Fargo

nicksaint26

nicksaint26

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'll start by saying I am a fan of fargo and think it has potential to be great. However I do have a major problem with how it is currently set up. I'm only a C player and I haven't played pool since my twin brother passed away almost 2 years ago. In that time where I haven't picked up a cue my fargo went from a 460 to a 480. My guess is players I beat years ago have improved so they raised my ranking. This makes absolutely no sense to me and in my opinion is a major flaw with the system. Can someone explain how this makes sense as I just don't get it. Thanks
 
MattPoland said:
Do you have 200 games in the system?


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Not yet I have a robustness of 90. I just checked and now I'm a 484 so it's still going up lol. I guess even though I haven't played in years I'm a better player now because people I beat years ago are better? These players have also been active since I stopped playing. So because they have improved I must have too even though I haven't picked up a cue in years? Weird
 
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nicksaint26 said:
Not yet I have a robustness of 90. I just checked and now I'm a 484 so it's still going up lol. I guess even though I haven't played in years I'm a better player now because people I beat years ago are better? These players have also been active since I stopped playing. So because they have improved I must have too even though I haven't picked up a cue in years? Weird
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FargoRate has no idea what you have been doing or how your game has changed in the past two years. Maybe you have been practicing on your home table. The safest thing to assume is that your game is the same against the players you have played as it was when you played them. FargoRate is not an absolute rating; it is a relative rating against the people you have played.
 
nicksaint26 said:
Not yet I have a robustness of 90. I just checked and now I'm a 484 so it's still going up lol. I guess even though I haven't played in years I'm a better player now because people I beat years ago are better? These players have also been active since I stopped playing. So because they have improved I must have too even though I haven't picked up a cue in years? Weird
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COMMENT
With FargoRating they try to clarify that as far as they are concerned, if you have less than 200 games in then you don't have a rating. You should treat it that way too.

DETAIL
FargoRate = 200 games
Starter Rating = Something someone made up and put in the system
Preliminary Rating = A blend of your starter rating and your initial results while under 200 games.

Rating can change based on what the system knows about you, about the players you've played, the players they've played, and so forth. Fargo Ratings can change due to that, but only in minor increments. Preliminary Ratings can change wildly...it's one of the reason they don't consider Preliminary Ratings to be actual ratings and it's an incentive for you to get actual games into the system.

It's worth knowing how a starter rating works. When you have zero games in the system, it treats it like you have 200 fake games where you performed at that starter rating level. When you have 50 real games in the system, it treats it like you have 50 real games at your actual performance level + 150 fake games in the system at your starter rating level. When you have 200 real games in the system, it treats it like you have 200 real games at your actual performance level + 0 fake games in the system at your starter rating level.

So the first thing to be aware of is that league operators and tournament directors can change your starter rating. And that change can cause the wildest shifts in your rating. Another thing that can cause wild shifts is not because your opponents got better, so much as it learned more about your opponents. If you're in a region that had very little games in the system then but today have a lot more games loaded, it'll see not just your ratings shift a lot but it will cause your rating to shift too. Not because it thinks people got better...but because it today knows more about those players.

Let's be honest, most players don't improve by significant amounts over time. Most players stay the same skill level over decades...and then a handful of players skyrocket up major jumps in skill over very short periods of time because they drastically changed their habits in terms of practice and competition. Most people don't change their habits.
 
MattPoland said:
COMMENT
With FargoRating they try to clarify that as far as they are concerned, if you have less than 200 games in then you don't have a rating. You should treat it that way too.

DETAIL
FargoRate = 200 games
Starter Rating = Something someone made up and put in the system
Preliminary Rating = A blend of your starter rating and your initial results while under 200 games.

Rating can change based on what the system knows about you, about the players you've played, the players they've played, and so forth. Fargo Ratings can change due to that, but only in minor increments. Preliminary Ratings can change wildly...it's one of the reason they don't consider Preliminary Ratings to be actual ratings and it's an incentive for you to get actual games into the system.

It's worth knowing how a starter rating works. When you have zero games in the system, it treats it like you have 200 fake games where you performed at that starter rating level. When you have 50 real games in the system, it treats it like you have 50 real games at your actual performance level + 150 fake games in the system at your starter rating level. When you have 200 real games in the system, it treats it like you have 200 real games at your actual performance level + 0 fake games in the system at your starter rating level.

