First Time

BlackMamba

BlackMamba

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Greetings all!

I've been playing pool for about 15 years and up until this year, I've always played with production cues like viking, meucci, and predator. I recently got a bit of a wild hair and traded into a pair of Gilbert customs, then traded those for a very nice Josey custom. The reason for my post is because I am looking for a hobby. I would like to make a few pieces of equipment for myself. I already have the leather and most of the materials that I need to construct my case. I've also drawn blue prints with shapes and dimensions of the finished product. Once I finish that (about a month or so out because of the tooling) I will be looking to start construction on a cue.

The reason for this "10 mile" post is because I honestly don't have a clue where to start, what equipment I would need, etc. I've always been very good with my hands, and I learn very quickly so I don't think actually doing the work will be the issue as much as knowing what work to do... For example, I became the "go-to-guy" for shaft/ferrule/tip maintenance in my locale after I knocked the tip off of my girlfriend's break cue and had to put a new one on before I got in trouble! :rolleyes: But anyway, I know there is a ton of knowledge out there, so I figure that its time to ask!

***Note: I have absolutely NO PLANS to start making cues to sell, I simply just want something to engage myself in so that I stay out of trouble***
 
BlackMamba said:
But anyway, I know there is a ton of knowledge out there, so I figure that its time to ask!

***Note: I have absolutely NO PLANS to start making cues to sell, I simply just want something to engage myself in so that I stay out of trouble***
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More correctly, it's time to read.
To the best of my knowledge, everything pertaining to the construction of a cue has already been addressed in this forum.
Start at pg.1 and read forward until you start reading your own posts.

I'll answer specific questions but I won't teach someone to build cues.
At some point you're going to have to put in the effort.
In this case, it's starts by reading and doing searches.
You'll be amazed at how many fewer questions you will have.

I wish I had a dime for every time I heard someone say: "I have absolutely NO PLANS to start making cues to sell".
Sell or don't sell, it makes no difference to me.
Consider though that an investment of 10-grand +/- might be a considerable outlay for a 'hobby' that you have no intention of receiving a return from.
Even if you were 'rolled-up' big time, it's a bad investment.
 
and this is how it starts lol

first off how much room do you have and whats your budget???
2 very important things.

PM sent
 
BlackMamba said:
Greetings all!

I've been playing pool for about 15 years and up until this year, I've always played with production cues like viking, meucci, and predator. I recently got a bit of a wild hair and traded into a pair of Gilbert customs, then traded those for a very nice Josey custom. The reason for my post is because I am looking for a hobby. I would like to make a few pieces of equipment for myself. I already have the leather and most of the materials that I need to construct my case. I've also drawn blue prints with shapes and dimensions of the finished product. Once I finish that (about a month or so out because of the tooling) I will be looking to start construction on a cue.

The reason for this "10 mile" post is because I honestly don't have a clue where to start, what equipment I would need, etc. I've always been very good with my hands, and I learn very quickly so I don't think actually doing the work will be the issue as much as knowing what work to do... For example, I became the "go-to-guy" for shaft/ferrule/tip maintenance in my locale after I knocked the tip off of my girlfriend's break cue and had to put a new one on before I got in trouble! :rolleyes: But anyway, I know there is a ton of knowledge out there, so I figure that its time to ask!

***Note: I have absolutely NO PLANS to start making cues to sell, I simply just want something to engage myself in so that I stay out of trouble***
Click to expand...


any pictures of those gilberts you had? sounds like you've worked your way through some really nice cues!
 
I'd be more concerned about buying wood at this point. Once you get a wood supply going you have a year or so to start acquiring machinery. No need to get fancy. I did everything on a old SouthBend for quite a while. Tapered with the tailstock offset, did joint work with a steady rest and bearing etc.
 
Unfortunately, I don't have any pictures of the gilberts. But here is the Josey that I traded them for:
 

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Would Chris Hightower's deluxe cue makers lathe or the portable one with the right attachments do that job? Its considerably less than 10,000 priced at around 3,000 for the deluxe and less for the portable one.
 
Technically a skilled and/or determined craftsman can build a cue with elementary equipment such as portable repair lathes. But you'll be limited in what you can do. The Hightower Deluxe would be a much better choice.

Now you buy a lathe. What can you do with it? You'll need a way to cut wood. This means a bandsaw and a tablesaw. If you are fitting any pieces together besides joint faces, then you'll also need a belt sander. You'll need good routers and good router bits. Dust collection is a must. If only building a couple of cues, then a large & powerful shop-vac will be ok. As Murray stated you'll need wood, lots & lots of wood. You need a place for all this equipment and wood. You need work benches, lots of paper towels & other misc. items. We're quickly approaching $10,000. Can't forget hardware such as phenolics, ferrule materials, joint pins, connecting hardware, etc. You need high grade adhesives, which aren't cheap. If you are going to do wraps, points, inlays, etc. then you'll need about half a dozen or more different types of adhesives. With adhesives you need thinning/cutting chemicals for clean-up & such. You'll need very good bright lighting. I'm sure i'm missing some things but this is basically what you need if you want to start building cues even as a fun hobby.

