Fear of Feel

[Neil]

This is a repost. I received a private message telling me I am crazy if I have to think about a hanger. I guess he never missed a hanger, or ball in hand like Mika and Efren have.
Ok call me crazy, better yet, I admit to crazy.

There could be a lot to think about on one shot or it could be just a simple 1 ft stop shot. You better think each and every one of them through completely, a hanger requires thought.

It's he who computes these thoughts quickly that remains even.

If Shane plays a shot with extreme spin 4 rails through traffic for position or a possible safe, maybe a 2 way shot, and tells you he didn't think about it....Bullcrap...He processes the info quickly, so quickly that he may have looked at 3 other options before his choice.

AZB is famous for making the game complicated. Recognize your options or choices and select. Once you have decided, don't look back, just execute. Tunnel vision doesn’t work on a pool table.

You must compute the info quickly otherwise prepare for the state mental institution.

I have two words to say about not thinking………Bullcrap

You must compute before you shoot, do it quick or sit on your stick looking like Gilbert Gottfried.

Sincerely: SS

Nice post! Hangers should always be given the proper attention to detail. Off every hanger, you should be striving for exact position play.

As for the forums making things complicated...yes and no. It seems that way at times. But, when describing what is happening, it takes a lot of words usually. Like you stated, the actual time spent thinking at the table is only seconds. How long does it take to look at a shot, see where the stun line goes, and now that you need to go one diamond farther, so you add one tip english? A second or two at most. It not even really so much a truly conscious thought, although one is aware of the thought.

Some on here think that knowing what to do equates to standing forever over a shot going over different options. That is true on the training table, not on the game table. On the game table, things just flow.

 

[336Robin]

Hangers

Nice post! Hangers should always be given the proper attention to detail. Off every hanger, you should be striving for exact position play.

As for the forums making things complicated...yes and no. It seems that way at times. But, when describing what is happening, it takes a lot of words usually. Like you stated, the actual time spent thinking at the table is only seconds. How long does it take to look at a shot, see where the stun line goes, and now that you need to go one diamond farther, so you add one tip english? A second or two at most. It not even really so much a truly conscious thought, although one is aware of the thought.

Some on here think that knowing what to do equates to standing forever over a shot going over different options. That is true on the training table, not on the game table. On the game table, things just flow.

I concur with the statement in Blue. A really good player once told that when he learned the guy that taught him would make him shoot hangers because the come up a lot when people miss and he made him put his cue ball in as many places as he possibly could on the table so when it came time, he would know exactly how to do it.

I wish I could say Ive done that drill but not near enough.

 

[CJ Wiley]

the '3 Part Pocket Zone', a big advantage, especially on tight equipment.

Robin,

Did I waste time in my other reply?

Were you asking just about TOI?

If so, I can tell you what I do with it, but since CJ has posted, perhaps you'd rather hear it straight from him.

Like I said in my PS, I just got your book. I'll be sending you a PM soon.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

Anytime we cue the ball to the inside it creates and angle, with or without "squirt". The deflection allows us to expand the margin of error in the pocket zone by approaching it to the inside (of the pocket).....the more your tip goes inside, the more the ball will cut to the same direction (right cuts to the right, left cuts to the left).

This is so strong because it gives the player a way to calibrate their shots to the center of the pocket, and continue to throughout a match or long session.

This is how we create the '3 Part Pocket Zone', a big advantage, especially on tight equipment.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Anytime we cue the ball to the inside it creates and angle, with or without "squirt". The deflection allows us...

Squirt is deflection.

pj
chgo

 

[cfrandy]

Well if I need to explain it, maybe you should stick to just walking.

You cannot explain it. Fact is, if you had to "think" about breathing...you would be dead!
The conscious mind does NOT multitask without losing concentration on each task, because the conscious mind is only capable of ONE task! The unconscious mind has a infinite capacity of tasking. You simply have to "wire" the circuitry for each task, then completing the task becomes instinctive...you DON'T have to think about it!
When it comes to aiming in pool, regardless of the method you are most comfortable using, you "wire" your brain circuitry with practice and drills. Aiming is a task that requires your body to complete a series of motions to pocket a object ball. Being able to repeat these motions consistently and instinctively will determine your level of play in billiards!
I'll leave you with this: while you are thinking about one of the most basic tasks in shot making (aiming)...you cannot possibly be concentrating on the task at hand. I love the way CJ put it, "think long, think wrong"!

 

[cfrandy]

I think cfrandy has been misunderstood by some.

Something is said & then it all turns into a dogfight of words.

When I'm playing well there is no 'real' thought. I see the shot & I shoot the shot.

I think that is what he is trying to say.

I have no conscious thought to how I am 'aiming'. If I'm using TOI it's just align ctc, cte, or c to the 1/4 line & execute. Because TOI is dynamic, it's not really aiming at all, at least not how I take the normal meaning.

When I'm shooting with english, it's much the same because there are dynamics involved.

If I or one is using a center hit then I think aiming becomes more important because there are less dynamics in play with which to 'use'. The aim line becomes more crucial.

