Feel and Rhythm + Aiming.

[Patrick Johnson]

Thats precisely why I approach aiming differently than pivot systems. To me you lose a lot of visual information when you start pivoting and add confusion when you pivot and arent addressing the ball squarely. i just dont see the point.

I see two points, one bad and one good:

The bad point is using pivots to give the illusion that the system "takes you" to the final aim line rather than accepting that you have to do that yourself.

The good point is using pivots as a way to make the final fine tuning of aim a more deliberate and routine part of the process (with or without the illusion).

pj
chgo

 

[Neil]

Thats precisely why I approach aiming differently than pivot systems. To me you lose a lot of visual information when you start pivoting and add confusion when you pivot and arent addressing the ball squarely. i just dont see the point.

Actually, that is not true at all. Strange how the only ones that say things like you did are the ones that don't or can't use pivot systems. Yet, they seem to have no problem pivoting for applying english.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Strange how the only ones that say things like you did are the ones that don't or can't use pivot systems.

Wouldn't it be stranger if they said those things and did use them?

pj
chgo

 

[8pack]

Thats precisely why I approach aiming differently than pivot systems. To me you lose a lot of visual information when you start pivoting and add confusion when you pivot and arent addressing the ball squarely. i just dont see the point.

This is what happens a lot.( for me). If you set the same pivot shot up and shoot it over and over, there will be times when your set up wont be the same. You think it is but you'll soon realize either by missing the ball or actually seeing that the shot looks wrong.

Its not tough to address the ball when pivoting, its tough to address it perfect, even when knowing exactly where you need to start. A little off makes a big difference.

I agree with you.

 

[336Robin]

The only pivot

This is what happens a lot.( for me). If you set the same pivot shot up and shoot it over and over, there will be times when your set up wont be the same. You think it is but you'll soon realize either by missing the ball or actually seeing that the shot looks wrong.

Its not tough to address the ball when pivoting, its tough to address it perfect, even when knowing exactly where you need to start. A little off makes a big difference.

I agree with you.

Im doing a pretty extensive study of FHE, BHE and Parallel Applied English.

Not so much as in a Scientific Sense but a lot to do with the methods themselves and the comfort or useability of the methods.

I came back to playing in 2005 and it has been many years since I had played and many of the things I did, I just did and could not tell you how I did them so my quest became to explain to myself how I was doing some of those things as I relearned them.

One of those things I did naturally was apply English and I did it more from the application of FHE than from anything but instead of go to the table aim then pivot like in the Dr. Dave video...I went to the table already pivoted, got down in position knowing my ...Center Ball Contact Point/Hit Point and then I played the shot using my sideways pivot which was FHE.

I had no idea it was FHE. All I knew was that it was working. I dont for the life of me understand how one can pivot to Center Ball then pivot to apply spin. I dont feel right, my feet and my body are not set up right.

Its all in how you learn to play Im sure but when considering applications of English it seems to me that one pivot or in my case...no pivot...is better than any pivot at all provided that you use the correct bridge length.

 

[336Robin]

I admit I cant

Actually, that is not true at all. Strange how the only ones that say things like you did are the ones that don't or can't use pivot systems. Yet, they seem to have no problem pivoting for applying english.

I admit I cant use a pivot, Im not saying one cant, but I cant do it. I feel confused and have lost my bearings at the table.

 

[336Robin]

The Objectiviity Thing

I see two points, one bad and one good:

The bad point is using pivots to give the illusion that the system "takes you" to the final aim line rather than accepting that you have to do that yourself.

The good point is using pivots as a way to make the final fine tuning of aim a more deliberate and routine part of the process (with or without the illusion).

pj
chgo

The Objectivity Illusion.

The human eye is sensitive enough to tell you if you are set up right if you can use your eyes and brain to find a way to setup correctly and recognize it. Repetitive small motions set up a references define stability.

I think Einstein postulated there were a million shots on the pool table, it was some ungodly number and I'm sure that defined cuts will make a certain amount of shots. Just as that being so there will be a variety of cuts always. As long as there are a variety of cuts to be placed on the ball...ie..3/4 down to 1/32 and of course spin applied to them...It will take an eye, a hand and a knowing from the all seeing eye of the brain to know how to collect information about how to play a shot to spin and make pool balls.

I dont see the wisdom in claiming any objectivity in what is processed by the eye, the hand, the brain and the soul when its obviously a beautiful game of feel.

