florida spirit tour

[9balllvr]

Hi All,

This is Andy from the Tiger Planet Pool Tour in Virginia/Maryland area. We've wrestled with most of the points brought up above for the past 6 years.

We generally get around 20 players for our Women's 9 ball events. It seems like the beginning of our season (Feb and Mar) have around 30 and the number drops to 16 during the summer months.

We don't exclude any pros and usually get a couple each event though not in the top 20 yet We have many aspiring pros that welcome the competition. We pay out 3/8 of the field which helps keep most players coming back and probably limits participation from higher ranked pros.

We've also started an 8 ball amateur tour which helps keep players involved that were debating dropping out of the tougher 9 ball events.

The other thing we did about 4 years ago was to switch to a Sunday only Women's event. This really helped with numbers. Lower costs for players even though many come Saturday evening. Easier for the Open division to get to a manageable size using all of the tables on Saturday. We start at 11:00 am Sunday with races to 7 on winner's side and 5 on 1-loss. A 24 player event will finish around 11 pm. We also switched to single set final to 9 which helps get done before the room might close.

During the 6 years, the level of play has gone up tremendously. I'd say about 3 balls easily.

We have a $30 year membership with $15 guest fee for a single event.

Andy

Andy,

I would travel down to your stops, but the Sunday events deter me with work on Mondays - if the women played on Saturday, it would be worth it for me.

9balllvr

 

[jjinfla]

Hey Barbara,
I understand but if you has a reduced rate for women that did not want to join and got more women to play, women that would not otherwise play at all, that only helps you no?
I do not know if the Spirit tours operates the same way wit their membership fees? But $65 is pretty high (the highest I have seen anyway for a mandatory fee) and I think some kind of altenative to entice more players, is a good idea.

I also think charging a higher entry to touring pros is also a good idea, as mentioned by someone else. I know some handicapp tours charge more based on skill level.

The Spiritour flyer shows a $50 membership fee for the year and the entry fee is $50 per player + $15 registration. But keep in mind that many of the women on the Tour have won spots on the WPBA Tour which gives them a chance, albeit slim, to be on TV. Plus a chance to win a lot of money there. So I don't think the fees are excessive.

And the Spirit Tour pays a third of the field.

So, all in all, it sounds like a pretty good deal for the women.

Just have to pray to the pool god to get a good draw.

Jake

 

[Barbara]

Barbara, if you raise the membership fee, will less people show up? I'm only asking because even though $10 is not that much more, we (the hunter tour) have the low fees and yet people still complain about the cost. Our fees are: $20 membersip fee and $30 entry fee (which includes a $5 admin fee). So, I was just curious what you thought.

Melinda
www.hunterclassics.com

Wow. I sure do stand corrected!! Dang Girl, you and I have to talk! I've always wanted to know how you manage to get the playing field to pay for the Qualifier being offered and make that work. Of course, I do know you get a huge turnout at all your events, but still.

Barbara

 

[Barbara]

The Spiritour flyer shows a $50 membership fee for the year and the entry fee is $50 per player + $15 registration.

Jake

What's the registration fee for?

Barbara

 

[sjm]

There are 2 schools of thought about that. One is that the pros should be allowed because if that is the level the regional players want to attain, then they should get used to playing pros at their level.

The other is that to support the poolrooms and get the gals playing in a newbie-friendly atmosphere, the top 16 should not be allowed.

On one hand, I say, "Bring them on!" and on the other, I too see that it could kill the tour's participation. It's hard enough sometimes getting new players to come on out against people like me! Little do they know they get 10 shots per game, lol.

I played in an independent tourney at JOB's and Monica and Helena were there. When I beat Monica on the winner's side, she said, "It really doesn't matter in the long run, we're still going to come in 1st and 2nd." And they did.

You certainly make valid points, and the arguments against allowing the pros to play have been made well in this thread, but I'd suggest there are other considerations.

