First time seeing my own stroke

[randyg]

I watched the whole video with what you said in mind. Not a single stroke he took in the whole video had a de-accelerating cue at the point of contact. It was accelerating at the time of contact in every single shot. Also his grip tightens on the followthrough, I am not sure it is so loose in the warmup strokes. What he does is somewhat similar to alot of Filipino players, a loose grip with contact on the thumb, forefinger, and maybe middle finger and on the followthrough the ring finger and pinky come up to in effect "catch" the cue in the finish part of the stroke. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that and many word champion calibre players do that exact same thing.

Anyhow, which stroke do you think he is de-accelerating at the time of cueball contact, please clarify and tell us how you figure this to be the case.

Sure, that's what I do for an occupation.

Let's start with Physics. Any time you are going to stop your cue stick on purpose, the cue stick has to start slowing down before it can stop. Here is the problem.....when does it start de-accelerating? Have we never gone to draw the ball and hit a stop shot, or vs verse?

It is extremely difficult to maintain acceleration & accuracy consistency with a tight grip and de-accelerating pool stick. Maybe we can get by with it on a single shot but the game is all about re-producing the same accelerating stroke shot after shot.

Thanks,
randyg

 

[randyg]

I don't know how to say this any other way as you and Randy G. have been given alot of leeway on this subject of what a stroke should and shouldn't be..



I seriously wonder why you have this conviction that your thoughts/opinions are the end of all discussion on this subject.

Actually they are the beginning of all discussions....randyg




If I took into consideration what you say, I couldn't play at a high caliber speed. I'll give an example. You say a person needs to slow down cue speed and have a relaxed grip on the stroke at the cueball?

Sorry, that's not what I said. But I will elaborate on that statement: A relaxed grip at contact with the cue ball will produce a manageable stroke which in turn could be slowed down to get the same desired result......randyg



And that the cue ought to stop at the armpit?

I believe that I said CHEST. Doesn't matter where, just re-produce it on every normal shot. We call it," taking your stroke HOME" naturally.....randyg



And the cue should end up on the table at the finish? I just want your views before I continue ..

Well the cue stick should have some sort of ending position. If it doesn't, how would you grade the entirety of your stroke?????
The cue stick finishing on the table is part of each individual stroke. Some do-some don't, BUT they always finish in the same place. My tip doesn't touch the table on every stroke BUT it does finish 5 1/2 inches on the other side of the cue ball on every normal shot. And pointing to my target.....randyg




Hope I can shed some light on the subject....randyg

 

[Celtic]

[/COLOR]

Sure, that's what I do for an occupation.

Let's start with Physics. Any time you are going to stop your cue stick on purpose, the cue stick has to start slowing down before it can stop. Here is the problem.....when does it start de-accelerating? Have we never gone to draw the ball and hit a stop shot, or vs verse?

It is extremely difficult to maintain acceleration & accuracy consistency with a tight grip and de-accelerating pool stick. Maybe we can get by with it on a single shot but the game is all about re-producing the same accelerating stroke shot after shot.

Thanks,
randyg

Yeah, I agree with all of that completely. My question was which particular strokes you thought he was actually de-accelerating on prior to contact, because IMO he was accelerating through every single shot at the point of contact, the de-acceleration was after contact, and not a player in the world has figured out a way to avoid de-acceleration after contact, to the benefit of many people who would be shishkabobs in the pool hall were this not to be true.

If you could tell me a specific stroke at a specific time in the video that you think he was clearly de-accelerating at contact I am actually interested to know which stroke it was and what you are basing that on. You might actually be right, it might be something I will look into in my own game, but as it stands I am not seeing de-acceleration prior to contact on a single shot on the video, and I watched it again looking for nothing but that after reading your initial post stating it was there.

 

[randyg]

Check out StrokeAnalyzer. The best tool for analyzing your stroke in detail.

And what would be looking for?
randyg

 

[justnum]

I can offer training. I can train you to become a professional pool player, just PM.