There's a reason I tell people that I don't build cues for profit. I can "afford" to build cues. That's not untrue for any builder. Profit comes much, much later after you have already dumped tens of thousands in equipment & materials. Most builders NEVER recover their costs. I'm very much serious about that. Sad but true. Not only will you incur huge expenses that you most likely will never get back, but now you have to learn how to use all this stuff you got. With that learning comes expensive mistakes and injuries. And heaven forbid a machine breaks down. Can you fix it or will you have top pay for repair? There simply is no such thing as econo-cuemaking.

Once you go through this you'll understand why the accomplished builders aren't so quick to offer up their minds to somebody who is just starting. It takes a long time for a builder to reach the point of making money and he's not going to be in a hurry to help somebody step in and compete with him for the income he has worked so hard & paid so much to earn. It's nothing personal & i'm sure it's something you maybe hadn't considered. Lots of people don't. Cuemaking is a fantasy job for those of us who love cues. But trust me, there's nothing fantastic about it unless you can afford it. I know too many miserable builders who love building cues & can't pay their mortgage. It's sad.

So my advice is give heavy consideration to this decision and be absolutely sure it's all done on expendable finances & not money you or your family needs for survival. Then dive in and learn the hard way through experience. It's the best way to learn. Sincerely, good luck. Sorry for the long post.
 
You guys have all be very helpful! I honestly didn't expect to get this much positive feedback... I understand that most cuemakers would see this as an intrusion. I've got a couple motorcycles that I need to sell off. I think I'm going to consider this some more and then if I still want to make this investment, I will contact some of the AWESOME Azers that have been kind enough to give me advice.
 
lets be honest here is you just want to start building cues you can do it with a hightower deluxe and a cheap sander, table saw, 5 min epoxy and by ordering a couple pieces of material here and there, if you go with used equipment you can make a cue for under 2500 bucks im sure. and for a hobby person a bunch of wood isnt needed right away you can buy blanks and finiah turn shafts and go that way just to get yout feet wet.

PM sent
 
Aside from a sneaky that has high grade 5-minute epoxy holding the joint collars & buttcap, I want nothing to do with a cue built with 5-minute epoxy. You can cheap out all you want & suffer the consequences or you can do it all correctly from the beginning & actually give yourself a chance at succeeding. Like I said, there's no such thing as econo-cuemaking. Pay for it now or pay for it later. Either way will cost you.
 
qbilder said:
Technically a skilled and/or determined craftsman can build a cue with elementary equipment such as portable repair lathes. But you'll be limited in what you can do. The Hightower Deluxe would be a much better choice.

Now you buy a lathe. What can you do with it? You'll need a way to cut wood. This means a bandsaw and a tablesaw. If you are fitting any pieces together besides joint faces, then you'll also need a belt sander. You'll need good routers and good router bits. Dust collection is a must. If only building a couple of cues, then a large & powerful shop-vac will be ok. As Murray stated you'll need wood, lots & lots of wood. You need a place for all this equipment and wood. You need work benches, lots of paper towels & other misc. items. We're quickly approaching $10,000. Can't forget hardware such as phenolics, ferrule materials, joint pins, connecting hardware, etc. You need high grade adhesives, which aren't cheap. If you are going to do wraps, points, inlays, etc. then you'll need about half a dozen or more different types of adhesives. With adhesives you need thinning/cutting chemicals for clean-up & such. You'll need very good bright lighting. I'm sure i'm missing some things but this is basically what you need if you want to start building cues even as a fun hobby.

There's a reason I tell people that I don't build cues for profit. I can "afford" to build cues. That's not untrue for any builder. Profit comes much, much later after you have already dumped tens of thousands in equipment & materials. Most builders NEVER recover their costs. I'm very much serious about that. Sad but true. Not only will you incur huge expenses that you most likely will never get back, but now you have to learn how to use all this stuff you got. With that learning comes expensive mistakes and injuries. And heaven forbid a machine breaks down. Can you fix it or will you have top pay for repair? There simply is no such thing as econo-cuemaking.

Once you go through this you'll understand why the accomplished builders aren't so quick to offer up their minds to somebody who is just starting. It takes a long time for a builder to reach the point of making money and he's not going to be in a hurry to help somebody step in and compete with him for the income he has worked so hard & paid so much to earn. It's nothing personal & i'm sure it's something you maybe hadn't considered. Lots of people don't. Cuemaking is a fantasy job for those of us who love cues. But trust me, there's nothing fantastic about it unless you can afford it. I know too many miserable builders who love building cues & can't pay their mortgage. It's sad.