Perhaps there is more feel in some methods than others.

Anyway, I think cfrandy is trying to make a point along those lines.

But, like Dennis Miller often says, I could be wrong.

Best to All,
Rick

The point I am trying to make is when I am down on a shot, I am not aiming. Quite frankly, I am always more concerned about position play than aiming! However, even position play is something that is done before going down on a shot. The one and ONLY thing I do when down to shoot is...target the cue ball, the rest of shot is insticntive.

 

[8pack]

You cannot explain it. Fact is, if you had to "think" about breathing...you would be dead!
The conscious mind does NOT multitask without losing concentration on each task, because the conscious mind is only capable of ONE task! The unconscious mind has a infinite capacity of tasking. You simply have to "wire" the circuitry for each task, then completing the task becomes instinctive...you DON'T have to think about it!
When it comes to aiming in pool, regardless of the method you are most comfortable using, you "wire" your brain circuitry with practice and drills. Aiming is a task that requires your body to complete a series of motions to pocket a object ball. Being able to repeat these motions consistently and instinctively will determine your level of play in billiards!
I'll leave you with this: while you are thinking about one of the most basic tasks in shot making (aiming)...you cannot possibly be concentrating on the task at hand. I love the way CJ put it, "think long, think wrong"!

Now your confusing breathing with aiming.. Not the same either, this has nothing to do with the subconscious. (involuntary)

How you connect to the shot determines a lot. We all do it different and the thinking is done with a conscious and subconscious mix.

And please stop with the comparing, not everything will have the same subconscious
behavior. JMO. .:smile:

I think CJ should become a preacher, he has the making of a good one.

 

[336Robin]

Outside In, Inside Out

I think CJ should become a preacher, he has the making of a good one.

From what I can tell from reading different posts about his aiming theories and feel and creating angles with your tip...Im pretty sure I understand it to be..he plays inside English forcing the squirt to correct the angle in his TOI shots and does the opposite using Outside English forcing them inwards to correct to the same pocket line on the Outside Shots. He states somewhere that you are creating angles according to distance. So his tips of English would progressively produce more squirt creating those angles from varying distances and his aiming is done at the cue ball which in this case I would totally understand.

I always find it interesting to hear and see how people are playing. The whole TOI is based on target, tip manipulation and from what I can glean from reading some of his posts this is what started him playing that way.

I understand what he is doing and I can see how it can be done and there are some things I do similar in nature but I always understand my shot line first then I plan for my squirt that should naturally happen when the proper English is applied.

Yeah he is a preacher of sorts, thats for sure.

 

[cfrandy]

Now your confusing breathing with aiming.. Not the same either, this has nothing to do with the subconscious. (involuntary)

How you connect to the shot determines a lot. We all do it different and the thinking is done with a conscious and subconscious mix.

And please stop with the comparing, not everything will have the same subconscious
behavior. JMO. .:smile:

I think CJ should become a preacher, he has the making of a good one

He is also a World Champion Pool Pro, you could learn from him...unless of course you know it all already.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Who on earth came up with calling deflection "squirting" - this sounds silly

Squirt is deflection.

pj
chgo

Whoever started calling deflection "squirt" should be squirted with some form of liquid. LoL

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

squirt
[skwurt]
Spell Syllables
Synonyms Examples Word Origin
verb (used without object)
1.
to eject liquid in a jet from a narrow orifice:
The hose squirted all over us.
2.
to eject a spurt of liquid:
The lemon squirted in my eye.
verb (used with object)
3.
to cause (liquid or a viscous substance) to spurt or issue in a jet, as from a narrow orifice:
Squirt the water over that way!
4.
to wet or bespatter with a liquid or viscous substance so ejected:
to squirt someone with a hose.
noun
5.
the act of squirting.
6.
a spurt or jetlike stream, as of water.
7.
a small quantity of liquid or viscous substance squirted:
Put a squirt of chocolate sauce on my ice cream.
8.
Informal.
a youngster, especially a meddlesome or impudent one.
a short person.
an insignificant, self-assertive person, especially one who is small or young.
9.
an instrument for squirting, as a syringe.
10.
Usually, squirts. Dialect, diarrhea.

 

[CJ Wiley]

TOI is NOT for you, please accept this and talk about your overall playing system

From what I can tell from reading different posts about his aiming theories and feel and creating angles with your tip...Im pretty sure I understand it to be..he plays inside English forcing the squirt to correct the angle in his TOI shots and does the opposite using Outside English forcing them inwards to correct to the same pocket line on the Outside Shots. He states somewhere that you are creating angles according to distance. So his tips of English would progressively produce more squirt creating those angles from varying distances and his aiming is done at the cue ball which in this case I would totally understand.

I always find it interesting to hear and see how people are playing. The whole TOI is based on target, tip manipulation and from what I can glean from reading some of his posts this is what started him playing that way.

I understand what he is doing and I can see how it can be done and there are some things I do similar in nature but I always understand my shot line first then I plan for my squirt that should naturally happen when the proper English is applied.