Part of my training will include how to register for tournaments, how to keep amateur status, how to find good matches and how to find new tournaments.

 

[randyg]

I know full well what they teach, I have taken lessons from one of the most famous BCA certified instructors. I don't agree with alot of the teaching methods, especially when it comes to expereinced players.



Sorry to hear that. Did you get a re-fund?
Anything specific you would like to dwell on??
randyg


What is your problem Neil, you think everyone should be positive little ass kissers? Noone can have a differing viewpoint on things? If you are not part of the "yes" crowd then your voice should be censored, you should be encouraged not to speak? Too bad you live in America I guess, perhaps some place in the Middle East would be more to your liking, people there can be killed for voicing differing viewpoints. People here on the other hand have the right to disagree and the right to vocalize that disagreement. If you don't like that then tough luck.

Have to agree 100%.....randyg

 

[randyg]

Yeah, I agree with all of that completely. My question was which particular strokes you thought he was actually de-accelerating on prior to contact, because IMO he was accelerating through every single shot at the point of contact, the de-acceleration was after contact, and not a player in the world has figured out a way to avoid de-acceleration after contact, to the benefit of many people who would be shishkabobs in the pool hall were this not to be true.

If you could tell me a specific stroke at a specific time in the video that you think he was clearly de-accelerating at contact I am actually interested to know which stroke it was and what you are basing that on. You might actually be right, it might be something I will look into in my own game, but as it stands I am not seeing de-acceleration prior to contact on a single shot on the video, and I watched it again looking for nothing but that after reading your initial post stating it was there.

When I get a chance I will review that vid again....randyg

 

[Celtic]

When I get a chance I will review that vid again....randyg

thanks man.

 

[Neil]

...............

 

[Celtic]

Yeah, what a bunch of bull. You constantly attack people, and don't try and deny it. You have done it constantly in the CTE threads. I have attacked you and your B.S., but only after being attacked by you first.

A) I have hardly posted much on the CTE threads, I tend to avoid them. I took part briefly in one of them, discussing things with JB, not you. I might have 3 or 4 posts having anything to do with CTE EVER on this forum.

B) I have never engaged a conversation with you at all. You always initiate discussion with me, I will post on a topic not speaking to you whatsoever, and you then decide you don't like what I said and instead of debating the issue instead attack my intelligence or knowledge without any actual rebuttle, much like in this very thread. Please attempt to find a single time that I initiated conversation with you, it will be tough, I try to avoid discussing anything with you at all costs as most of your posts are akin to your contributions in this thread, virtually non-existant from an information or discussion standpoint and instead just reactionary attacking posts aimed at people you disagree with. I honestly would like nothing better then to never communicate with you on this board again because I cannot remember a single time you ever actually talked about the topic at hand and instead jumped right out on the first post aimed at me making it clear how much you dislike me.

I am OK with you disliking me, totally cool with it, can we leave it at that and call it the one and only thing we agree on and never have any direct dialogue again?

 

[luckwouldhaveit]

thanks man.

I'm looking forward to this too!

 

[randyg]

You asked, here is my opinion.

You hit every stroke with a de-accelerating cue stick. Watch your back hand come to a sudden stop at contact with the cue ball. That in turn causes a very tight grip, which you have. To fix this problem, allow your back hand to finish up on your body (chest) with a light grip.

Over all....not bad.
randyg

I have just re-viewed this vid. I stand by my earlier findings. It was hard to slow this thing down but the same problem is still there. TIGHT GRIP.

Let me share a quote with all of you nice people.

“A death grip on the butt end of the cue tends to deaden the action of the cue ball.”
Willie Mosconi, BCA Hall of Fame & 16 time World Champion.


randyg

 

[Black-Balled]

I hope I never have to see mine. It would prob be scary...friggin stick wiggling around all over the place! I seen it out of the corner of my eye when I was shooting!

 

[canwin]

You asked, here is my opinion.

You hit every stroke with a de-accelerating cue stick. Watch your back hand come to a sudden stop at contact with the cue ball. That in turn causes a very tight grip, which you have. To fix this problem, allow your back hand to finish up on your body (chest) with a light grip.

