No.
Fargo Rating
- Thread starter BarTableMan
- Start date
Three different screen shots I took of my profile on the app. (Because there's no means to track the changes otherwise)
Fargo goes down a point without play, (update ripple). Note the lack of change in games played. ...and then drops a few after a bad outing at a local tourney
No. A Player that I played a few years ago was a 640ish player and then he had a fall off a ladder and injured himself pretty severely and had to take time off. He came back and within a pretty short amount of time was under 600.
You might be thinking of APA ratings. If you achieve a high rating (called Skill Level), especially at a national event, I think it is nearly impossible for your rating to be reduced without APA Central doing something special.
As mentioned by many, your FargoRate rating is really based on your performance and if your performance declines, so does your rating.
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Do you know why they don't send in data? Have you let them know that you would like them to? I think it doesn't cost anything to send in data, but I could be wrong.
It seems to me this was all ginned up to promote more league play for the rooms to lock average to below players in every night, because it takes many games played to get an established FR. JMPO.
For over 125 years in Caroms, it's really Simple. Points scored against number of innings!
I can, my FR goes up sometimes and it goes down sometimes, FR is not the same as APA.
I think the reason for FR was more directed at tournament play so you didnt have high level players stealing against low level players. Shooters that I know only keep an eye on their FR number if they shoot tournaments, for league the FR number means little to nothing.
How games played or not played would the average be to go down/up 20 points?
A TD here (not CA anymore) told me that the turnout suffers if they report to FR because a lot of players like to fly under the radar. He also said he's sick of it and will be reporting everything from now on.
I'm not entirely sure I understand your question but to take an extreme example. If I play someone in a tournament who has my exact rating, say 600. And I beat him. Then he goes out the next week and wins a tournament full of killers and performs at a 750 - his rating will go up. Now mine will go up too because I beat him. So maybe that will bump him to 625 (again, just illustrating, not accurate numbers) which will correspondingly bump me to maybe 605. (he beat FR 700 players and I beat a FR 625 player). If he keeps on winning and raising his skill level he'll still show up on my history as me having beaten him. The effect will diminish over time, especially if I keep performing at the same level.
I have not had a game entered in FR since 2019 and my FR still fluctuates by a point or two here and there.
I really could not answer that. How your FR moves either way depends on how good your opponent is. Winning games you are not supposed to win I believe has a bigger bearing than winning against someone you are evenly matched with. I don't know the algorithms for FR, you would need to talk to Mike Page about that. He frequents these forums.
Not sure of the exact reason why, either laziness or complaints I assume.
Nope your wrong. The system is great as it gives players and teams of players a chance to be competitive against stronger teams and players, which keeps them interested in the game and trying to improve. There are lots of players taking lessons from Hillbilly, Alex Calderon, Jeremy Jones and Reberto Gomez, all based on feeling that if they can improve their game and up thier Fargo Rate they can start competing at a higher level.
And there are plenty of advanced players in the league who play in tournaments and Gamble and are far from average, they can hold thier own with anybody.
The Fargo Rate just like APA is a great way to promote Pool at every level, it doesn't have to be perfect, as long as it works for 90 percent of the players and it does.
As already posted... the swing in your fargo rating will depend on the rating of your opponents. However there are more factors in play. So you could in theory play an infinite amount of games and never have your fargo move. This isn't because you have been "locked in", but because you're performance has been at the expected level of your current rating.
Food for thought.... I have won small local tourneys and had my rating drop. Fargo rating is based on the rack (game), not the results of a set or tournament. In the tournament I won, I did not beat my opponents at the expected rate, so I under performed. My fargo was adjusted because I played enough subpar games to have it effect the math.
The amount of adjustment is also relative to how many games you have in the system. At near 900games my fargo can still move a small handful of pts in either direction based on play within a single reporting event. However someone like SVB who has >20k games likely wouldn't shift a point regardless of his play in a small tourney.
Lastly, if it hasn't already been mentioned, your reported results are weighted differently in the math depending on time frame. For example if I played 700 speed in the first two years of 4 in the system, and 600 spd in the second 2 years. My fargo wouldn't be 650 which would be the avg. It would be closer to 600. This is because the system considers the most recent performance (@600) more important that the first two years (@700). I won't pretend to know the math, and my example is completely fabricated for sake of simplistic explanation.
It's surprising how quickly you can build up games. 200 is a very low number. Think a 16 player board, single knockout, race to 7. You could in theory play 52 racks and still win/lose that event in the final.
Fargo isn't much more elaborate in essence. Racks won/lost against spd of opponents. Now they sprinkle in some extras that make it a more viable system. Like the heavier weighting of more recent results, and the ripple effect on your old opponent's future results. It's the best thing since sliced bread in the pool skill ranking world.
I personally have never considered Fargo a "handicapping system". It's a rating system that can be used to determine a fair match if the opponents are not equal in skill. Why is it different...?..., because 'opinion' is not a variable in the math.
For someone that has suffered through decades of purely subjective 'true handicapping' methods like the letter system or SL numbers. Fargo's pure math based method is breath of fresh air.
My question here would be for every 100 point difference on Fargo ratings - what is the win probability of the lesser player in a race to 7 games - 8. 9, or 10 ball - with no spot?
From the app...
So on a race to 7. You would expect the player with 100 less pts to reach either 4 if the 700 player was playing strong. 7 if they were playing their normal spd, and finally 5 again if the 700 player was struggling. Looks like it's one of those examples where there's a fine line between normal and weak.
With 100-point gap, lower player expected to win 1 in 10
200-point gap, lower player expected to win not quite 1 in 100.