FOULS IN POOL ... Everything You Need to Know

[Bob Jewett]

That’s what I figured. Can you sought the rule for me as well please?

See 6.17, Unsportsmanlike Conduct.

 

[dr_dave]

FYI, I just posted a new set of quizzes that test knowledge and application of pool terminology, physics, and rules. Check them out in the Test Your POOL KNOWLEDGE … Take New Pool QUIZZES thread.

 

[Clusterbuster]

Getting back on topic, does anybody have any rules changes to suggest that are not already listed at the bottom of the rules resource page?

Or does anybody have any questions or comments on the FOULS IN POOL ... Everything You Need to Know video?

Thanks,
Dave

Not a rule suggestion, but more of a general comment… Someone suggested needing a generally applicable template with agreed upon deviations depending on the situation. I’m all for standardizing rules but one consideration for league play in particular is the need to keep play moving along at a reasonable pace. Many, if not most, players hope to get home and in bed at a decent hour. This is a different expectation from people in a tournament or gambling who are expecting to be there as long as it takes or can walk away whenever they like. I expect, for example, that the reason the APA makes players shoot at whichever group of balls they make on the break is to eliminate lengthy decision making on which group to select. I’m sure there are other examples. This is the kind of dynamic that could be expected to arise in a particular situation which the rules should address in something like a section for Special Consideration For League Play. This is different from having a standard set of rules, not having any provisions at all to address particular issues likely to arise and then flying by the seat of your pants.

 

[dr_dave]

Not a rule suggestion, but more of a general comment… Someone suggested needing a generally applicable template with agreed upon deviations depending on the situation. I’m all for standardizing rules but one consideration for league play in particular is the need to keep play moving along at a reasonable pace. Many, if not most, players hope to get home and in bed at a decent hour. This is a different expectation from people in a tournament or gambling who are expecting to be there as long as it takes or can walk away whenever they like. I expect, for example, that the reason the APA makes players shoot at whichever group of balls they make on the break is to eliminate lengthy decision making on which group to select. I’m sure there are other examples. This is the kind of dynamic that could be expected to arise in a particular situation which the rules should address in something like a section for Special Consideration For League Play. This is different from having a standard set of rules, not having any provisions at all to address particular issues likely to arise and then flying by the seat of your pants.

I think the appropriate place for this sort of thing is in league rule summaries, especially since every league insists on having their own separate rules. I wish every league system would use the same WPA "official rules of pool" and just specify the things they want to be different, sort of like I have done here:

pool league rule differences
​

This would make it a lot easier for people in different leagues or for people new to a particular league. It would also help reinforce the "official rules of pool," under which everybody should play. It would also be nice if we could get people to stop using "bar rules."

 

[Bob Jewett]

... especially since every league insists on having their own separate rules. I wish every league system would use the same WPA "official rules of pool" ...

The major (only?) exception in the US is the ACS which has always used the WSR (World Standardized Rules). The BCAPL used the WSR until the BCA sold it and then the CSI/BCAPL rules started to diverge from the WSR a little.

 

[chefjeff]

I think the biggest paradigm-shifting learning points, for people who don't know this stuff already, are related to double hits:
- knowing to look for CB hesitation with a straight shot
- knowing to look for tangent-line motion with an angled shot
and with wrong-ball-first hits:
- knowing when to watch the CB vs. the OB, and knowing what to look for.

These points are demonstrated very well in the video here:

- double hit detection (5:10)
- wrong ball first (12:37)

Please spread the word to your friend and others.

Thanks,
Dave

I've given up calling such fouls.

I sused to stop 'em before they occurred, but now, I just let the bad hit happen and chalk it up to giving my opponent a handicap.


Jeff Livingston

 

[dr_dave]

I've given up calling such fouls.

I sused to stop 'em before they occurred, but now, I just let the bad hit happen and chalk it up to giving my opponent a handicap.


Jeff Livingston

That's your choice. I still like taking advantage of "learning opportunities" to help "less seasoned" players better understand the game and its rules.

 

[chefjeff]

One issue that I'd like to whine (ha) a little about is the rules surrounding cue ball fouls only.

(snip)

Because of these issues, I’d like to see a move to all-ball-fouls rules. Who's with me?!

I'm with you.

I have a tremor so I tend to wack other object balls, particularly left of the bridge. It's a nasty habit now.

Williebetmore called me on it once. He told me, "don't do that." Easier said than done, but I'd play by those rules, for sure, and take the bad hits as a good lesson to "don't do that."


Jeff livingston

 

[dr_dave]

I'm with you.

I have a tremor so I tend to wack other object balls, particularly left of the bridge. It's a nasty habit now.

Williebetmore called me on it once. He told me, "don't do that." Easier said than done, but I'd play by those rules, for sure, and take the bad hits as a good lesson to "don't do that."


Jeff livingston

The WPA "official rules of pool" do specify all-ball-fouls. CB-fouls-only is suggested only as an option for matches where a referee is not present.