So my advice is give heavy consideration to this decision and be absolutely sure it's all done on expendable finances & not money you or your family needs for survival. Then dive in and learn the hard way through experience. It's the best way to learn. Sincerely, good luck. Sorry for the long post.
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BlackMamba,

I agree with everything QBuilder writes, but don't take him the wrong way - he and ALL the guys here offer up good advice and help to those who ask. But, you'll get a better response if you have read all that you can and have tried it yourself first. "I tried this, and it didn't work, what did I do wrong?" will get you a MUCH better response than "Teach me how to build a cue."

Chris Hightower's (Cueman) book and DVD's are a great first inexpensive step down the learning path.

My 2 cents

Gary
 
qbilder said:
Aside from a sneaky that has high grade 5-minute epoxy holding the joint collars & buttcap, I want nothing to do with a cue built with 5-minute epoxy. You can cheap out all you want & suffer the consequences or you can do it all correctly from the beginning & actually give yourself a chance at succeeding. Like I said, there's no such thing as econo-cuemaking. Pay for it now or pay for it later. Either way will cost you.
Click to expand...

i know 5 minute is not the way to go but for a first time builder or someone just trying to see if they want to continue building cues, using 5 minute epoxy on a sneaky for a joint pin, butcap and joint collar really wont hurt anything especially your wallet unlike west system and all the other glues one purchases over time.

my very first cue from blocks of wood to finish product didnt cost me over 35 bucks and was put together with nothing but 5 min epoxy. and it plays great and i learned alot form it. a week later i was hooked and bought damn near every glue i ever read about for cue making along with every piece of wood i could find. and the craigslist machinery hunt began :thumbup:

tons of $$$$$$ later i still dont have even half of what i want lol
 
Trent said:
i know 5 minute is not the way to go but for a first time builder or someone just trying to see if they want to continue building cues, using 5 minute epoxy on a sneaky for a joint pin, butcap and joint collar really wont hurt anything especially your wallet unlike west system and all the other glues one purchases over time.

my very first cue from blocks of wood to finish product didnt cost me over 35 bucks and was put together with nothing but 5 min epoxy. and it plays great and i learned alot form it. a week later i was hooked and bought damn near every glue i ever read about for cue making along with every piece of wood i could find. and the craigslist machinery hunt began :thumbup:

tons of $$$$$$ later i still dont have even half of what i want lol
Click to expand...

I've found little, if anything that I would use 5-min epoxy on a cue. I used G-5 for some time on things such as deco-rings and butt caps and have seen too many failures down the road. Why not use a good, full strength epoxy? It doesn't cost any more than 5-min and sometimes is cheaper.

Dick
 
If there's one thing that I've learned over the years I spent in automotive customization and repair, its that you never skimp on materials. I've had 5 minute epoxy hold for years, but I've had 5 minute epoxy hold for a few hours. Its kind of hit and miss, but I'd rather bet my money on the long horse and go for a slower drying, more quality epoxy.

I also need to make an apology to all of the Azers that have taken time to post in my thread and give the advice that they were willing to give. I do want to apologize sincerely if I came across like I was looking for an "easy access" door to the cue building world. I definitely did not come into this thread with the intention of probing for trade secrets or construction techniques as I understand that these are things that one must come by naturally. I was really just looking for some direction on what EQUIPMENT was necessary to build a cue and possibly where I could acquire these tools from.

I was a mechanic for many years in my younger days and through those years, I worked with several younger mechanics that loved the work, but didn't have the tools. It seems like each one did exactly as I had done before them, and used whatever tools they could find laying around at home or in the shop. But eventually, these young mechanics would do exactly as I had done with the older mechanic that I worked with and the phrase, "So I've been working here for awhile, and I think its time that I start buying some of my own tools." Then they would ask, "Could you come on to the tool truck with me on Wednesday and help me figure out the basic set of tools that I would need to do my job?" And every time I got asked this, I would accompany the new mechanic onto the tool truck, just as my mentor had done for me.

This is kind of the scenario that I was hoping to raise by posting this thread in the first place. I didn't mean to ask for any help in building the cue, simply what basic equipment is necessary to build a cue or two to see if I could instate this as a long term hobby. Again, I am very sorry for any mistakes that I have made, and any lines that I have crossed. I hope that I haven't stepped on anyone's toes with my thread.
 
