Flat tip vs. Radius

i think chalk gives friction and grab to the tip
so i think the extra surface area wins
i dont think your question is representative
icbw
and its time for dinner....:)


All things being equal, the higher the angle the better chance of CB deflecting away from CB - so, does the extra surface area outweigh the change in angle.

Enjoy your dinner ;)
 
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i think chalk gives friction and grab to the tip
so i think the extra surface area wins
i dont think your question is representative
icbw
and its time for dinner....:)
My wife is cooking supper now, and damn, it smells good! I’m gonna be done shooting here, soon.
 
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I had a conversation recently with a top very intelligent player. We discussed that many pros use a tip with a radius but then they purposely flatten the top down so it's just curved around the edge.
The reasoning was that when you use English you only use the edge anyway. And with center ball hits you have a bigger flatter surface making it easier....
I remember the old super slow motion videos from predator back in the 1990s showing that a dime radius was giving less deflection.
Anyone have any data on a really flat tip vs round? TIA!
So that’s why Little Al always had a little flat spot in the middle of the tip. I never understood that until now. You learn something new every day!
 
With a rounder tip, the further away from CB the higher the angle of contact between the tip and the CB. For reference (and only for reference), a flatter tip (50 cent piece?) may contact at 45 degrees while a smaller radius (dime) with the centerline of the cue being in the same place will contact at a higher angle therefore, a more likely chance of a miscue. Not being an ass, but that's simple geometry/physics/whateverthefitscalled.
Because of the CB's rounded surface, the tip can only physically contact the CB in one of two places on the tip:
- the place on the tip where the tip's surface angle matches the CB's surface angle at the intended point of contact, or
- on the tip's edge (or the edge of its flat area)

A more rounded tip can therefore usually hit farther out on the CB (closer to the miscue limit) without causing a miscue.

pj
chgo
 
CONTACT POINT ON CUE TIP

I found AzBilliards after reading Dr. Dave's page Cue Tip Size and Shape Effects. Dave quoted some posts from this forum.

I'm buying a new cue and choosing between either 11.9 or 12.5mm diameter and either a dime or a nickel radiused tip.

I looked at the geometry and chose a 12.5mm diameter and a dime radius.

Different people will weigh the factors differently, but the reason I chose this combination was to move the contact point on the cue tip further from the edge of the tip. All of the other factors I considered were about a wash, but the location of the contact point on the cue tip varied significantly, from 0.8mm to 2.2mm.

My goal here is not to convince anyone of anything. You are probably all better pool players than me. I just thought the drawings I made were interesting and maybe someone would want to see them.

Figure 1.
tip ball contact -1B.png


Figure 2.
tip ball contact -2B.png



These were my goals in choosing between the four options:

1. Minimize spin sensitivity to cue offset. This means I want 1 mm of cue offset to spin the cue ball as little as possible -WHILE STILL being able to attain maximum spin, which is achieved at a 30 degree contact angle on the cue ball. My goal is to reduce unwanted spin due to stroke errors.

==> I found that spin sensitivity is a function of tip radius only, and it doesn't make much difference. A dime tip radius requires 18.8 mm cue offset for maximum spin, and a nickel tip radius requires 19.6 mm; which is about the same.


2. Understand how spin varies with cue offset. Avoid non-linear relationships.

==> I graphed six evenly spread out cue offsets, and their resulting spin angles, for both nickel and dime tip radius. See graph below. I found that both functions were very linear.


3. Make sure the contact point on the cue tip is not too close to the edge. The tip will compress and the contact will expand to maybe 3mm in diameter, -I don't know. But it does seem better if this spot is not on the edge. Maybe it doesn't matter, but it seems better not to be on the edge.

==> I found that this contact point DOES vary significantly with cue diameter and tip radius, from 0.8mm with a 11.9 nickel to 2.2mm with a 12.5 dime. See dimensions below in the second drawing.


4. Additional factors:
  • Tip clearance above the table -> more is better, but they were all about the same.
  • Cue tip mass -> less is better, but the difference looked insignificant.
  • Cue feel through my bridge -> I like 12.5 better, and it's more robust.

So given that I'm an intermediate player, and it would not be easy for me to try a lot of cues before I buy one; I'm just going to base my decision on tip contact point and buy the cue, and then I'll get used to it. -It actually arrived 30 minutes ago :)

I hope my drawings and analysis were interesting. I'm curious what people think of my reasoning, and if I missed anything obvious.

Cheers,

P.S. I also posted a Pool-Shot Physics Demo Robot I helped with at our local high school.
 
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