For those of you that remember the 80's...

justadub said:
I really wasn't gonna perpetuate this thread any more, but I'm weak. :o

Two things. First, so far as the "instant gratification" and all the gadgets that kids are into today. I challenge you all to ask yourselves this question: "If this was available to me when I was a kid, would I have been into it like they are today?" If you say no, I believe you are fooling yourself. I know for a fact that if I had the internet and video games and cell phones and all that when I was a kid, I'd have been all over it. I think the collective "you" would have been, too.

Secondly, regarding the line "and you want them to get into a game like pool that is nothing but patience and nerves of steel.."... I thought the main complaint regarding pool in this thread was AGAINST patience, ie the safety. So which way is it?

Lastly, I believe SVB, Mika, Mike Dechaine and a bunch of our top players today would qualify as being pretty young. Somehow great pool playing wasn't lost to their generation...

Have fun and play pool folks. Stop complaining about those damned kids. We sound like our parents. Funny how that happens. :rolleyes:
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are you trying to make a point?

This thread is wrong in my opinion.. it encourages bar pool.. swing away.. batter up kind of pool.
 
GGhost i like how you counter zbotiman points by insinuating women play safes, youre a smart guy. if you cant understand why people are not going for 15% outs, then it shows how well you understand the strategy of the game. any game, any table. if you want to play that way it is your choice. im sure if you wanted to play me some 8ball on the bartable, give me the breaks, and i give you 9 games to ten...you would smarten up. or ship the cheese. steve called it right of the bat, smart play wins over showy play - hands down. amazing how many people dont understand common sense.
 
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Big Perm said:
I agree, the 80's were a different era altogether.....I learned the game in the 80's as a kid.....the game was simple - make your shots until all the balls were gone....there was no such thing as a safety, that type of crap got you a black eye, or at the least, not invited back to play on a friends table.....as a "real' player, you played a two-way shot - if it was low percentage, you left the cueball in a spot where you had a reasonable next shot if you made the ball, but your opponent had a tough shot if you missed.......IMHO, the two-way shot is a lost art....

It stayed that way for as long as I remember, until I mostly stopped playing in the late nineties.....you'd see a rare safety, but only if someone truly could not find anything to shoot at.....

Then I returned to the game in 2006, playing socially in leagues to get to know a few folks and compete again.....the climate had totally changed.....I'd see what I'd consider to be a decent player run 2 balls, get just a tiny bit out of line, and play safe.....next turn at the table, same jazz.....and EVERYONE was doing it.....there was a safety a game on every match we played.....even the pro players on TV seemed to do the same - get a little out of line, play safe....God forbid somebody might actually try to bank a ball....

IMHO, pool has lost it's excitement, it's sexiness.....whether at league or on TV, I want to see people go for it.....the art of the 2 way shot needs to come back.....we need banks, and tough cuts, and combos, and everything that makes people want to watch, and makes me want to play.....
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good post brother.....the 2 way is a lost art.....long live one pocket :)

oh by the way to the user who said spitz won 4 gold medals?

Mark "the shark" Spitz won 7 gold medals in 1972 Munich, Germany

thats like saying Earl has only 2 world championships......

-Grey Ghost-
 
jlrowe said:
Great post Grey i agree 100%. It is like a child mentality. I hate handicapping, I know i dont have a chance but you supposed to let me win. That one reason i wont take a spot. I dont care if someone beats my brains out. I wont take a spot. If they offer me a spot after beating my ass, I still wont take a spot. If i have to have a spot i wont play until i feel like i have a chance. With me its always been about how i play not about the money. If i had to do it for the money then it may be different.
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I totally understand where you are coming from. I play in a local tourney where I am generally the top dog. I have to play damn near perfect pool to have a chance of winning. I often find myself thinking "this sucks...these guys can come out, have some drinks, not really try to hard, and still do just fine due to the huge handicap". But then I remember...*I WANT TO BE ABLE TO PLAY PERFECT POOL*. So why not practice doing it? Its only a $10 tourney. I've won a few times, but had to play great to do it. What's wrong with that? The alternative is to *not have* a tourney at all. Pool is in tough shape. Like it or not it is the bangers that are keeping rooms alive these days. So the game has to cater to them to some degree. If you're lucky enough to live near a room with good players and strong tourneys or match-ups...I envy you--be thankful. If not, then you just have to do what you say and play good enough to give weight. Anyone is of course welcome to ask a tournament director to make them the highest handicap they have. So really no one loses in the handicap event, except the guys who play great but don't want to give up weight, and believe that the lesser players should want to come and lose every week. Because let me say again: if you don't want the weight, you don't have to take it. If you do want it, you get it. If you think this makes for lesser pool players...how is this possible? You're either a good player and can't handle giving up the weight, or you're a not so great player that can't handle playing at the highest handicap. In either case, the situation supports the *opposite* of your view. Something to think about...