Let's not forget that the WPBA is an eight event tour. A close friend of mine who is a WPBA touring pro makes these points in arguing that pros SHOULD be allowed to play the regional tour events:

1) an eight event tour offers insufficient earnings opportunities, so players should be permitted to supplement their incomes by competing in the regional tour events.

2) as there can be long stretches without a WPBA event, the pros should be permitted to use regional tour events to keep their games sharp, which will enhance the quality of the WPBA product.

I've always been able to see all sides of this issue, and it's defintiely a tough issue.

 

[akaTrigger]

What's the registration fee for?

Barbara

Maybe that's their admin fee? Like ours is $5, theirs is $15? I'm not sure, just guessing. Barbara, what is your admin fee?

Melinda

 

[poolhall maven]

The registration fee is for mailings, paying a td, phone lines, paper, and any type of expense that it takes to run a tour. The same with the membership fees, it doesn't necessarily mean it goes in their pocket--it goes to expenses.

 

[rackmsuckr]

What's the registration fee for?

Barbara

I agree, if you charged a registration fee in addition to a membership fee, then you might recoup your $1000.

The NWPA (http://nwpatour.com/) charges a $55 membership fee + $45 entry fees, and a $25 late fee.

The entry fees are higher for non-membership entries - $65, which effectively eliminates the smaller trial membership fees, yet helps you make your nut and incentivizes the women to pay for membership.

Then there is the $25 WPBA fee. Everything is payable online through Paypal and due the week before, which really makes it nice.

So far, we have 31 signed up for our tournament for next weekend, and our highest was in the 50's somewhere. I see Aileen Pippen (ex-pro) will be coming. It will be great to see her again.

To help bring in more money for my regional tour, I have volunteered to donate a complimentary cruise/accommodations to the Bahamas for 2. I would be willing to do this for every tour out there that contacts me, male or female.

Details are in the DCC raffle thread, as I donated one there too. It can be raffled off (I have seen the actual raffle tickets sold in the dollar store, in the party section, so there isn't much expense) and given away at your yearend function.

This could be used in all your ads, and announced at every player's meeting. Print a cruise picture from the internet and make up a flyer to display on your tournament table. Put up on your website, and sell tickets from there as well. The cool part is that spectators and even waitstaff can come and buy raffle tickets too. This could potentially garner around $1000, depending on how much you market it and what price you sell them for. The NWPA is working on their raffle to get it ready for the next stop. I think we are setting the price at $5/ticket or 3 for $10, but you can certainly sell them for higher or lower.

The thing is, you will get repeat buyers at every tour stop, so that the fund builds.

Also, just want to mention that if you run a second chance tournament on Sunday, that gets some of the lesser-skilled women back and helps fill the audience during the last matches and makes the room owner happier. Those women should be out of the money to be able to play in the second chance tourney. It causes hard feelings for the first out on Sunday to then go and play in that SC tourney.

We used to give a special door prize to the bracket just out of the money, to keep the newbies coming back. We had so many door prizes, that they just got to pick what they wanted off the table. (Again, the dollar store has some pretty nice items )

Sometimes, the room owner will donate 4 shirts or imprinted items which are just writeoffs for advertising for him. And if they have a pro shop or a restaurant, they might donate a free tape/book or a meal/drinks. A lot of times, they like giving the meal, because it could potentially bring a customer back to his poolroom. We would negotiate that prize in up front when we set up the tournament and it was in the contracts.

 

[akaTrigger]

Just a side note....we recently had an event here in Connecticut for the McDermott Tour and had the $15 one-time option for that event (tour fee) and a $50 entry and it brought out a few more ladies that wouldn't normally play (leaguers) - I think the membership fees deter players if they only intend to play on the tour once or twice. If you were a local gal wanting to just try it out, you have the entry+tour fee+WPBA fee (if you are going to play, might as well). So, I stick by the idea that the one-timers pay a $15 membership fee - they can play as many events as they want without points accruing and each event they play, the pay $15 until they decide to join the tour - at that time, they pay the yearly dues. I have seen a couple of tours like that up here and it works and it brings players/tour revenue that you wouldn't have.