Don't sweat it. You got nothing to apologize for. There's no lines to cross. You should never feel on edge about asking questions. You may not like some of the answers but 99% of the answers are not maliciously intended, only the point of view from a person. If somebody didn't think the info they offered would help, then they likely wouldn't post at all. I probably come across more abrasive than most because i'm non-diplomatic about my approach. I'd rather use my words for a purpose other than making you feel all warm & fuzzy. That doesn't mean i'm being a jerk. It just means i'm cutting through the BS & telling it straight. If I were to come on here & tell you for a few grand you could be building world class cues, i'd be lying and i'd feel guilty when you failed miserably. If I tell you it's too hard for you & you can't or won't want to afford it, but you still press on & become a good cuemaker then you are a determined fellow & likely will add something positive to the cue building world. That's a good thing. Point being, I have found that explaining to people in a very clear manner what they will be up against, most are able to then accurately assess their situation & walk away because it's a stress they don't need. Only the nuts pursue it and most of them fail & go broke. The few survivors expand the craft. There's no reason to sugar coat things when all of us builders see many, many of our comrades suffering.
 
Well believe it or not, I appreciate the "rough and rumble" approach. Its kind of what I'm used to from my dad and grandfather. Plus I'm prior military and they don't exactly hold your hand and give you teddy bears there either. If I had a dime for every time I have had my feelings hurt, I'd have about enough money to buy a stick of gum... maybe a 1/2 stick. :D

So here's the plan though: Sell both of my motorcycles, sell off one of my cues, make my new case, sell off my old case. Then start the search for an affordable &/or used lathe... Trent has one that he says is similar to the Cue Smith Deluxe that he is looking to sell, so thats one possible avenue. I think to start off, a lathe like the cuesmith deluxe is the best route. Then I will have much more spare money for accessories, attachments, and materials.
 
You won't go wrong with the Deluxe. Chris is right there to help you through every time you have an issue. He stands strong behind his products. There are things that can be added as well, such as the threading attachment, that are upgrades for a later time when & if you are in a position to step up. But the machine right out of the crate will do everything cue related except for cut wood threads and inlays. And both of those can be done with add on attachments. It has the butt taper bar and the shaft bar, plus an anodized aluminum bed. Don't be fooled into thinking the steel bed is harder or stronger than anodized aluminum. It's not. It's only heavier, which in general machine terms means better but not in this case. It's softer & less stable than the aluminum.

If you do find a used machine, be sure to look it over really well for a smooth & clean running bed. I'm not trying to knock anybody's sale of a machine but if it were me, i'd buy new from a manufacturer that has a reputation for standing behind his products. I have been burned before so it's worth the money to me to just buy it new from the best supplier & be done with it. That may or may not be a lesson you'll have to learn on your own.

You'll want a bandsaw. I'd recommend two. A small 9" $100 saw for the small stuff & general purpose cutting in the shop, then at minimum a 14" saw for bigger cuts. No matter, keep fresh, sharp blades & don't buy cheap blades. The saw is only as good as the blade you use. A tablesaw will be needed if you intend on processing lumber into turning squares, and you will. A good miter saw will then come in to play as well. Yes you can "get by" without some of this stuff but trust me once you have it you'll never understand why somebody would ever try without it. It's all staple machines. You'll want a belt/disc sander with a 90 degree fence. You can buy it like that or you can fabricate a fence. The fence is for squaring point stock and other various tasks. Be sure you have adequate dust collection if you want to survive long enough to enjoy building cues. Enough said about that. Wood is dangerous in micro particle dust form. It'll kill you. Be sure to have good hearing protection, eye protection, breathing protection, and nitrile rubber gloves for protecting your hands from epoxy, cyano, etc. The adhesives WILL penetrate your skin pores & work your nervous system over. Just ask Bob Meucci about that. Cuemaking has many dangers that are often ignored by newbs. Don't be one of those guys.

Good luck on your venture & have some fun.
 
Don't be put off by the gruffness. It just seems that once a month, someone comes here asking about making thier first cue. 15 months ago that someone was me. Might be time for Mr. Wilson to put a sticky in this fourm about " Building my first cue". Lots of great advice has been posted on this thread and has been posted on past "building my first cue thread". It would be nice to have them all at the top of the page.

Welcome to the addiction. I know you said you only wanted to build a cue or two, but it never ends there. Before your first one is done. You will be thinking of things you would have done better. Then you will want to do a prettier one. Next thing you know you will be whoring your last cue out at the local pool hall so you can buy wood for you next cue. I know. I've been/still am there. One of the hardest things to decide is what to spend your money on first. I would recommend spending some time visiting some makers shops. See first hand what people are using to make cues. Then you will have a better idea what you will need. I am not to far from Lawton. If you are up to a drive, I can show you what my $10,000 has been spent on. Might save you some money or time.

Larry
 
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