 

[Mikjary]

There's nothing wrong with having a systematic way of doing things. We use systems consciously and unconsciously throughout the day to get done what we need to do. Most of these systems are ingrained and by using our senses, they become the "feel" we talk about in our pool games.

If we trip while walking, bump our head while getting into the vehicle, bite our tongue while chewing, we stop and think for a second, reset and do it again. These systems need a second look from time to time, like fundamentals in any activity. After extensive use, even less affirmation is needed.

The goal of any aiming system is feel. If it breaks down, a quick return to its fundamentals is all it takes to right the ship. Using this feel is the path to playing at an advanced level where conscious thought doesn't interfere with the mind's search for creative play and reaching the upper levels of performance.

Best,
Mike

 

[336Robin]

First Do this and then That..

There's nothing wrong with having a systematic way of doing things. We use systems consciously and unconsciously throughout the day to get done what we need to do. Most of these systems are ingrained and by using our senses, they become the "feel" we talk about in our pool games.

If we trip while walking, bump our head while getting into the vehicle, bite our tongue while chewing, we stop and think for a second, reset and do it again. These systems need a second look from time to time, like fundamentals in any activity. After extensive use, even less affirmation is needed.

The goal of any aiming system is feel. If it breaks down, a quick return to its fundamentals is all it takes to right the ship. Using this feel is the path to playing at an advanced level where conscious thought doesn't interfere with the mind's search for creative play and reaching the upper levels of performance.

Best,
Mike

I agree Mike,

What I see is that since the advent of the Pivot Systems it seems that all Systems get lumped into that group and thats totally wrong but an assumption that gets made.

Peoples eyes get closed because they think they have seen it all.

There are simpler ways of doing things.

 

[Ralph Kramden]

How do you know?

Y'all have no idea......best to speak for what you do rather than just speculate on what others do just in order to appear to know it all.

If y'all played 14.1 more and not those kids games, this question would never have been asked.

No one is on my ignore list.... but when I see who posted I'll usually just not read it.
Apparently I made the mistake of reading this knowledgeable post. Sorry 'bout that.
.

 

[Hepcat]

Wow. So you are supposed to aim. I see my problem now. Seriously, no aiming for me. I see the shot and execute. Nothing to figure out.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

...no aiming for me.

No conscious aiming...

pj
chgo

 

[pablocruz]

 

[Cuemaster98]

I thought that was the whole idea behind any aiming system, learn to aim so you don't have to aim when playing in a game.

The aiming method/system should be used to train your subconscious so that eventually you just recognized your line of aim and shoot more consistently. If you have a good foundation for references to get you into the proper line of aim, you'll learn faster and can cut your learning curve. It might take someone 5 years to learn it through shooting a million balls where as someone with a system will become more proficient shooting only 2 years shooting 500K balls.

When you shoot enough shots, your whole games will be based on references you learned either through your aiming system(s) or just from shooting the shoot over and over.

At end of the day, your potting percentage will only go up if you practice, practice and practice.....the fact that you learned any aiming systems doesn't do much for you game until it's applied. Much like learning anything else in this game....you may have the knowledge but that knowledge needs to be applied over and over again until it become second nature.

When you get to this stage..you will be able to get into dead stroke much easier. Someday you'll play amazing because your mind if referencing properly...other days..you didn't get enough sleep...so your mind doesn't work as well so you'll play like crap. Too many darn variables in this game...that can hinder your game.....funny that you play much better when you just forget them all and just play the darn game.

Duc.

( I think )When it comes to aiming, if your system requires you to take longer then a few seconds to figure out the shot, you'll never understand what feel and rhythm can do for you. Knowledge is required for certain but if you don't let go at some point, YOUR dead stroke will never happen.
You ever play and beat someone and never really remember a thing:??.:smile:

A lot of system's out there, many are wrong, wrong in the way of really getting your best out.Feel and rhythm will create the right type of aiming.
Something simple and fast is whats required.

JMO

Anthony

 

[8pack]

I thought that was the whole idea behind any aiming system, learn to aim so you don't have to aim when playing in a game.

The aiming method/system should be used to train your subconscious so that eventually you just recognized your line of aim and shoot more consistently. If you have a good foundation for references to get you into the proper line of aim, you'll learn faster and can cut your learning curve. It might take someone 5 years to learn it through shooting a million balls where as someone with a system will become more proficient shooting only 2 years shooting 500K balls.