It is late and I am beginning to repeat myself...so goodnight.

Barbara,

I was going to mention this idea again last night, but didn't. We had an idea come our way one time that is related to this and it may really work. Like Sherry is stating well, the local ladies who may only play in their first event ever, the fees are too high for them to try out a tournament. If they have to pay a lower fee (half the membership fee) that first time, then maybe they will play. If they come to another event, they have to pay the other half. The only reason why we didn't apply this suggestion was because our fees are so low already. The only time we might get complaints about the fees is when we go out of state - that's when we the ladies usually only play that event because most of our stops are in Texas, but we still travel to NM and Ok once a year (and used to go to CO). The key to the suggestion we received was to only apply this to "local" players. What does that mean? Within a 50 mile radius? Case by case basis? Completely new player's only local to the area? This is where the sticky part can come in to play. Now that I think of it, maybe that's another reason why we didn't implement it. ha!

The other thing we do, that we should advertise now that I think about, is if someone can't play on Saturday in the main event, they can still come and play in the second chance tournament that we always have on Sunday. We add $100 to the Second Chance event and the entry is $10. If they aren't a member, they still have to pay the $20. This helps two things: the ladies get to play if they couldn't on Saturday due to a priori commitment they had, and for the ladies who were too new to test the waters on Saturday played in the smaller, less intimidating tournament on Sunday.

I hope some of this helps.

Melinda

 

[9balllvr]

You certainly make valid points, and the arguments against allowing the pros to play have been made well in this thread, but I'd suggest there are other considerations.

Let's not forget that the WPBA is an eight event tour. A close friend of mine who is a WPBA touring pro makes these points in arguing that pros SHOULD be allowed to play the regional tour events:

1) an eight event tour offers insufficient earnings opportunities, so players should be permitted to supplement their incomes by competing in the regional tour events.

2) as there can be long stretches without a WPBA event, the pros should be permitted to use regional tour events to keep their games sharp, which will enhance the quality of the WPBA product.

I've always been able to see all sides of this issue, and it's defintiely a tough issue.

For argument sake (because I too can see both sides), there are many tours that the touring professionals can play on that would not hamper the regional tour players from getting on the WPBA. In addition, for example, the NEWT tour has state championships that they can play on. If you look at the tournament calendars, there is pool everywhere, you don't have to come to the regionals to make money. Once you become a touring professional, you have elevated your game to a level that SHOULD be able to run over the regional players - this is not fair to some. Just a thought.

 

[akaTrigger]

The registration fee is for mailings, paying a td, phone lines, paper, and any type of expense that it takes to run a tour. The same with the membership fees, it doesn't necessarily mean it goes in their pocket--it goes to expenses.

Sounds like their registration fee is the same as our admin fee. It goes to postage, paper, some free entries (most improved player, tour champion, etc.), supplies (pens, highlighters, chips, etc.). The supplies are usually one-time buys, but the pens always disappear and we recently lost our entire stock of supplies when the suitcase they were in was stolen from someone's work (including most of the computers in their office). But, that's another story.

For the Hunter Tour, the board members get their entry fees paid for only. No money from the tour or player's EVER goes to the pockets of the board members. All extra money is put into the tour account to help pay for qualifier's in advance, etc.

Melinda

 

[KBP]

Running a tour is no easy job and its costly for the tour directors and owners. We don't make much that's for sure and the only way to recoup some of the money we put out is to charge membership fees. I've reduced my fees due to the gas prices this season and if the gas prices keep going up then I may have to reduce again or figure something else out. But I do love it.
Kay

 

[Barbara]

Maybe that's their admin fee? Like ours is $5, theirs is $15? I'm not sure, just guessing. Barbara, what is your admin fee?

