so they can win some big tournament. There’s money involved so there’s plenty of cheating.
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In my area(Ok, Ks, Tx, Mo) there are a lot of FR events. There have been a couple players who tried sandbagging the system but they failed. Badly. Its extremely hard to do in a area where most players are known to each other. I see very few arguments at a FR event where players whined about their #. Its all computerized so what you gonna bitch to? Actual, no-shit match result data? There are so many good paying events now since FR started.
 
One last thing and i'm outta here: i've been hearing this ' you only get better by getting beat' nonsense FOREVER. You get better by being in tight/competitive situations where you have a CHANCE of winning. Playing in open tournaments only results in the vast majority of players being nothing more than DEAD MONEY aka 'donators'. Been to a lot of events where the same players cash over-n-over-n-over again. All you learn in these deals is how to watch and rack.
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Well I will comment on general question, as in Arizona we had own system

Four was lowest handicap, Ten minus Two was highest.

Most tournaments were 7’s or 8’sand Under.

Went you became a None few opportunities to compete.

Bars, and Pool Rooms wanted Drinker in events, not serious competitors.

Better players cried foul. My answer is open your own Room and show us how it’s done.
Click to expand...
That was a great system. And it worked well for a very long time. I’m the early 90’s I used to travel there from Vegas every 4-6 weeks and stay a week.

That system gave people a feel of comfort and they would rely on their rating to gamble. The 7’s & 8’s at the time were easy $ for me at the time.

I’d just ask anyone what their rating was and play as they were proud of their rating and truthful-to their demise. I was a middle of the road 9 way back then. I’d occasionally play a 9 just to play a tough game.

I sure created lots of action all over for me. I always told the truth too. “I’m from Begas and don’t have a rating”. The 6’s I’d offer weight to at the beginning. But the 7’s & 8’s would bet more. None of this was hi stakes pool. $100 races was the upper limit. Lots of $20-$50 short race 9B.

I pondered moving there from Vegas a couple times but never did.

That was the best handicap system I ever saw work for any period of time. I haven’t been around for Fargo, but I’d imagine it’s more refined and working as good if not better.

USPPA Gene Stary had a handicap system in the mid 80’s but was too easy to sand bag/ but it kinda worked and was good for weekly tourney’s.

Best
Fatboy <———needs a handicap
 
Fatboy said:
That was a great system. And it worked well for a very long time. I’m the early 90’s I used to travel there from Vegas every 4-6 weeks and stay a week.

That system gave people a feel of comfort and they would rely on their rating to gamble. The 7’s & 8’s at the time were easy $ for me at the time.

I’d just ask anyone what their rating was and play as they were proud of their rating and truthful-to their demise. I was a middle of the road 9 way back then. I’d occasionally play a 9 just to play a tough game.

I sure created lots of action all over for me. I always told the truth too. “I’m from Begas and don’t have a rating”. The 6’s I’d offer weight to at the beginning. But the 7’s & 8’s would bet more. None of this was hi stakes pool. $100 races was the upper limit. Lots of $20-$50 short race 9B.

I pondered moving there from Vegas a couple times but never did.

That was the best handicap system I ever saw work for any period of time. I haven’t been around for Fargo, but I’d imagine it’s more refined and working as good if not better.

USPPA Gene Stary had a handicap system in the mid 80’s but was too easy to sand bag/ but it kinda worked and was good for weekly tourney’s.

Best
Fatboy <———needs a handicap
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Tulsa had a similar system for years. Ratings were from 4-10 to start but modified to 4-12 'cause the 10's were too good. It went away when Fargo started. Fargo is way better in that it travels well. It was also easy to sandbag.
 
Fatboy said:
That was a great system. And it worked well for a very long time. I’m the early 90’s I used to travel there from Vegas every 4-6 weeks and stay a week.

That system gave people a feel of comfort and they would rely on their rating to gamble. The 7’s & 8’s at the time were easy $ for me at the time.

I’d just ask anyone what their rating was and play as they were proud of their rating and truthful-to their demise. I was a middle of the road 9 way back then. I’d occasionally play a 9 just to play a tough game.

I sure created lots of action all over for me. I always told the truth too. “I’m from Begas and don’t have a rating”. The 6’s I’d offer weight to at the beginning. But the 7’s & 8’s would bet more. None of this was hi stakes pool. $100 races was the upper limit. Lots of $20-$50 short race 9B.

I pondered moving there from Vegas a couple times but never did.

That was the best handicap system I ever saw work for any period of time. I haven’t been around for Fargo, but I’d imagine it’s more refined and working as good if not better.

USPPA Gene Stary had a handicap system in the mid 80’s but was too easy to sand bag/ but it kinda worked and was good for weekly tourney’s.

Best
Fatboy <———needs a handicap
Click to expand...

Think the old Arizona System worked. It was not perfect, but no system of handicapping is perfect.

Most of the Rooms, and Bars cater to the people who spent money.

Think the draw was competition, and fairly reasonable entry fees.

Remember the old OX Bar would have 25-35 entries in their tournament.
 
garczar said:
Tulsa had a similar system for years. Ratings were from 4-10 to start but modified to 4-12 'cause the 1's were too good. It went away when Fargo started. Fargo is way better in that it travels well. It was also easy to sandbag.
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I’ve watched fargo matches online and I’ve seen guys who are 650ish play horrible(just basic pattern play is very weak) I’ve seen guys 650 play a much more experienced level.

Point being is there’s considerable variance among people with the same rating.
 
Fatboy said:
I’ve watched fargo matches online and I’ve seen guys who are 650ish play horrible(just basic pattern play is very weak) I’ve seen guys 650 play a much more experienced level.

Point being is there’s considerable variance among people with the same rating.
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Must have had a bad day. All the 650's i've seen play really well. I can't beat any of them. Maybe in 1p but not rot.
 
thenaturalpoolplayer said:
I don't understand why we have handicap systems at all? If you aren't good enough to beat another player then you should lose. We shouldn't be bending over backwards to try to help you win when you don't deserve it.
Click to expand...
We hear this complaint all the time, yet when there is a true open tournament the guys whining about handicaps don't sign up, they want to play weaker players even so they can steal.
 
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