Ferrule question. Ivory.

[Cmbeers]

I had a customer bring me a Meucci shaft that he wanted an ivory ferrule on. He had the ferrule replaced by another cue repair person and they put a non ivory one back on it.

So, I cut the tip off today and this is what I see. I waiting to hear from the customer but I thought I would get some opinions here. Why would an experienced repairman put such a big tenon and leave the thickness of the ferrule so thin? Also, why would you not cap it properly? I haven't cut into it yet, but I'm guessing it isn't threaded either. I know how to properly do the job, but it boggles my mind why someone would do it like this.

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[KJ Cues]

"Why would an experienced repairman put such a big tenon and leave the
thickness of the ferrule so thin?"

Ah....that's the way the cue was built. You don't know Meucci cues.
A repairman didn't install that tenon, the factory did.
Not every cue is going to be built the way you expect them to be.
There are a lot of variables in every aspect of cue construction.
I'd suggest you learn some of those variables (quickly).
I'd refuse the job but only because I know better.

 

[Cmbeers]

I'm no expert, but I've done a few Meucci ferrules and everyone of them has been threaded and capped. This is the first one that I've seen not capped and that thick of a tenon.
I'm still learning this craft and that is why I ask questions before I get into something that I may get into trouble with. I have seen and replaced many different kinds of ferrules but I am by no means an expert. KJ, why would you not do this job? Is it because the ivory may break? Is there a common problem with these ferrules?


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[Russell Cues]

Most of the old meucci cues have a large tenon. Im with KJ, pass, it will cause you more headaches in the future.

 

[aphelps1]

Putting on a threaded and capped ivory ferrule will totally change the hit of the shaft, and it's a one-way street. Pass for me too.

Alan

Phelps Custom Cues

 

[Chopdoc]

That looks like a 1.25" Meucci Originals ferrule.

AFAIK the seeming disagreement is because the large tenon (thin ferrule) Meucci cues like the one pictured are the pre-dot Meucci Originals with the long (1.25") ferrule. Meucci left that construction behind a long time ago. Those ferrules, not surprisingly, were prone to cracking. But they also contributed to the playing characteristics and fame of Meucci cues in that era IMHO.

IMHO an ivory ferrule will change the playing characteristics in general, but especially if going from a thin light plastic ferrule to a thick heavy one. I think the difference could be extreme.

I am curious if the owner actually wants a 1.25 inch ivory ferrule or a 1 inch, obviously you wouldn't put an ivory ferrule on with such thin walls as that original ferrule.



.

 

[Cmbeers]

Yes, the owner said it had a ivory ferrule on it and when it cracked, he sent it to be repaired and they put this one on it. I'm just going on what the owner said.
I have little experience with Ivory. Did Meucci not use Ivory on these shafts?


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[Michael Webb]

I had a customer bring me a Meucci shaft that he wanted an ivory ferrule on. He had the ferrule replaced by another cue repair person and they put a non ivory one back on it.

So, I cut the tip off today and this is what I see. I waiting to hear from the customer but I thought I would get some opinions here. Why would an experienced repairman put such a big tenon and leave the thickness of the ferrule so thin? Also, why would you not cap it properly?

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Standard Meucci ferrule set up before red and black dot shafts. I have customers who specify they want it kept that way. Originally ABS which was described as the least durable of the ferrule material. It plays well. Accept don't condemn. Lol

 

[cueman]

Meucci probably did not put on an Ivory ferrule, but many people mistake the heavy grain in older Meucci ferrules for ivory. Meucci used the 3/8" tenon. If I replace one I go with similar softer high action material and cut a 5/16" tenon and thread and cap it. The difference in the hit is very minor and yet much stronger.

 

[Chopdoc]

Meucci probably did not put on an Ivory ferrule, but many people mistake the heavy grain in older Meucci ferrules for ivory. Meucci used the 3/8" tenon. If I replace one I go with similar softer high action material and cut a 5/16" tenon and thread and cap it. The difference in the hit is very minor and yet much stronger.

IMHO that sounds like a good compromise.



.

 

[whammo57]

When i get in a Meucci shaft with a cracked ferrule......... and there have been many.... I turn the tenon down to 5/16 and slip on a new ferrule........ never had one come back.... never had anyone say it hit differently............


The thin ferrule is just a bad idea................ that long ferrule gives a soft hit anyway...........

