# Fargo Ratings thoughts

#### Sedog

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I would like to express my concerns (thoughts) about the Fargo ratings.
Before I go on, I would like to let everyone know that Mike Page has tried to allay my concerns thru several PMs.
As I understand it, the rating do not become "established" until 200 games are played. In my league, Uspl 9 ball, we have 16 teams and play 16 weeks with no byes. This would give me approx. 72 games per season, so in order to become an established player with a stable rating I would have to play for 2.7 seasons to become established.
At this point I have 39 games played so I guess my rating is very erratic. For example I played a player whose rating was the same as mine, 432, our race was to 45. I won by 17 points. My rating dropped to 418 and my opponents rating dropped to 396, and he had more game played than me.
I am assuming this formula has been well thought out but, it seems to me that the ratings for races cannot be the least bit "fair" when they vary so erratically.
Also, we cannot see the formula for calculating the ratings.
Am I way off base here? What are your thoughts?

#### tucson9ball

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm assuming that by using "points", you mean balls pocketed?
Fargo is based on games won/loss
If you beat a guy that has the same rating as yourself, it would depend on the game count whether your rating will go up/down.
For example: I'm a 664, if I play somebody rated within 10 points of me in a race to 9, it would probably be an even race. If I was to win 9/8 my rating would stay the same, if I win 9/1, my rating will go up. Or if I lose 9/1, my rating will go down.
It doesn't matter if you run the table, if you dog the 9 and lose, that game is good for your opponent. Fargo doesn't keep track of balls pocketed...

#### tucson9ball

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Oh, another way to get games in the system is to play local tournaments. It's very easy for a tournament director to download the software to connect to Fargo. Once downloaded, you simply fill in the scores of each match and when the tourney is finalized the info is sent to Fargo.
I have over 1200 games in Fargo in about 1.5 years.

Silver Member
What software?

#### sbpoolleague

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Oh, another way to get games in the system is to play local tournaments. It's very easy for a tournament director to download the software to connect to Fargo. Once downloaded, you simply fill in the scores of each match and when the tourney is finalized the info is sent to Fargo.
I have over 1200 games in Fargo in about 1.5 years.

Software? What software?

#### cleary

##### Honestly, I'm a liar.
Silver Member
Software? What software?

It's an iPhone app called Grinder. Download it.

#### Sedog

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I should have said 8 teams not 16.
Also, it is points as the 9 ball counts as 14 when you win the game.

#### Danimal

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's an iPhone app called Grinder. Download it.

My friend d/l'd it and now he's getting all these strange proposals to match up.

Hey what gives?!?

#### Bob Jewett

##### AZB Osmium Member
Silver Member
My friend d/l'd it and now he's getting all these strange proposals to match up.

Hey what gives?!?
He should ask for the 7-out.:wink:

Silver Member
I won 3 to 1.

#### Icon of Sin

##### I can't fold, I need gold. I re-up and reload...
Silver Member
IMO, it might be a great rating system but it's a completely ridiculous name and really hard to take serious.

Give it a name that can be universal to pool or even pool related, not named after a town in ND.

#### BRussell

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I would like to express my concerns (thoughts) about the Fargo ratings.
Before I go on, I would like to let everyone know that Mike Page has tried to allay my concerns thru several PMs.
As I understand it, the rating do not become "established" until 200 games are played. In my league, Uspl 9 ball, we have 16 teams and play 16 weeks with no byes. This would give me approx. 72 games per season, so in order to become an established player with a stable rating I would have to play for 2.7 seasons to become established.
At this point I have 39 games played so I guess my rating is very erratic. For example I played a player whose rating was the same as mine, 432, our race was to 45. I won by 17 points. My rating dropped to 418 and my opponents rating dropped to 396, and he had more game played than me.
Both of your ratings did not go down as a direct results of your one match - that wouldn't make sense. It would have been because the ratings of other players that the two of you had played in the past were adjusted.

I am assuming this formula has been well thought out but, it seems to me that the ratings for races cannot be the least bit "fair" when they vary so erratically.
Also, we cannot see the formula for calculating the ratings.
Am I way off base here? What are your thoughts?
The formula is not a secret, it just wouldn't make sense to anyone. It's an Elo system which are very widely used in sports and chess (where they started) and video games etc. One thing that's different about this Fargo rating compared to many Elo ratings is that everyone's scores are re-calculated daily, so the results can change in surprising ways. I don't understand the math, but I know that it is the mathematically optimal way of assigning numbers to reflect wins and losses.

#### flyrv9

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was watching a match on Youtube the other night between Rodney Morris and SVB. On the bottom of the screen along with the score was the fargo rating for each player. It changed after each game.

#### AtLarge

##### AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... we ... play 16 weeks with no byes. This would give me approx. 72 games per season ...

In 16 weeks you play only 72 games, i.e., an average of just 4½ games of 9-Ball a week?

#### BRussell

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In 16 weeks you play only 72 games, i.e., an average of just 4½ games of 9-Ball a week?
I would think that would be a pretty typical once-a-week league night, no? But later he corrected it to 8 teams, not 16, so maybe that changes his count.

#### robsnotes4u

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was watching a match on Youtube the other night between Rodney Morris and SVB. On the bottom of the screen along with the score was the fargo rating for each player. It changed after each game.

Which match is it?

I have seen the odds of winning change but not the FargoRate.

Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums

Silver Member

#### pocket

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
IMO, it might be a great rating system but it's a completely ridiculous name and really hard to take serious.

Give it a name that can be universal to pool or even pool related, not named after a town in ND.

Yes. The name. Destined to fail. Sorry man that's just an odd take. Do you know anyone who doesn't recognize or have heard of the company "Google". It's the product that will win or lose the day, not what they choose to name it.

#### mikepage

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
IMO, it might be a great rating system but it's a completely ridiculous name and really hard to take serious.

Give it a name that can be universal to pool or even pool related, not named after a town in ND.

lol.... I just can't stop thinking of Belgium when I use a Duffel bag or eat Brussels sprouts. Or who can watch a game of Rugby without thinking of that high school in the UK....

#### mikepage

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I would like to express my concerns (thoughts) about the Fargo ratings.
Before I go on, I would like to let everyone know that Mike Page has tried to allay my concerns thru several PMs.
As I understand it, the rating do not become "established" until 200 games are played. In my league, Uspl 9 ball, we have 16 teams and play 16 weeks with no byes. This would give me approx. 72 games per season, so in order to become an established player with a stable rating I would have to play for 2.7 seasons to become established.
At this point I have 39 games played so I guess my rating is very erratic. For example I played a player whose rating was the same as mine, 432, our race was to 45. I won by 17 points. My rating dropped to 418 and my opponents rating dropped to 396, and he had more game played than me.
I am assuming this formula has been well thought out but, it seems to me that the ratings for races cannot be the least bit "fair" when they vary so erratically.
Also, we cannot see the formula for calculating the ratings.
Am I way off base here? What are your thoughts?

Don -- Your rating becomes better and better the more games it is based upon. When we corresponded a few weeks ago you had 80 games in the system. Now you have 90. So you are nearly halfway to being established, and all your games are from five months of league play. Here is our conversation with the names removed. Your 90 games are played at 391-speed. That is the level of performance. You also have a starter rating of 450. At this point each carries similar weight and the rating you see is 424.

#### Attachments

• sedog.jpg
213.6 KB · Views: 475