Oh I do understand the value in random limits.
I also know fargorate has good handicaps.
Fargo Caps = The dumbing down of pool
- Thread starter iusedtoberich
- Start date
I also know fargorate has good handicaps.
And yet there's not a damn thing stopping any of you from running your own tournaments other than the fact your mouth is bigger than your bankroll or balls.
I said what I said
You seem all-in on this so i have a quest: do you have hard #'s on just how all these under599 events played out? Just seems you're making a fairly large assumption as to this 'big edge'. Just curious is all. I know one local guy who varies from from 598-602 and he went to a big under 600 event in Florida and went two and out. I think both losses were to players at least 50pts under him. If there is an 'edge' i just don't see it being all that big.
Fair point. I do not know if the players immediately under the cap are getting the lion's share of the prize fund, in general. I think its a fair assumption though.
My local room just had a 499/599 split. 90 total players. A 580 went for the most in the calcutta (local favorite player, even though was 20 points off the cap).
Before the combined bracket, the top 8 on each bracket was (top 8 each cash, top 4 each calcutta).
499:
1 490
2 489
3 485
4 461
5/6 483
5/6 488
7/8 489
7/8 490
599:
1 580
2 580
3 537
4 596
5/6 553
5/6 577
7/8 588
7/8 594
Top 2 on each individual bracket advanced to the combined bracket.
Combined (there was a 2 game handicap when a 599 played a 499):
1 580
2 490
3 580
4 489
In this particular tournament, the 599 side was a bit more random, and the 499 side was closer to the prediction.
You seem to be implying that less-better players should end up winning more often ?!?
No.
Why do we have handicapped events to begin with? Because if all events were Open, there would be very little participation, as the same few guys would win every week.
What is the purpose of a handicapped event then? Its to increase participation, by making the lower level players have a fair chance to cash/win.
A capped event heavily favors the players immediately under the cap. If the cap is at the usual 599, then the same players are favored over and over.
The better player is not favored because they are better. They are favored because they won the "price is right" game show of being closest to the cap without going over.
No. I'm implying in a handicapped event, the entire field should have roughly equal chances to do well.
Fargo capped events have killed the whole notion of improving ones game In some areas.
In the past, those who strived to play better would compete against stiff competition to try and enter the ranks of A, Open Player, and Professional Player.
Now capped events are just a participation award to those players that never could.
From a promoters point of view, sure. These things fill up quick because all the players that would never do well, now have a chance to compete and win. Not to mention the huge amount of nits that love capped events because for them, it was never about playing well and personal achievement.
But for anyone that plays good, it’s just discriminatory. Nothing new really when I think of all the “He’s a pro” garbage I’ve seen people get hit with at random tournaments in my lifetime. The only difference is now they have a number to label you with.
And on that note, open scratch events in areas that have an assortment of various capped events get a garbage turnout. Personally, I think a field of 32 is a great turnout for a local scratch event, but that’s just me because Philly pool sucks. The more capped events there are, the worse scratch events get.
I think a lot of promoters wouldn’t feel that 32 is a good turnout simply because all these capped events get an insane amount of players and it probably warps their full field mindset.
Not to mention that everyone is in it for themselves and when someone has a scratch event, mysteriously, a couple capped events or capped team total events pop up during the same weekend and the scratch tournament gets canceled cause it had like 8 players signed up.
And I’m not talking about some $500 tournament. I’m talking about scratch tournaments with thousands and thousands of dollars added.
And people just don’t show up. They don’t even try.
But the split tournament that had $500 added? A billion people show up and the calcutta is absolutely ridiculous.
What’s the f*cking point?
In the past, those who strived to play better would compete against stiff competition to try and enter the ranks of A, Open Player, and Professional Player.
Now capped events are just a participation award to those players that never could.
From a promoters point of view, sure. These things fill up quick because all the players that would never do well, now have a chance to compete and win. Not to mention the huge amount of nits that love capped events because for them, it was never about playing well and personal achievement.
But for anyone that plays good, it’s just discriminatory. Nothing new really when I think of all the “He’s a pro” garbage I’ve seen people get hit with at random tournaments in my lifetime. The only difference is now they have a number to label you with.
And on that note, open scratch events in areas that have an assortment of various capped events get a garbage turnout. Personally, I think a field of 32 is a great turnout for a local scratch event, but that’s just me because Philly pool sucks. The more capped events there are, the worse scratch events get.
I think a lot of promoters wouldn’t feel that 32 is a good turnout simply because all these capped events get an insane amount of players and it probably warps their full field mindset.
Not to mention that everyone is in it for themselves and when someone has a scratch event, mysteriously, a couple capped events or capped team total events pop up during the same weekend and the scratch tournament gets canceled cause it had like 8 players signed up.
And I’m not talking about some $500 tournament. I’m talking about scratch tournaments with thousands and thousands of dollars added.
And people just don’t show up. They don’t even try.
But the split tournament that had $500 added? A billion people show up and the calcutta is absolutely ridiculous.
What’s the f*cking point?
