FargoRate?

[fastone371]

The number one sandbagging complaint in the APA is at tournaments. In the beginning I didn't put much thought into it but then Mike (FR) said something a while back that caught my attention (and I mentioned it earlier in this thread) - a player can/will play 50 points above/below their rating. You don't think the APA players are psyched about playing in Vegas and work their ass off? During the rest of the year they're just banging balls and having fun but if they're playing a tournament, even local, they'll practice their ass off (if they want to win).

So, is there sandbagging, yep, is it rampant - not in the APA and I doubt it's "rampant" anywhere, but IMHO, it is more likely to happen in a FR league. In the APA you're in it for the fun and a small chance at a free trip to Vegas, in FR, it's a much more personally driven goal - to win money

I dont know where the leagues are where players make money but from what I have heard is that those who make money are the APA LO's. We dont have any APA leagues around here and from what I have heard about APA that is a good thing.

 

[justadub]

I dont know where the leagues are where players make money but from what I have heard is that those who make money are the APA LO's. We dont have any APA leagues around here and from what I have heard about APA that is a good thing.

Our APA division has payouts for the four playoff teams each session. Not huge, but actual cash money. I realize that not all APA territories do that, but its not unheard of, either.

That having been said, APA isn't set up to be a money league. If that's what you're looking for, of course it isn't for you. Plenty of us do enjoy it.

All of which has nothing to do with the original topic. I replied merely to clarify the points brought up by someone else. As I mentioned before, I'm really enjoying the development of FargoRate, I think its really a positive for pool in general.

 

[Chili Palmer]

I dont know where the leagues are where players make money but from what I have heard is that those who make money are the APA LO's. We dont have any APA leagues around here and from what I have heard about APA that is a good thing.

I was trying to infer that those who generally play FR rated leagues also play for cash and therefore are more than willing to tank in league to keep their FR down

And you heard wrong. APA is well run league, any word you heard otherwise is directly related to the LO.

 

[Chili Palmer]

Our APA division has payouts for the four playoff teams each session. Not huge, but actual cash money. I realize that not all APA territories do that, but its not unheard of, either.

That having been said, APA isn't set up to be a money league. If that's what you're looking for, of course it isn't for you. Plenty of us do enjoy it.

All of which has nothing to do with the original topic. I replied merely to clarify the points brought up by someone else. As I mentioned before, I'm really enjoying the development of FargoRate, I think its really a positive for pool in general.

Agreed, APA is THE entry level league, and they have juniors as well, and without people joining it and subsequently getting better and moving to FR rated leagues, there would be far fewer pool players in this country.

I get a kick out the slack thrown at APA.

 

[telinoz]

We have been using Salotto more and more to have more games than the few played on league nights. More data makes FargoRate give better results.
Challenge matches, money applied = People play their best.
Leagues, over a longer time frame each season are easier to sandbag for cheats IMO.

We will also be using Salotto for tournaments as well.
One day, they will make a tournament App / website that works like Challonge or Cuescore but with direct FargoRate link for instant results.

Nothing worse than manual submission to Fargo team as it can take weeks if not months to get data in from association or private events.
During that time, a player with good results might be playing league or some other event on the wrong rating.
Live updates, that issue goes away.

One day maybe all the leagues around the World just integrate with Fargorate.
First time there has been a global system like this, which is long overdue.

 

[jtompilot]

The number one sandbagging complaint in the APA is at tournaments. In the beginning I didn't put much thought into it but then Mike (FR) said something a while back that caught my attention (and I mentioned it earlier in this thread) - a player can/will play 50 points above/below their rating. You don't think the APA players are psyched about playing in Vegas and work their ass off? During the rest of the year they're just banging balls and having fun but if they're playing a tournament, even local, they'll practice their ass off (if they want to win).