KMRUNOUT
 
Big Perm said:
.....as a "real' player, you played a two-way shot - if it was low percentage, you left the cueball in a spot where you had a reasonable next shot if you made the ball, but your opponent had a tough shot if you missed.......IMHO, the two-way shot is a lost art....
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This is exactly what I meant when I mentioned that I play 'shot safety'. I learned another term for it today. :grin:

Lisa
 
cjs said:
GGhost i like how you counter zbotiman points by insinuating women play safes, youre a smart guy. if you cant understand why people are not going for 15% outs, then it shows how well you understand the strategy of the game. any game, any table. if you want to play that way it is your choice. im sure if you wanted to play me some 8ball on the bartable, give me the breaks, and i give you 9 games to ten...you would smarten up. or ship the cheese. steve called it right of the bat, smart play wins over showy play - hands down. amazing how many people dont understand common sense.
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The hilarious irony of "common" sense is that "common" is just, well, common. Meaning not that great...

Last weekend I brought the magic rack to my APA 9 ball match. One guy from the other team was about to play a warmup game with me. He picks up the magic rack, holding it with 2 fingers as if not to get any of it on him, looks at it like a soiled diaper, and asks "I have to use this stupid thing?" So I asked him "what is stupid about it, the fact that it works perfectly or that you are unfamiliar with it?" I proceeded to show him how to use it. He then replied "yeah, but it doesn't get them tight." So I asked "how much tighter can you get them than every ball touching? If the balls were made of bubble gum we could smoosh them together..." Luckily he laughed and everything was cool.

The point is, *MOST* people have a real aversion to change. The game of pool, like all things, has evolved. The strategies have developed, so many new things have been added to the game over the years. At one point the break was a smash and hope proposition, whereas now it is a shot that demands extreme skill and precision. Not everyone is up to speed in the evolution department. This of all places seems to be where they need to ask for weight. "I don't get the new way, so I need to play the old way." This becomes the "common" sense. Nostalgia is a beautiful thing...I mean that sincerely. I cherish times from my childhood and sometimes find myself wishing I could go back there, when the complexities of life seemed so simple. Nonetheless, *this* is where and when I am, and I prefer to take the childlike attitude with me, and approach each new development as an exciting new thing that I can discover. That of course takes lots of effort and I often fail, and wish I could go back to the simpler time (simpler because I was comfortable with it). So I feel for the people that wish they could go back to the 80's, I really do. Just try not to let it affect your attitude when you go to the pool room. Pool today needs the players, but also needs the bangers...try to help them, not tell them how much better it was back when...

Hope this makes sense,

KMRUNOUT
 
cjs said:
GGhost i like how you counter zbotiman points by insinuating women play safes, youre a smart guy. if you cant understand why people are not going for 15% outs, then it shows how well you understand the strategy of the game. any game, any table. if you want to play that way it is your choice. im sure if you wanted to play me some 8ball on the bartable, give me the breaks, and i give you 9 games to ten...you would smarten up. or ship the cheese. steve called it right of the bat, smart play wins over showy play - hands down. amazing how many people dont understand common sense.
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Is that why Buddy smoked Grady one pocket back when? B/c he made all the safe and "correct" plays......naw ask grady....buddy just ran the hell out and put grady in a coffin....I'm sure grady is still scratching his head over that since Buddy had no idea what he was doing.....so he just ran out.

Your generalizing worse than me....as if I believe safties shouldn't be part of the game or something lmfao. I'm a one pocket player.

so you want the breaks and your gonna give up 9 games on the wire going to 10? and you think you can win? I'm confused b/c if thats what you were trying to say its laughable. You must be the best 8 ball player in the universe then.

Safties are important.......but you can't shoot the duck if you got no bullets.

Yea yea yea he who runs away lives to fight another day.......today maybe you can't run!

Its like taking a 9 ball player and putting them on the big track playing some one pocket......you safe him to death and then his stroke is in the toilet......when he finally does have to come with something he's got no gas in the tank left.

Jarring a player like that.....thats a safety too ya know.