When you shoot enough shots, your whole games will be based on references you learned either through your aiming system(s) or just from shooting the shoot over and over. I would agree, and never change your shaft that you've learned with.(outside center hits is a big part of the learning curve, starting over isn't in your favor, if your serious about your game)

At end of the day, your potting percentage will only go up if you practice, practice and practice.....the fact that you learned any aiming systems doesn't do much for you game until it's applied. Much like learning anything else in this game....you may have the knowledge but that knowledge needs to be applied over and over again until it become second nature.

When you get this stage..you will be able to get into dead stroke much easier. Someday you'll play amazing because your mind if referencing probably...other days..you didn't get enough sleep...so your mind doesn't work as well so you'll play like crap.

Duc.

Many systems out there, not many will ever get you in the position to play really well.

 

[Cuemaster98]

Agreed...but by designed the idea behind an aiming system (Ghost ball included) is to teach you to learn something faster. Eg..Ghost ball is much better for beginner than just telling someone new to the game to throw out some ball and figure it out on how to make it into a pocket.

In the same token....there are aiming systems out there that will allow a person to play really well....Eg. Shane Van Boeing aiming system works very well for him and got him to where he is today. He probably doesn't even aim now....so his aiming system works for him....of course with thousands of hours logged with them. My point is.....anyone who willing to work hard at this game can play well.....just a matter of how efficient you want to be to get to the level of play that you want.

I mean you have 14 years old kids that's playing for only 2 years that's at A level while you have someone playing for 30 years and still can't break their B level.
Maybe the kid was taught how to play with a system that got him to that level faster...while the B level player..just been hacking at balls for over 30 years. Of course ambition is part of this equation....the B player doesn't want to be better.

Pool is now the only game in the world where you do not want to get better in my area (Just have to stay at the A+ level for life)...if you're too good...they don't let you play in any of the local tournaments or any leagues.

Duc.

Many systems out there, not many will ever get you in the position to play really well.

 

[8pack]

Agreed...but by designed the idea behind an aiming system (Ghost ball included) is to teach you to learn something faster. Eg..Ghost ball is much better for beginner than just telling someone new to the game to throw out some ball and figure it out on how to make it into a pocket.

In the same token....there are aiming systems out there that will allow a person to play really well....Eg. Shane Van Boeing aiming system works very well for him and got him to where he is today. He probably doesn't even aim now....so his aiming system works for him....of course with thousands of hours logged with them. My point is.....anyone who willing to work hard at this game can play well.....just a matter of how efficient you want to be to get to the level of play that you want.

I mean you have 14 years old kids that's playing for only 2 years that's at A level while you have someone playing for 30 years and still can't break their B level.
Maybe the kid was taught how to play with a system that got him to that level faster...while the B level player..just been hacking at balls for over 30 years. Of course ambition is part of this equation....the B player doesn't want to be better.

Pool is now the only game in the world where you do not want to get better in my area (Just have to stay at the A+ level for life)...if you're too good...they don't let you play in any of the local tournaments or any leagues.

Duc.

If your talking about beginner's who just want to be nothing more then bangers with no intention's of getting to a level of understanding how the game can really be played...by all means have at it. But if you think" any "system can be whittled into making a person great, your sadly mistaken.

Great players have away of making shot's seem easy, you say..don't think about aiming more. ... It's not like they don't think about aiming, its more like they already know how to aim.:wink:

Aiming is a routine that has a connection with added knowledge which should become second nature.

Lets say a person becomes a great shot maker using the bob system, there will never become a time where he or she just dont aim anymore, the connection will still remain Cuemaster98 (which is needed) the knowledge gained through trial and error will eventually take on the look of what one should be striving for.




Anthony

 

[Ratta]

If your talking about beginner's who just want to be nothing more then bangers with no intention's of getting to a level of understanding how the game can really be played...by all means have at it. But if you think" any "system can be whittled into making a person great, your sadly mistaken.

Great players have away of making shot's seem easy, you say..don't think about aiming more. ... It's not like they don't think about aiming, its more like they already know how to aim.:wink:

Aiming is a routine that has a connection with added knowledge which should become second nature.

Lets say a person becomes a great shot maker using the bob system, there will never become a time where he or she just dont aim anymore, the connection will still remain Cuemaster98 (which is needed) the knowledge gained through trial and error will eventually take on the look of what one should be striving for.




Anthony

well said antony

 

[8pack]

well said antony

Thanks Ratta, hope your doing well.