So, is there sandbagging, yep, is it rampant - not in the APA and I doubt it's "rampant" anywhere, but IMHO, it is more likely to happen in a FR league. In the APA you're in it for the fun and a small chance at a free trip to Vegas, in FR, it's a much more personally driven goal - to win money

Way back in the old days I joined an APA league. I quicky became a 6 and shortly after a 7. One day I had to play a 5 who gives me the 8 gambling and I never won. When I complained to the Bar Manager he said "if you would have joined my team, I'd make sure you stayed a 5". I quit APA after the season ended.

 

[Chili Palmer]

We have been using Salotto more and more to have more games than the few played on league nights. More data makes FargoRate give better results.
Challenge matches, money applied = People play their best.
Leagues, over a longer time frame each season are easier to sandbag for cheats IMO.

We will also be using Salotto for tournaments as well.
One day, they will make a tournament App / website that works like Challonge or Cuescore but with direct FargoRate link for instant results.

Nothing worse than manual submission to Fargo team as it can take weeks if not months to get data in from association or private events.
During that time, a player with good results might be playing league or some other event on the wrong rating.
Live updates, that issue goes away.

One day maybe all the leagues around the World just integrate with Fargorate.
First time there has been a global system like this, which is long overdue.

We tried integrating with FR earlier this year in a league I was involved in, I'll leave it at that.

We also tried working with Salotto, great people and great concept, but their pricing was way out of control for what we were looking to do.

 

[AF pool guy]

We have been using Salotto more and more to have more games than the few played on league nights. More data makes FargoRate give better results.
Challenge matches, money applied = People play their best.
Leagues, over a longer time frame each season are easier to sandbag for cheats IMO.

We will also be using Salotto for tournaments as well.
One day, they will make a tournament App / website that works like Challonge or Cuescore but with direct FargoRate link for instant results.

Nothing worse than manual submission to Fargo team as it can take weeks if not months to get data in from association or private events.
During that time, a player with good results might be playing league or some other event on the wrong rating.
Live updates, that issue goes away.

One day maybe all the leagues around the World just integrate with Fargorate.
First time there has been a global system like this, which is long overdue.

Have you checked out DigitalPool.com? Can pull ratings right from the Fargo database and scores are updated in a few days. Plus it can give a tournament performance rate.


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[Chili Palmer]

Have you checked out DigitalPool.com? Can pull ratings right from the Fargo database and scores are updated in a few days. Plus it can give a tournament performance rate.


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The scores are only updated when a LO enters them into the system. I can't confirm how they are handled after that, I just know the LO locally would take at least a month to enter them.

 

[jtompilot]

Have you checked out DigitalPool.com? Can pull ratings right from the Fargo database and scores are updated in a few days. Plus it can give a tournament performance rate.


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I've been to their web site plenty of times and registered. They dont list the four tournaments that went into my FargoRate or the 1P tournaments that used them.

 

[DJKeys]

Do the LOs send all the score sheets to the League Office? I'm guessing they retain no more than two years of match data if that.

But a rough calculation suggests that they have about 10,000,000 games per year.

In my league here in Vegas, they went to all electronic scoring. They use an app called BCAPL Scorer which the captains of the teams input the data for the matchups. Each players Fargo rating is saved with the player's name. After entering the lineup, it calculates the handicaps and at the end of the night's matchup updates the league stats in real time, including the Fargo ratings. No paper sheets anymore, which is great for the League Ops. Seems to work very well-

-dj

 

[mikepage]

In my league here in Vegas, they went to all electronic scoring. They use an app called BCAPL Scorer which the captains of the teams input the data for the matchups. Each players Fargo rating is saved with the player's name. After entering the lineup, it calculates the handicaps and at the end of the night's matchup updates the league stats in real time, including the Fargo ratings. No paper sheets anymore, which is great for the League Ops. Seems to work very well-

-dj

I am a player in the 10th week of a 10-team division using the scoring APP for the first time. Because it was new, the LO gave everybody the option to score electronically or using paper. Since 3 weeks in, every match has been scored electronically.

That means for our Thursday night league, we finish our match at 10pm, belly up to the bar or start a ring game, and by 10:30 pm the FargoRate App on our phones shows ALL standings updated for the division. Those games are in FargoRate at that point and are part of the daily optimization that starts an hour or so later and finishes about 6 hours later. So we wake up to updated ratings.