Ever got stuck in a trap and FIRED OUT OF THE HOLE! Drilling the OB to its destination and having your opponent CRUMBLE to the floor in pieces?

Its like getting punched in the gut.......now you CAN'T BREATH lol

don't be silly incenuating that I think safties have no place.

You can't win if you always go for it but you can't win if all you do is play safe either.
 
Personally, I get where Keeb is coming from. It seems like the game has been diluted somewhat....there was a certain purity to it back in the day.

Back then, more players learned and knew how to use the rails to get themselves out of a tough leave...you had to get creative, and creative thought was required or you weren't going to do well. As I previously stated, there was no running to your case to pull out the ol' jump cue. You learned how to bank and kick, because it was a necessary skill, and you learned how to do it using multiple rails...because sometimes that's what it took. You learned to play a billiard, because quite often you could kill two birds with one stone in doing so. And you learned to play the two-way shot.

And you learned to do it all using a big ol' heavy CB, slow felt, dirty balls, and a wooden rack....often in humid conditions. You learned to do it on a big table, or a bar box, but you learned to do it.

This is precisely why the Filipinos dominated the game for so long...it certainly wasn't pristine playing surfaces and clean balls, and climate-controlled rooms and specialized equipment.

Lisa
 
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ridewiththewind said:
Personally, I get where Keeb is coming from. It seems like the game has been diluted somewhat....there was a certain purity to it back in the day.

Back then, more players learned and knew how to use the rails to get themselves out of a tough leave...you had to get creative, and creative thought was required or you weren't going to do well. As I previously stated, there was no running to your case to pull out the ol' jump cue. You learned how to bank and kick, because it was a necessary skill, and you learned how to do it using multiple rails...because sometimes that's what it took. You learned to play a billiard, because quite often you could kill two birds with one stone in doing so. And you learned to play the two-way shot.

And you learned to do it all using a big ol' heavy CB, slow felt, dirty balls, and a wooden rack....often in humid conditions. You learned to do it on a big table, or a bar box, but you learned to do it.

This is precisely why the Filipinos dominated the game for so long...it certainly wasn't pristine playing surfaces and clean balls, and climate-controlled rooms and specialized equipment.

Lisa
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Thankyou lisa for putting that so eloquently....that was exactly it in a nutshell
 
cjs said:
im not generalizing. you are assuming. you are an ass. youre basing your argument on a one time onepocket match? lol. if you want to play the way you admire you can get 9to10 and you will get smoked. you can trap in 8ball, too. dummy. if you cant runout, why do you try? i wouldnt brag about being a onepocket player if you dont understand simple 8ball strategy. pay attention. spell check is free, you donky.
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Thats an easy way to get banned coming on our forum to start sh*t calling people a** and such. Just for your own benefit don't be like the other knuckle heads we've booted b/c the record is 1 post. Have some respect, you gotta earn that here buddy.

I see your in Lincoln, next time I get around Oklahoma I'm going to try and make it around the time a midwest tour is in Wichita or topeka or somewhere your not scared to meet up so that way you can rack them for a $1000 set giving me 10-9 on the wire on 8 ball with you getting your breaks.

Don't worry I'll be sure to give you a walking stick for the trip back.

Or maybe at the next T-town classic.

Or hell lets just do it big. Put up the thousand and I'll buy you a plane ticket to lafayette, LA for the next White Diamonds tournament. I'll cook you dinner, make sure you got enough weight in you. Then I'll drive us up there and Big Truck can stream your generous $1000 donation for all to see LIVE.

Same applies.....I'll make sure you at least have your drawers on ya while your riding the plane back to lincoln.

I just had a backer of mine from Oklahoma tell me he's got an extra $1000 to put up if you want to make it $2000 a set.

WOOF to the Chihuahua
-Keebie

Kids don't ever let your mouth write checks your butt cant cash........and don't smoke crack

and my spelling is fine....Donky is spelled with an E in it by the way
 
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ridewiththewind said:
Personally, I get where Keeb is coming from. It seems like the game has been diluted somewhat....there was a certain purity to it back in the day.

Back then, more players learned and knew how to use the rails to get themselves out of a tough leave...you had to get creative, and creative thought was required or you weren't going to do well. As I previously stated, there was no running to your case to pull out the ol' jump cue. You learned how to bank and kick, because it was a necessary skill, and you learned how to do it using multiple rails...because sometimes that's what it took. You learned to play a billiard, because quite often you could kill two birds with one stone in doing so. And you learned to play the two-way shot.