Well, based on the statistics, the handicapping failed to achieve that goal.
open events are exactly like thinking a player should go into the pool room and gamble even with anyone that asks him to play. that doesn't happen, so why go and pay money to get in a tournament with much better players than you.
in reality everyone negotiates the proper spot or at least tries to get it. so as said you need to have cutoffs or bracket tournaments or just handicap them.
fargo has figured out already what spot each number must give to another. so just put that in practice and watch the fields grow.
just have every better player using fargo give games on the wire to their opponent.
they have already done it in a,b,c, tournaments with A players giving like the 7 or 8 to lesser players and more to c players. that works. even though most tournaments are still won by the top players.
as they still dont give enough to the weaker players. that has to change.
in reality everyone negotiates the proper spot or at least tries to get it. so as said you need to have cutoffs or bracket tournaments or just handicap them.
fargo has figured out already what spot each number must give to another. so just put that in practice and watch the fields grow.
just have every better player using fargo give games on the wire to their opponent.
they have already done it in a,b,c, tournaments with A players giving like the 7 or 8 to lesser players and more to c players. that works. even though most tournaments are still won by the top players.
as they still dont give enough to the weaker players. that has to change.
They could split off a pro division. Bi annual card cetification, 1984, 5th Reich...
I'd like to see the top 10 Fargo- Filler, gorst, Shane, etc. show up to every event you want to play in and see how you feel about capped events.Fargo capped events have killed the whole notion of improving ones game In some areas.
In the past, those who strived to play better would compete against stiff competition to try and enter the ranks of A, Open Player, and Professional Player.
Now capped events are just a participation award to those players that never could.
From a promoters point of view, sure. These things fill up quick because all the players that would never do well, now have a chance to compete and win. Not to mention the huge amount of nits that love capped events because for them, it was never about playing well and personal achievement.
But for anyone that plays good, it’s just discriminatory. Nothing new really when I think of all the “He’s a pro” garbage I’ve seen people get hit with at random tournaments in my lifetime. The only difference is now they have a number to label you with.
And on that note, open scratch events in areas that have an assortment of various capped events get a garbage turnout. Personally, I think a field of 32 is a great turnout for a local scratch event, but that’s just me because Philly pool sucks. The more capped events there are, the worse scratch events get.
I think a lot of promoters wouldn’t feel that 32 is a good turnout simply because all these capped events get an insane amount of players and it probably warps their full field mindset.
Not to mention that everyone is in it for themselves and when someone has a scratch event, mysteriously, a couple capped events or capped team total events pop up during the same weekend and the scratch tournament gets canceled cause it had like 8 players signed up.
And I’m not talking about some $500 tournament. I’m talking about scratch tournaments with thousands and thousands of dollars added.
And people just don’t show up. They don’t even try.
But the split tournament that had $500 added? A billion people show up and the calcutta is absolutely ridiculous.
What’s the f*cking point?
It's always those people who cry the hardest
Two problems.
There just aren't enough open level players willing to travel to support many open tournaments.
Most lower rated players don't hate their money enough to spend $100+ to go 2 and out tournament after tournament with no reasonable chance to cash.
Disagree?
Run a few open level tournaments over the next month or two and let us know the results.
How many players and how much did the Calcutta bring in...
One other point. Let's be clear. Just because a tournament has a Fargo cap, does not make it a handicapped tournament. The majority of those are open, run what ya brung tournaments with no handicaps applied. By putting a cap, they're simply ensuring a narrower gap between the average player they'll attract and the top players...
There just aren't enough open level players willing to travel to support many open tournaments.
Most lower rated players don't hate their money enough to spend $100+ to go 2 and out tournament after tournament with no reasonable chance to cash.
Disagree?
Run a few open level tournaments over the next month or two and let us know the results.
How many players and how much did the Calcutta bring in...
One other point. Let's be clear. Just because a tournament has a Fargo cap, does not make it a handicapped tournament. The majority of those are open, run what ya brung tournaments with no handicaps applied. By putting a cap, they're simply ensuring a narrower gap between the average player they'll attract and the top players...
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Hmm. I probably meant semi annual certification.
Every once in a blue moon there will be a local <650 event. Even rarer still is the mysterious <675 tourney that may happen once a year. The one I find the most entertaining is the semi annual <730 event. Which is purpose built to exclude the two local Ontario monsters that are north of 740.
My interest in competitive play has diminished over the last 6mths or so. So I can sneak in to the <675. On the rare instance it pops up and assuming I have no alternative life during the corresponding weekend.
Anyways, caps aren't dumb. Cater to the largest demographic. Pool for the shortstop has always been a no man's land. Fargo chances nothing other than highlighting those who have TD buddies that let them poach events below their pay grade
My interest in competitive play has diminished over the last 6mths or so. So I can sneak in to the <675. On the rare instance it pops up and assuming I have no alternative life during the corresponding weekend.
Anyways, caps aren't dumb. Cater to the largest demographic. Pool for the shortstop has always been a no man's land. Fargo chances nothing other than highlighting those who have TD buddies that let them poach events below their pay grade
You’d get shitty turnouts because there’s only 870 players in the entire country with Fargo’s above 675. That’s would be 17 guys per state if the distribution was even…but in reality about 5 states contribute about half of that 870.
I'm not following. What statistics are you referring to? Which handicapping method are you referring to?
Yes, that's all good. Those events don't exclude anyone, and as you said, fargo has the handicap about perfected. The "hot" handicap is the one that is closest to a 50/50 proposition each match, but it always favors the higher rated player (per Mike P).
The thing is these capped events all play even. So the cap is excluding all the good players, but at the same time, not giving any chance to the very weak players. So what's the point?
Your right. If you live in a city with one or two Pool Halls then it might be tough, but in Texas theres a tournamnet every night and on Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday theres three of four to choose from.
Running tournaments is work. No one does it just out of the kindness of their heart. Tournament directors create the parameters for a tournament in order maximize their own compensation for running the tournament. And if they believe that having capped tournaments will get more players, and thus more compensation for them, than they will do so.