Melinda

What admin fee? What's that? I only charge $30 for a year's membership, am I missing something here?

Barbara

 

[akaTrigger]

What admin fee? What's that? I only charge $30 for a year's membership, am I missing something here?

Barbara

Our membership fee is $20. The entry fee is $30, but $5 of it is an 'admin fee' (or 'registration fee,' like the spirit tour calls it). So, $25 of each entry goes into the prize fund, and the $5 admin fee of each entry goes to the tour. The ONLY way this can be done is to advertise ahead of time what part of the entry fee (if any) is an admin fee. The admin fee (or registration fee) cannot be taken out of the entry fee without advertising because the player's should know what is going into the prize find. Some pool rooms (not tours) call it a 'green fee.'

I like the way the other tours advertise it, like this:

$50 Entry Fee plus $15 Registration Fee.

We advertise it like this:

Entry Fee: $30 ($5 admin fee).

Melinda

 

[amatuer]

I love the recent post from 9balllvr. If the WPBA touring pros need to play tournaments in between the WPBA events, Let them play in mens events which are held all across the country. Since the arguement that playing against tough competition has been made many times in this and other threads, playing against the men would be the best to elevate their games. Look at how it has helped Karen Corr's game playing on the Joss Tour. If they happen not to cash, then they know just how the amateur women playing in the regional tours feel. Barbara , nothing but nice things to say about you . You run a great tour.

 

[jjinfla]

What's the registration fee for?

Barbara

To make some money? To pay for some expenses?

 

[Johnnyt]

I love the recent post from 9balllvr. If the WPBA touring pros need to play tournaments in between the WPBA events, Let them play in mens events which are held all across the country. Since the arguement that playing against tough competition has been made many times in this and other threads, playing against the men would be the best to elevate their games. Look at how it has helped Karen Corr's game playing on the Joss Tour. If they happen not to cash, then they know just how the amateur women playing in the regional tours feel. Barbara , nothing but nice things to say about you . You run a great tour.

I agree. Very well said. Johnnyt

 

[jjinfla]

Once you become a touring professional, you have elevated your game to a level that SHOULD be able to run over the regional players - this is not fair to some. Just a thought.

Very true. In fact didn't Vivian V say she was going to play in 3 Spirit Tours and was going to win all three? And wasn't there some sort of wager?

Actually that is what I think is wrong with pool. There is no real distinction between a pro player and an amatuer player. I think that once a person is elevated to the status of pro player he/she should never be allowed to play in what is an amatuer event. You either are a pro, or you are not. You can't have it both ways.

You don't see it in any other sport.

And there are plenty of open tournaments that they can enter.

Or is it just the fact that once you get past Allison and Karen (okay, maybe a half dozen more) the women pros really are not all that great?

Jake

 

[Barbara]

For argument sake (because I too can see both sides), there are many tours that the touring professionals can play on that would not hamper the regional tour players from getting on the WPBA. In addition, for example, the NEWT tour has state championships that they can play on. If you look at the tournament calendars, there is pool everywhere, you don't have to come to the regionals to make money. Once you become a touring professional, you have elevated your game to a level that SHOULD be able to run over the regional players - this is not fair to some. Just a thought.

So maybe exclude the top 32 in all events but the State Championships?

You have to remember, pool is subjective on any day. I did knock out Dawn Hopkins last year in the NJ SC event. I can recall one instance a few years ago that Karen was put into the B side of the chart in the first round of the NY SC event by a Semi-Pro player (she did come back to win, but still...).

These are all good ideas and thoughts! I thank all the posters! Keep em coming!

Barbara

 

[Barbara]

To make some money? To pay for some expenses?

Oooooooooooooo....

Like to pay for the cost of the stamps and the cartridges and paper for the flyers and the media packages I send out to the membership and prospectivve sponsors....

$5 per player could cover that.

Barbara