First Cue and Warping

105 Joe

New member
I am an intermediate player who has decided to buy my first cue. I’ve always used house cues, so I like the look and feel of them … particularly the no wrap feel. In my research, I learned that they are often called “Sneaky Pete’s”. Some SP’s come with a wood to wood joint, which should not be used for breaking. So, I’m looking for something that does not have a wood to wood joint. My budget is up to $450.

I’ve found some cues that look great from Pechauer, Josey, Predator (the 314-2 shaft looks interesting, but I can’t tell if it is just marketing) and Joss (although I couldn’t quite tell what joint was used by looking at their website). Some have lifetime warranties that include warping, and some don’t.

I’m looking for thoughts on these cues, and also whether I should be concerned that some of them do not cover against warping (including Predator) in the warranty.

Thanks,

105 Joe
 
i just read somewhere that joss cues don't offer a lifetime warrantee.

i'd opt for a josey if you're just picking from your list above
 
I was going to ask the same question, Blackheart. Warps are rare, but any reputable cuemaker will take care of you.
And who said you couldn't break with a wood to wood joint?
And whose lifetime are you talking about? Your's, the cue's, or the cuemaker's.
 
I am an intermediate player who has decided to buy my first cue. I’ve always used house cues, so I like the look and feel of them … particularly the no wrap feel. In my research, I learned that they are often called “Sneaky Pete’s”. Some SP’s come with a wood to wood joint, which should not be used for breaking. So, I’m looking for something that does not have a wood to wood joint. My budget is up to $450.

I’ve found some cues that look great from Pechauer, Josey, Predator (the 314-2 shaft looks interesting, but I can’t tell if it is just marketing) and Joss (although I couldn’t quite tell what joint was used by looking at their website). Some have lifetime warranties that include warping, and some don’t.

I’m looking for thoughts on these cues, and also whether I should be concerned that some of them do not cover against warping (including Predator) in the warranty.

Thanks,

105 Joe
"Wood to wood" joint can mean different things. What you're probably thinking of is a plain wood joint, where neither the butt nor shaft has a joint collar. Some people would probably agree that this type of joint can be somewhat more susceptible to splitting if used for breaking, so may not be your best choice if you want to break and play with one cue.

More commonly, "wood to wood" is used to describe a joint where some wood in the shaft connects to wood in the butt when the cue is joined, even if both parts have joint collars. If there are collars of synthetic material (as opposed to wood collars) then the joint would presumably be strong enough for breaking. Just to confuse you further, you could have a cue with a solid ivory joint, which is NOT wood to wood, however you probably wouldn't want to break with it due to the risk of splitting the ivory.

The only cue I've heard of with a warranty against warping is McDermott. I don't think you should limit yourself by such a requirement; as long as you buy from a reputable cue maker who uses properly seasoned wood in his shafts, you aren't likely to have a significant problem.

Welcome to this site. I'd suggest spending a fair amount of time reading here before making a final decision.
 
I shoot with a McDermott and really like it. I also use a McDermott I-3 shaft which comes with a soft Moori tip. I recently sent my shaft back to McDermott for a cleaning, seal, wax, and new soft Moori tip. All this work was covered by the lifetime warrant and all I had to pay was $21.95 for shipping and handling. When I got the shaft back it looked like brand new. I've never had a shaft warp but it's covered in their warranty. That's mighty hard to beat. If I were you, I'd consider a McDermott.
 
Joe,

You can buy a ton of cue for $450.......IMHO, the best deals to be found right now are on used cues....check out the for sale section here - there is many a cue that retailed for $1000 that can be had for your price....also, if you are a fan of new, check out the Sneaky's being offered for $450.....I think jazznpool has a beautiful AC Sneaky with two shafts for $450 shipped and insured.....so do a ton of other custom guys like Sly......spend an hour on in the for sale forum.....go back about 10 or so pages, look at the cues....you might be surprised how much quality you can get at that price....

Good luck shopping...

EDIT - if you keep any good cue at room temp, it shouldn't warp.....and even the best $5000 cue can warp in the wrong environment....take care of it

Jason
 
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At a minimum, McDermott and Pechauer both provide for lifetime warranty against warpage.

As for wood to wood joints, at least two of the manufacturers have I listed said that I should not break with a wood to wood joint because of the risk of splitting from the pressure.
 
I shoot with a McDermott and really like it. I also use a McDermott I-3 shaft which comes with a soft Moori tip. I recently sent my shaft back to McDermott for a cleaning, seal, wax, and new soft Moori tip. All this work was covered by the lifetime warrant and all I had to pay was $21.95 for shipping and handling. When I got the shaft back it looked like brand new. I've never had a shaft warp but it's covered in their warranty. That's mighty hard to beat. If I were you, I'd consider a McDermott.

That is mighty hard to beat. Because of that I recommend Mcdermott's to most new players inquiring about purchasing their first new cue. I actually just ordered an I-3 partial today for a cue I am having made, cant wait to check it out.
 
Careful of getting caught up in the promise of a "warranty". Companies that have extensive warranties do so via two methods - the warranty is priced into the product, meaning you pay $300 for a $200 cue......or, the production focus is more on the warranty and less on the playability......while Hyundai and Kia cars have gotten better, they used to package up a big warranty around a POS car :grin-square:

Regardless of what you do, sounds like you are getting a nice cue.....enjoy...
 
You can find lots of cues available for your $450 budget, especially sneakies from custom cue makers like Josey, Frey, Sly, and a ton of others.