So the first thing to be aware of is that league operators and tournament directors can change your starter rating. And that change can cause the wildest shifts in your rating. Another thing that can cause wild shifts is not because your opponents got better, so much as it learned more about your opponents. If you're in a region that had very little games in the system then but today have a lot more games loaded, it'll see not just your ratings shift a lot but it will cause your rating to shift too. Not because it thinks people got better...but because it today knows more about those players.

Let's be honest, most players don't improve by significant amounts over time. Most players stay the same skill level over decades...and then a handful of players skyrocket up major jumps in skill over very short periods of time because they drastically changed their habits in terms of practice and competition. Most people don't change their habits.
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That helps a lot, thank you. Your right too, when I lived back east they didn't use fargo a lot but now they do. Now I live in Vegas and I haven't played in years so I thought it was funny my fargo improved. But what you say about fargo knowing more about my opponents makes sense.
I'm thinking of starting back up and want to get in a league that will get my game count up. Thanks again!
 
nicksaint26 said:
Not yet I have a robustness of 90. I just checked and now I'm a 484 so it's still going up lol. I guess even though I haven't played in years I'm a better player now because people I beat years ago are better? These players have also been active since I stopped playing. So because they have improved I must have too even though I haven't picked up a cue in years? Weird
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A 20 pt change out of 460 is not even a 5% difference, how well you play vary more than that rack to rack. You need to play a bunch of current games in order to keep a current rating.
 
nicksaint26 said:
I'll start by saying I am a fan of fargo and think it has potential to be great. However I do have a major problem with how it is currently set up. I'm only a C player and I haven't played pool since my twin brother passed away almost 2 years ago. In that time where I haven't picked up a cue my fargo went from a 460 to a 480. My guess is players I beat years ago have improved so they raised my ranking. This makes absolutely no sense to me and in my opinion is a major flaw with the system. Can someone explain how this makes sense as I just don't get it. Thanks
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Couple things Nick.

First, FargoRate's tentative estimate of your speed is not 480. It is 518. It is just that one of the tours you played in (Ride the 9 or New England 9-Ball Series) had a guess that you play around 456 speed. The 480 you see is a weighted blend of these two estimates.

When someone like you has a rating based on only 90 games, you can think of it as being fuzzy and diffuse like a flood light on the wall. And it is diffuse for two reasons. First, there are only 90 games. The second is the opponents themselves are fuzzy, sometimes extremely fuzzy. What if you had a 9-8 match against an opponent with 17 games in the system. That means he's played nobody else and really tells nothing about you.

So now ANYTHING he does is going to give after-the-fact information about you. The longer in the future the less attention we pay.
 
Is fargo the game linked by any means with fargo rate? If I'm at AA level with 200 points playing 10 games of random phase+rotation phases, then where does that put me in fargo rate, or are they just separate things?
 
nicksaint26 said:
That helps a lot, thank you. Your right too, when I lived back east they didn't use fargo a lot but now they do. Now I live in Vegas and I haven't played in years so I thought it was funny my fargo improved. But what you say about fargo knowing more about my opponents makes sense.
I'm thinking of starting back up and want to get in a league that will get my game count up. Thanks again!
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Hey Nick
All you have to do is move back here for a while. We have the most honest Promotors and Tournament director's going. They'll square you away.
 
Nick,

Once you begin playing again your score will adjust to it's true level, hopefully in short order
 
I played in a tournament recently, where I had a total of 15 games played over 3 matches. It looks like my robustness only went up 4 games. Is it normal to not have all games from a tournament to be included?
 
rharm said:
I played in a tournament recently, where I had a total of 15 games played over 3 matches. It looks like my robustness only went up 4 games. Is it normal to not have all games from a tournament to be included?
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No, not normal.

Are you able to post a link to the bracket?
 
I played in a tournament last year and I ask the TD if he turned in the scores to Fargo. He said some I do most of them some guys don’t want theirs turned in so I don’t submit them. The guy who won the tournament still has 0 games in the system.
 
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