 

[fastone371]

Agreed, APA is THE entry level league, and they have juniors as well, and without people joining it and subsequently getting better and moving to FR rated leagues, there would be far fewer pool players in this country.

I get a kick out the slack thrown at APA.

Leagues and tournaments are not necessarily "Fargorate" leagues, there are just leagues and tournaments that report or dont report to Fargo. I play in a WSPA league that reports to Fargo, I have also played in BCAPL/CSI leagues that report. The one thing I have never seen is people sandbagging, I'm not saying it doesn't happen but I have never seen it. To a man in our leagues everyone who goes to the table wants and tries to win.

 

[Chili Palmer]

Leagues and tournaments are not necessarily "Fargorate" leagues, there are just leagues and tournaments that report or dont report to Fargo. I play in a WSPA league that reports to Fargo, I have also played in BCAPL/CSI leagues that report. The one thing I have never seen is people sandbagging, I'm not saying it doesn't happen but I have never seen it. To a man in our leagues everyone who goes to the table wants and tries to win.

Agreed, I'm not trying to infer that an FR league/tourney is an actual FR managed thing but, the fact a simple little league or tournament reports to FR can/is used as a tool to keep your FR down so when you go hunt down that high stakes cash game you can say "but my FR is only 600"

Trust me, it happens.

 

[telinoz]

We tried integrating with FR earlier this year in a league I was involved in, I'll leave it at that.

We also tried working with Salotto, great people and great concept, but their pricing was way out of control for what we were looking to do.

We play long races to make the cost worth it. Race to 11 minimum.

 

[Chili Palmer]

We play long races to make the cost worth it. Race to 11 minimum.

And if you're (the league) paying for those costs while trying to keep the players overall fees to a minimum it's simply not a viable option. Again, not knocking Salotto, I've spoken with them many times and always had a great experience and I think they have a great idea and have executed it well, their model simply didn't align with ours.

 

[hang-the-9]

Way back in the old days I joined an APA league. I quicky became a 6 and shortly after a 7. One day I had to play a 5 who gives me the 8 gambling and I never won. When I complained to the Bar Manager he said "if you would have joined my team, I'd make sure you stayed a 5". I quit APA after the season ended.

And yet the APA is all "we dunno know whut u mean... we honest relly! U ned to report it if u know this is odd we no have cheeters in our league.. nooo u wrong".

I did my stint in a league this past session (TAP not APA), not going to deal with the stupidity of it anymore unless it's the USAPL league where is a lot less cheating going on.

 

[skip100]

APA ratings are vastly easier to sandbag because they are a function of inputs (innings) which are disconnected from the result of the game.

To sandbag in BCA/Fargo, you have to actually lose your game/match. In APA you can stay a 5 by playing concealed safeties that inflate your innings (or simply play against a team that doesn't mark safeties, of which there are many). Easy peasy, especially against lower-level players.

 

[hang-the-9]

APA ratings are vastly easier to sandbag because they are a function of inputs (innings) which are disconnected from the result of the game.

To sandbag in BCA/Fargo, you have to actually lose your game/match. In APA you can stay a 5 by playing concealed safeties that inflate your innings (or simply play against a team that doesn't mark safeties, of which there are many). Easy peasy, especially against lower-level players.

TAP is a bit easy to manipulate also since they use missed shots/safeties/innings to calculate handicaps even though they don't use a point per ball system like APA does. I find it funny that the "systems" think that playing a called safe vs just missing is a sign of a good player, so calling a safe you are upping your skill level some. It's almost like the places that think just because you are a girl player that it automatically means you are not as good and need a shorter race or a handicap vs the men LOL The two things are not connected much.

 

[AF pool guy]

I've been to their web site plenty of times and registered. They dont list the four tournaments that went into my FargoRate or the 1P tournaments that used them.

Point your tournament director at it. The one we’ve got is all over it. I’ve gotten over 300 games in the system in 6 months playing one tournament a week.


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