Over all....not bad.
randyg

Why is a tight grip at the moment of contact when the cue ball is rolling an error?

 

[canwin]

I have just re-viewed this vid. I stand by my earlier findings. It was hard to slow this thing down but the same proplem is still there. TIGHT GRIP.

Let me share a quote with all of you nice people.

“A death grip on the butt end of the cue tends to deaden the action of the cue ball.”
Willie Mosconi, BCA Hall of Fame & 16 time World Champion.


randyg

Mosconi was a straight pool player and his statement was based on straight pool, not 9/10 ball. Mosconi never had to deal with alot of long shots with cue ball movement. Your description of a tight grip is vague.
I think your all inclusive statements get you into trouble and your meaning becomes inscrutable.

 

[canwin]

Well the cue stick should have some sort of ending position. If it doesn't, how would you grade the entirety of your stroke?????
The cue stick finishing on the table is part of each individual stroke. Some do-some don't, BUT they always finish in the same place. My tip doesn't touch the table on every stroke BUT it does finish 5 1/2 inches on the other side of the cue ball on every normal shot. And pointing to my target.....randyg




Hope I can shed some light on the subject....randyg

I think your analysis of anyone's stroke should end at the moment of contact and the qball is rolling because want happens after the qball is gone is irrelevant over anaysis. You want to simplify the equation and not make it any more complex. You get yourself in trouble when you use the word every, as in every normal shot. If you're going to use the term normal shots then you're going to have to include what you would call not normal shots.

 

[Scott Lee]

canwin...You're certainly entitled to your opinion, however biased it may be. My advice is not to seek instruction from any qualified instructor, because they will tell you the same thing...a tight grip ruins the "feel" of using the weight of the cue, and personal timing, to create stroke speed, regardless of what game you play.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Mosconi was a straight pool player and his statement was based on straight pool, not 9/10 ball. Mosconi never had to deal with alot of long shots with cue ball movement. Your description of a tight grip is vague.
I think your all inclusive statements get you into trouble and your meaning becomes inscrutable.

 

[canwin]

I have just re-viewed this vid. I stand by my earlier findings. It was hard to slow this thing down but the same proplem is still there. TIGHT GRIP.

Let me share a quote with all of you nice people.

“A death grip on the butt end of the cue tends to deaden the action of the cue ball.”
Willie Mosconi, BCA Hall of Fame & 16 time World Champion.


randyg

You hit every stroke with a de-accelerating cue stick.

What significance does a de-accelerating cue stick have versus the other? How did you arrive at that?

 

[canwin]

canwin...You're certainly entitled to your opinion, however biased it may be. My advice is not to seek instruction from any qualified instructor, because they will tell you the same thing...a tight grip ruins the "feel" of using the weight of the cue, and personal timing, to create stroke speed, regardless of what game you play.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

A firm grip is what I'm talking about and not a tight grip..which will not ruin the feel of any weighted stick. How can you explain shooting a long shot where you have some cueball movement needed and have a relaxed loose grip versus a firm grip. You can't feel with a loose grip as the cue would slide through you hand. My analogy would be that I've never seen a relaxed loose grip golf shot that required any distance and control.

 

[canwin]

[/COLOR]

Sure, that's what I do for an occupation.

Let's start with Physics. Any time you are going to stop your cue stick on purpose, the cue stick has to start slowing down before it can stop. Here is the problem.....when does it start de-accelerating? Have we never gone to draw the ball and hit a stop shot, or vs verse?

It is extremely difficult to maintain acceleration & accuracy consistency with a tight grip and de-accelerating pool stick. Maybe we can get by with it on a single shot but the game is all about re-producing the same accelerating stroke shot after shot.

Thanks,
randyg

You say that you need a de-accelerating stick before you get to the cueball and the last sentence you say you need an accelerating stroke?
How did you ever come to ask yourself about a de-accelerating stick and equating that with not getting the desired effect on the qball?