Kim

 

[KJ Cues]

I'm still learning this craft and that is why I ask questions before I get into something that I may get into trouble with. I have seen and replaced many different kinds of ferrules but I am by no means an expert. KJ, why would you not do this job? Is it because the ivory may break? Is there a common problem with these ferrules?


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Thank you. I wanted to get back to this thread.
What I neglected to mention in my previous post is that you did the right thing in 'stopping'
when something didn't look familiar and then sought insight. That's what you're suppose to do.
How many would have plowed-ahead blindly ? You did good. Lol

Why wouldn't I take the job ? First and foremost I won't touch ivory.
I would suggest to the client that he needs to find another to do his bidding.
I have standards and ethics and I have to be true to myself. Otherwise, who am I ?

There are other considerations, one of which has been mentioned; 'one way street'.
There's nothing that can't be done on a cue but what about the 'intent' of the builder ?
I'll admit that I have done modifications on Meucci ferrule/tenon design construction.
I won't stray from the orig. tenon dia. by much if at all. It was designed that way for a reason.
PVC/Implex to LBM in my opinion is a good move but ivory ? He needs to find another.

Let me carry this thought further.
Just because 'you hang-out a shingle' telling the world that you do cue repair,
doesn't mean that you have to accept every task that comes your way.
Unless you're coming out of the box incredibly accommplished, it's best that you don't.
Here's an example : A player/cue owner comes to you and wants a particular procedure performed.
Because you're in the business and you work on cues you accept the job.
Shortly thereafter the cue starts to develop problems.
The owner tells his friends that you were the last to work on his cue. His friends now blame you.
Shitstorm ensues. Fellow C-Tecs hear of this and say you got trapped. Which is it ?

You trapped yourself. Albeit with the help of a client who had been elsewhere and was told NO,
you, being new in the business gladly accept the task because you don't know any better.
See how easy that was ? Now you got some 'splainin' to do.
I spoke of talent and confidence; they're your defense. Without them you're trapped.
The talent comes from having successfully performed the procedure 17 times already. EXPERIENCE.
The confidence is in telling the client that the problems he's now having are due to his own abuse.
He's looking for someone to blame and recently ran out of mirrors. Guess who's fault it is ?
I've said it 3-4 times now, you need to know better. If you don't, don't touch it.

 

[Cmbeers]

Thank you all. Thank you KJ, great advice.

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[a1712]

I've turned down simple tip changes for the simple reason KJ quoted. You get a shaft with a really messed up ferrule, tell the person it needs changed, they refuse, so inturn I refuse. You can do the best tip change in the world, but when people see the ferrule that you had absolutely nothing to do with, you are a hack. Brian.

 

[ratcues]

I get this quite often where the Meucci owner thinks there cue is loaded with ivory when it is just the "grain" of the plastic. I hate the look in their eyes when I break their heart...

In the OP's case, Meucci has changed their ferrule style a few times over the years, as do other cue makers. They do it for a reason and it is best not to mess with the design unless you clear it with the player first. There are better ferrule materials that produce a similar hit but are stronger and less likely to crack with the larger tenon.

I'm not against the use of ivory but this particular cue would be a hard pass.

 

[greyghost]

I get this quite often where the Meucci owner thinks there cue is loaded with ivory when it is just the "grain" of the plastic. I hate the look in their eyes when I break their heart...

In the OP's case, Meucci has changed their ferrule style a few times over the years, as do other cue makers. They do it for a reason and it is best not to mess with the design unless you clear it with the player first. There are better ferrule materials that produce a similar hit but are stronger and less likely to crack with the larger tenon.

I'm not against the use of ivory but this particular cue would be a hard pass.

yea...that is brutal....at least an old meucci can look nice, its not like laughing at someone when they say their cue is an old collectable they got from their grandpa and it comes in a notebook size case in 4+ peices including the washer weights lol.

just yesterday though a young kid came in, was like 20 i believe. Military brat. His grandfather passed. They found an old cue....what do ya know.....worthless old meucci, decent shape....merry widow, stained badly.......he's talking about the cue....and i'm telling him its not really worth much...none of its ivory on buttcap or ferrule and joint lol.....and i look over at his seat.....nice old its george in ostrich print......warped pretty decent lol, and the leather actually is in great shape but it shrunk really bad....and the meucci has been in it in a shed for 20+ years, meucci has a SW taper roll lol....

i told him if his house is on fire....grab that case before he grabs the cue.