Yeah he is a preacher of sorts, thats for sure.

TOI is NOT english, it's an overall playing system. There's more written about this system of play than all others put together. If you don't believe this, name another overall playing system that has been discussed, or written about more? CLICK PICTURE TO SEE THE 15 BALL GHOST DEFEATED

Anyone that thinks TOI is "inside english" needs to admit that it's not for them and they should not discuss it anymore. I've said all along that THE TOUCH OF INSIDE technique is not for everyone, why is it so difficult for some people to accept that they will not need TOI to enjoy playing pool?

TOI is NOT for you, please accept this and talk about your overall playing system.....whatever that is, I doubt if there are many others.

 

[336Robin]

TOI is NOT english, it's an overall playing system. There's more written about this system of play than all others put together. If you don't believe this, name another overall playing system that has been discussed, or written about more? CLICK PICTURE TO SEE THE 15 BALL GHOST DEFEATED

Anyone that thinks TOI is "inside english" needs to admit that it's not for them and they should not discuss it anymore. I've said all along that THE TOUCH OF INSIDE technique is not for everyone, why is it so difficult for some people to accept that they will not need TOI to enjoy playing pool?

TOI is NOT for you, please accept this and talk about your overall playing system.....whatever that is, I doubt if there are many others.

Well it seems instead of dealing with the content of the post, you have taken things to a whole different level.

This is sort of like what was going on before when someone said CTE in a post here would come Stan and his folks.

This is an open forum and I conduct myself as a gentleman here and I don't appreciate the use of your post.

I have no reason to worry about your TOI system, I play just fine because its not for everyone and neither is my system but when you make posts and put your thoughts on playing all over the place people are going to come up with deductions based on those posts...which I did.

Having been a feel player myself in total with regards to an aiming line I will tell you this...Ive come to appreciate the aiming line and in fact the aiming line I choose to use to a 3 part pocket. While knowing the aiming line I can get a much better feel for what to do with English and it was strong enough to enable me to be able to quantify a system for application of Parallel Approached English that I will be able to explain in detail so that people will understand it. This is an entire subject of its own and is my second book in this area.

I appreciate very much your position and you are a great player who tries to tell people how he does what he does and that is worth something for sure.

All that being said have a wonderful day.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Whoever started calling deflection "squirt" should be squirted with some form of liquid.

Your (typically denigrating) joke doesn't change the fact that they mean the same thing in pool - you know, like "spot" means "handicap" or "cut" means "non straight" or... well, you get the idea (or not).

Insisting on using words differently than the people you're selling to doesn't sound like very effective marketing to me.

pj
chgo

 

[8pack]

He is also a World Champion Pool Pro, you could learn from him...unless of course you know it all already.

If he showed how to make a ball on the break everytime, I'm all ears. :smile:

You win...what was I thinking.
................ And BTW......................
The difference between something good and something great is attention to detail.
Did you ever see that incredible run of 29 ball's....WOW.

 

[LAMas]

The point I am trying to make is when I am down on a shot, I am not aiming. Quite frankly, I am always more concerned about position play than aiming! However, even position play is something that is done before going down on a shot. The one and ONLY thing I do when down to shoot is...target the cue ball, the rest of shot is insticntive.

I concur.
On many shots, I don't even use warm up strokes...I just get down and shoot.

 

[Neil]

He is also a World Champion Pool Pro, you could learn from him...unless of course you know it all already.

Not by any recognized authority, he isn't. Anyone can stick a title of World Champion in front of their name, doesn't mean they are one. The only two that recognize that tournament as a world championship are you and him. And the only reason he does is because he thinks it adds some kind of marketing credibility for him. (apparently for you, it does)

 

[DTL]

.....................

 

[ENGLISH!]

I concur.
On many shots, I don't even use warm up strokes...I just get down and shoot.

Hi E,

That is what TOI did for me. I now very rarely make any pre shot 'strokes'.

I think I only now do so when there is a bridge concern of some type.

To me, TOI makes the game simple & far less 'stressful' with less 'concerns', which allows one to 'play' more.:wink:

You Stay Well,
Rick

 

[Tony_in_MD]

But Neil, I read it on the internet it must be true!

:wink:

Not by any recognized authority, he isn't. Anyone can stick a title of World Champion in front of their name, doesn't mean they are one. The only two that recognize that tournament as a world championship are you and him. And the only reason he does is because he thinks it adds some kind of marketing credibility for him. (apparently for you, it does)

 

[(((Satori)))]

Not by any recognized authority, he isn't. Anyone can stick a title of World Champion in front of their name, doesn't mean they are one. The only two that recognize that tournament as a world championship are you and him. And the only reason he does is because he thinks it adds some kind of marketing credibility for him. (apparently for you, it does)

But Neil, I read it on the internet it must be true!

:wink:

What is true is that C.J. plays better than anyone in this thread and he was and perhaps still is world class.

He also won a "world championship" tournament against world class competition and that is good enough for me to say it is fine for anyone to call him a world champion. I don't need the political endorsement.

P.S. Lol at "read it on the internet."