As for lifetime warrantees against warpage, McDermott and Viking both offer that coverage to the original owner on their cues. You just need to register the cue when you buy it. It covers the butt and the shaft.

There is never a true guarantee that a cue, no matter who makes it, will not warp to some degree. How you treat, store and carry the cue will have a lot to do with that, however. Wood moves when subjected to changes in moisture and temperature...that is just the way it is.

Best of luck in finding a cue that works for you.

Joe
 
I Really Like My Josey Cues

I have a pair of his sneaky's that I play with just about everyday. I've owned lots of different cues from $50. to in the thousands. I don't think you can beat Keith's cues for the money. Keith and Shari are nice people and great to work with.
 
Joe....you certainly could not go wrong with one of Keith Josey's cues...especially if you like that barstick feel...like a one piece. His SP's replicate that feel very very well. If you have an interest, definitely give them a call. They generally have a few already completed SP's at the shop most times, I believe. They can be reached at 800-514-CUES. Best to call on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Fridays, as they also teach martial arts and can be unavailable on Mondays and Wednesdays. Sometimes they can be caught at the shop on Saturdays as well. Super nice folks.

Okay...let's clear up the wood2wood confusion. Basically, a wood2wood joint is one that the primary contact surfaces of the joint are wood. Now, this can be an all wood2wood joint...such as your traditional sneaky pete...where the joint is meant to not be apparent, and replicate a one piece barstick look. Some break with these, some don't.

The most commonly seen wood2wood joint is where there is a phenolic ring collar on the outside (sleeve) and the wood interior. The thought here is that the phenolic ring collar helps to absorb and spread evenly some of the kinetic energy flowing through the joint at the time of impact, and thereby lessens the stresses on the wood itself.

I also have a cue with a wood2wood joint that has a 1/2" stainless steel sleeve. Basically looks like a stainless steel jointed cue, but with the wood2wood feel...with a kick! LoL!

I should mention that the most common pins used in a wood2wood jointed cue will be 3/8-10, 3/8-11 (commonly known as the SW pin), and the Radial. Keith uses Radial pins in his cues...it provides for a generally stiff hitting cue, as will the 3/8-11. I have seen Leon Sly use all three type pins in his cues...if that helps.

Pricing of custom SP-type cues can vary from $200 to well over $1000...just depends who the maker is, and also if they are crafting the full spliced blank from scratch or are using a pre-made blank. If you want to start adding veneers to the points, the price is going to go up...and in all reality, it's not technically a sneaky pete anymore. Most SP's are not technically sneaky pete's anymore...since they sport joint collars and often some sort of ring work...hardly sneaky.

Guarantees against warpage is not a big selling point to me, and here's why: Wood moves...some moves more than others. When you are dealing with a custom maker, as opposed to a production maker...they are generally much pickier about the wood stock they get in...and will take the needed time necessary to turn that wood to keep things such as movement down to a minimum. Also, some woods are just more tempermental than others...ebonies, purpleheart, most rosewoods, and straight grained maples are perhaps your most stable of the woods. The ebonies can tend to be on the heavier side, due to the woods' densities. Purpleheart is a great stable wood, and gives a great 'feel' to the cue. I, personally think one of the best all around great hitting woods is Bocote...but it is a love/hate as to whether one likes the looks of it or not.

I would definitely suggest doing as much research as possible as to different woods' characteristics...this will help you make an informed decision as to the type of wood you would like your cue made with and lessens the possibility of disappointment with your new cue. I am not sure if they still do, but Taylor Guitars used to have a place on their website that described the different harmonic characteristics of ebony, rosewood, maple, etc. This information translates directly to the same characteristics that make for a great hitting cue.

I apologize if my post ran long and if the info is all a bit much to take in all at once. But I firmly believe that the more you know, the better the right decision for you to make is, and the end result will be more of a positive than a negative. Nothing worse than waiting for a new cue to only have it play like a log, for you.

Lisa
 
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Mcdermott warpage warranty is useless. Don`t consider this when you are buying a cue. They won`t cover it unless the ferrule is leaving the surface when you roll the shaft. And if this happens to my cue, I don`t even want to hear anything about this company :rolleyes:
 
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I have a Mcdermott w/ no wrap, and love the cue regardless of the warranty.

As for a wrapless cue, well... I don't do "decoration" very well. This from the guy who told the car salesman I'd take a sledgehammer to the front fenders of a vehicle if he'd drop the price by a few thousand dollars. Now, quality of the cue notwithstanding, when someone tells me that the wrap, or for that matter, any decoration will help improve my playing, well that's when it will have value for me worth spending my extra hard-earned cash.
 
I am an intermediate player who has decided to buy my first cue. I’ve always used house cues, so I like the look and feel of them … particularly the no wrap feel. In my research, I learned that they are often called “Sneaky Pete’s”. Some SP’s come with a wood to wood joint, which should not be used for breaking. So, I’m looking for something that does not have a wood to wood joint. My budget is up to $450.

I’ve found some cues that look great from Pechauer, Josey, Predator (the 314-2 shaft looks interesting, but I can’t tell if it is just marketing) and Joss (although I couldn’t quite tell what joint was used by looking at their website). Some have lifetime warranties that include warping, and some don’t.

I’m looking for thoughts on these cues, and also whether I should be concerned that some of them do not cover against warping (including Predator) in the warranty.

Thanks,

105 Joe

Joe I just sent you a private message with an offer. I am an authorized McDermott dealer. Contact me if interested after reading the PM, thanks.
 
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