And you learned to do it all using a big ol' heavy CB, slow felt, dirty balls, and a wooden rack....often in humid conditions. You learned to do it on a big table, or a bar box, but you learned to do it.

This is precisely why the Filipinos dominated the game for so long...it certainly wasn't pristine playing surfaces and clean balls, and climate-controlled rooms and specialized equipment.




Lisa
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The Pinoys pool enviornment seems very similar to the early to mid 1900's here in the states, that's why they play so well, your next meal may depend on making that ball or that saftey. This type of enviornment breeds great players, our players are only as of late getting back on track because of the competition elsewhere in the world and more events, but in the day to day world of the players here it ain't easy.
 
cjs said:
you deserve an apology, im sorry. im a namecaller...

if you want to try to runout everytime you get to the table you have a bet no other stipulations, you can only play offense. 'they way you admire' is implying that you must go for the out everytime.

im sure we can settle this privately
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no it can't be settled privately now.....you put it up on the TV....so if I did play you, IT WOULD BE ON TV

I never stated that I ONLY play safe.....or that safetys are stupid.

You jumped the gun and tried to make up a gaffe game.

Yea I can only shoot offensive shots.....whats the penalty BIH? lol.....what If I shoot a 2 way shot? HOLY SH*T whats the refs call on that?

your going to soft break and try and play one pocket

its like giving someone the 1,3,5 ball and you get the breaks in 9 ball....you play no push outs and soft break and hook them take ball in hand and run the rack.

Your obviously way too smart for me......but for every out or gaffe you think of I've already been there....dude we TRADED GAFFS FOR THE CASH in the pool hall

If you want to go hustle the little kiddies at the bar you can just gaffe them in a darts countdown game while your at it. Just offer them everything they hit scores double. They can't win.....enjoy yourself.

When I shoot the 2 way your gonna cry, and say foul......were gonna argue b/c thats alot of $$$ posted.....then someone will get hurt off the table(by no means a threat, this is just what happens in these type situations). Thats the gaffe brother, b/c your gaff has holes in it.....and holes don't make for happy customers on either side the fence.
 
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cjs said:
you deserve an apology, im sorry. im a namecaller...

if you want to try to runout everytime you get to the table you have a bet no other stipulations, you can only play offense. 'they way you admire' is implying that you must go for the out everytime.

im sure we can settle this privately
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oh an thanks for the apology, its not a HUGE deal call me whatever people can say whatever they like b/h a keyboard thats why the net is cool..... I've never complained to a moderator as the users hang themselves, but they see it and I've seen it happen to newbies, some of them may have had something good to add here but we will never know.

Its one thing if you've been here a min, b/c man many of us know each other well and you know how friends get lol......it just looks much worse when new people do it, ya just don't have the rope to run with yet......thats what i meant by respect being earned here. Many of us are on here alot and have been for along time and have added alot of good content to this site to make it what it is.......so its our baby, know what I'm saying.

glad you understand.
-Grey Ghost-
 
I have to agree. Nowadays there even schools of pool with distinct styles of approaching the table.

Its like watching a chinese martial arts movie.

See that guy over there, the way he moves into his stance, his pre-shot routine and his pendulum swing Must be a student of SPF :)

How about that guy over there with his east coast straight pool pattern and Tascarella cue. Wouldn't be surprised if he played out of Amsterdam. All that's missing is the Shaolin warrior handshake.:thumbup2:

pooltchr said:
Maybe they learned that smart play wins over showy play.
:wink:

Steve
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Very interesting subject.
Also brings thoughts about comparing players of different eras (were the old time champions better than today's ones etc.)
I never had the privilige of watching big tournaments in USA all these years but I can offer my point of view about Europe:
The distance between champions and the rest of the players has diminished greatly.
This is not only because of changes in rules that were applied in order to sustain participants into tournaments, it has been observed way before.
After mid. 90's due to internet a lot of people found access to instructional material, matches, cue supplies etc. This opened a lot of new doors.
So the middle range players became much much better and this led to extra pressure in the hands of the champions. They can no longer afford to leave chances like in the past and they can no longer play in the same relaxed way they used too..
I believe this applies to world wide player level too in general.
The reality today calls certainly for rules that enable weaker players to win, but imho the better players stay ahead in the long run.
It's only a matter of adjustment to the different rhythm of today's pool.
Thanks,
Petros
 
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