Few shaft questions.

D

David Beck

Let us to Billiards!
Silver Member
1. Would it be possible to core a radially laminated shaft blank or would the shaft need to be built this way? If it is possible, is there a limit on how deep it could be cored?

2. Is ferrule length included in taper length? For instance, if I had a shaft with a 10 inch pro taper, and a 1 inch ferrule, would that mean the "pro" taper ended at 10 inches from the front of the ferrule, or the base of the ferrule?

3. Anyone know the difference between the Dominator and Matrix radially laminated shafts from Atlas?

Thanks,
David
 
the Dominators are a little cleaner looking and made in USA i believe.the matrix is mostly darker looking Maple and made overseas.Atlas charges way too much for the Dominators.

i don't see why you couldn't core the shaft if the whole was small enough.


i start measuring the taper behind the ferrule which may or may not be right.i also try to make my ferrule slightly growing from the tip to the base.just .002-.003".
 
Thanks for the info. I wasn't really sure if there was a standard or not for where to start measuring the taper. As for the core, I was thinking along the lines of 7mm. I don't have much woodworking experience, so I wasn't sure what the depth limitations were, due to accuracy, equipment, etc.
 
For your consideration, the McDermott 'i' shafts are cored from one end to the other; totally hollow. They then install a 'carbon fibre' tube into the hollow. This adds a degree of strength and helps resist warpage. They are one of the more expensive performance shafts. I'd like to see them pick-up their QC a bit on these. Particularly the 'speed bumps' and ripples up and down the entire shaft. I've yet to find one that I can't see router marks on the surface.
 
KJ Cues said:
For your consideration, the McDermott 'i' shafts are cored from one end to the other; totally hollow. They then install a 'carbon fibre' tube into the hollow. This adds a degree of strength and helps resist warpage. They are one of the more expensive performance shafts. I'd like to see them pick-up their QC a bit on these. Particularly the 'speed bumps' and ripples up and down the entire shaft. I've yet to find one that I can't see router marks on the surface.
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That is interesting. I was wondering whether they cored it after the shaft was laminated, or laminated pieces around the core kinda like the Tiger-X shafts do.
 
David Beck said:
1. Would it be possible to core a radially laminated shaft blank or would the shaft need to be built this way? If it is possible, is there a limit on how deep it could be cored?

2. Is ferrule length included in taper length? For instance, if I had a shaft with a 10 inch pro taper, and a 1 inch ferrule, would that mean the "pro" taper ended at 10 inches from the front of the ferrule, or the base of the ferrule?

3. Anyone know the difference between the Dominator and Matrix radially laminated shafts from Atlas?

Thanks,
David
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I measure my BLACK HEART shafts from the ti of the ferrule...JER
 
i would think 7mm would be way too big to go very deep.i had a cue once ans it was hollow like that a few inches deeo,but i wasn't cray about the hit.
 
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masonh said:
i would think 7mm would be way too big to go very deep.i had a cue once ans it was hollow like that a few inches deeo,but i wasn't cray about the hit.
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Well the reason I was asking is because I've been researching LD shafts and cuemaking and woods and reading the many many debates on here and other forums about the pros and cons and opinions of LD shafts for pretty long now. And I was just thinking about how I would design one if I was able to.

It would be cored with another material, and the core would be less than 12 inches deep, if possible.

If I can find someone to build it for me, I'd like to have a "prototype" designed someday soon, assuming it's not too overly expensive. The materials don't add up to much. If it turned out to be what I expected I might look into having some made and selling them. If not, then I guess I got some very expensive firewood.
 
masonh said:
i would think 7mm would be way too big to go very deep.i had a cue once ans it was hollow like that a few inches deeo,but i wasn't cray about the hit.
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I neglected to mention the OB-1 which is also hollow, although it has the hollow void filled with foam to dampen the vibration associated with light weight performance shafts. The reason I've quoted masonh is that 7mm is less than what the OB hollow is, which is 5/16" (.3125")(7mm=.276").

I'm not wild about hollow shafts regardless of who makes them, although I understand why the builders do what they do. I prefer the 'feel' of the wood, whether it's one pc. or 10.

Dave, There's like a gazillion laminated performance shafts out there already. Are you sure you want to spend your time re-inventing the wheel?
 
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KJ Cues said:
Dave, There's like a gazillion laminated performance shafts out there already. I you sure you want to spend your time re-inventing the wheel?
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I realize that, and have tried most of the bigger name ones. I own an OB-1 and was going to buy a 314-2. That being said, I'm studying to become an engineer, and sometimes I just can't help it. The obsession with pool really doesn't help. Not having the money or time to put into cuemaking, all I can do is fantasize.
 
David Beck said:
I realize that, and have tried most of the bigger name ones. I own an OB-1 and was going to buy a 314-2. That being said, I'm studying to become an engineer, and sometimes I just can't help it. The obsession with pool really doesn't help. Not having the money or time to put into cuemaking, all I can do is fantasize.
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One can't be faulted for that, we're all that way to varying degrees:D
 
shafts

masonh said:
the Dominators are a little cleaner looking and made in USA i believe.the matrix is mostly darker looking Maple and made overseas.Atlas charges way too much for the Dominators.

i don't see why you couldn't core the shaft if the whole was small enough.


i start measuring the taper behind the ferrule which may or may not be right.i also try to make my ferrule slightly growing from the tip to the base.just .002-.003".
Click to expand...



Hello MasonH,

I have had mild success with the radially laminated shafts and I've been using the expensive U.S made versions. Very early last year I purchased a set of 10 blanks and turned them down, slowly with several cuts and lots of waiting between as I do with one piece shafts.

Some of these shafts were matched up to cues late last year and some still left oversized to "age" a little longer over the winter. While many have stayed dead straight, others have warped very badly. This happened with the last batch that I did of radially laminated shafts as well, those were the cheaper "import" source, hence the reason I spent the extra money this time.

These "radially laminated" shafts are sopposed to be "stress free" since the pie pieces are cut into small sections and then re-glued together and turned into a dowel. I can assure that you will have some loss with these too. That hurts with these ones since they are SO expensive....just a word of caution. I definitely recommend that you age them for longer than you expect, and NEVER dip them in Nelsonite, that breaks down the glue and they will become unlaminated blanks.

Best,
Mike
 
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Pancerny,

I find it interesting that many think that the pie shaped laminated shafts are supposed to be "Stress Relieved". In fact, with the pie shape lamination process, there is no way possible, that I can think of, to "Stress Relieve" them. If you think about it, the only real way to relieve stress is to cut the wood, let it rest until it quits moving, and cut it again without bending it back to it's original shape. You have to do this over and over again.

The only way to relieve each piece is to turn them round, just as you would a conventional shaft, and make small cuts over time. You just can't do that with pie shepd pieces. Although there is not a way to completely remove stress, this is about as close as you can reasonably get.

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
 
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