 

[chefjeff]

That's your choice. I still like taking advantage of "learning opportunities" to help "less seasoned" players better understand the game and its rules.

I was thinking of a pool buddy when I wrote that. I've played with him for 50 years now. The other night he had a straight-in ob/cb touching shot and there he shot it, straight in with the obvious foul. I just sat there, thinking that I've (and other players) told this guy, at least 50 times---more, that's only once per year--about how to avoid the foul.

He's also the reason I quit playing golf. the 19th hole was brutal when he'd "win".


Jeff Livingston

 

[chefjeff]

With that tremor, I double hit, too, once in a while.

No opponent has called me on those, as they're practically invisible to the naked eye. (hee hee, I said naked)

So, I call them on myself, and I've noticed that my opponents are affected by my honesty. Not sure if it helps my win rate, but I think it does help the game.

Could there be a pool rule that fixes any of that? I don't see one.



Jeff Livingston

 

[Bob Jewett]

The WPA "official rules of pool" do specify all-ball-fouls. CB-fouls-only is suggested only as an option for matches where a referee is not present.

The WPA option (which is actually Regulation 21 and not a Rule), is not perfectly clear. See the current Regulations here:

Rule Regulations - WPA Pool

(Effective 15/3/16) – Click here to download 1. Administrative Discretion 2. Exceptions to the Rules 3. Dress Code 3.1 Men 3.2 Women 4. Ball Rack Template 4.1 Positioning of the Ball Rack Template 4.2 Removing of the Ball Rack Template 4.3 Specification for Ball Rack Template 5. Playing with an...

wpapool.com

I think the following might take care of everything:

21. Relaxed Touch Fouls​

If there is no referee presiding over a match, it may be played with a relaxed form of Rule 6.6 "Touched Ball". Under this change, it is not necessarily a foul to touch an object ball during play. For the touch to be condoned the following must all be true:​

​

1. The touched ball was stationary.​

2. The touch on the object ball was accidental.​

3. Only one ball was touched or moved by that accident.​

4. The touched ball was not contacted by any ball set in motion as part of the shot.​

5. The touched ball was not moved out of the path of any ball set in motion as part of the shot.​

​

After the touch is noticed, play is suspended and the seated player is given the option of restoring the touched ball to its original position or leaving it as is. After that option is exercised, the touched ball is considered to be in normal play as if it had not been touched. If the touched ball falls into a pocket due to the touch, it must be restored.​

​

Note that if the player who touches a ball restores the ball without being requested to do so, he has committed an unsportsmanlike act by intentionally touching a ball in play (Rule 6.17(b)).​

Note that if a player touches a ball but has not yet shot, he should immediately allow his opponent the option of restoring the moved ball. It is to the player's advantage to allow such a restoration prior to the shot since the ball will no longer be "poison".

 

[dr_dave]

The WPA option (which is actually Regulation 21 and not a Rule), is not perfectly clear. See the current Regulations here:

Rule Regulations - WPA Pool

(Effective 15/3/16) – Click here to download 1. Administrative Discretion 2. Exceptions to the Rules 3. Dress Code 3.1 Men 3.2 Women 4. Ball Rack Template 4.1 Positioning of the Ball Rack Template 4.2 Removing of the Ball Rack Template 4.3 Specification for Ball Rack Template 5. Playing with an...

wpapool.com

I think the following might take care of everything:

21. Relaxed Touch Fouls​

If there is no referee presiding over a match, it may be played with a relaxed form of Rule 6.6 "Touched Ball". Under this change, it is not necessarily a foul to touch an object ball during play. For the touch to be condoned the following must all be true:​

​

1. The touched ball was stationary.​

2. The touch on the object ball was accidental.​

3. Only one ball was touched or moved by that accident.​

4. The touched ball was not contacted by any ball set in motion as part of the shot.​

5. The touched ball was not moved out of the path of any ball set in motion as part of the shot.​

​

After the touch is noticed, play is suspended and the seated player is given the option of restoring the touched ball to its original position or leaving it as is. After that option is exercised, the touched ball is considered to be in normal play as if it had not been touched. If the touched ball falls into a pocket due to the touch, it must be restored.​

​

Note that if the player who touches a ball restores the ball without being requested to do so, he has committed an unsportsmanlike act by intentionally touching a ball in play (Rule 6.17(b)).​

That looks good Bob.

Note that if a player touches a ball but has not yet shot, he should immediately allow his opponent the option of restoring the moved ball. It is to the player's advantage to allow such a restoration prior to the shot since the ball will no longer be "poison".

I'm not sure what you mean by this Bob. Often when a player touches a ball before a shot, it is because the touched ball is somehow hampering their bridging or cuing. In this case, it is to the advantage of the opponent to restore the ball before letting the player shoot. In this case, the opponent is restoring the "poison" that is causing the player bridging or cuing discomfort or clearance problems.

 

[Bob Jewett]

That looks good Bob.




I'm not sure what you mean by this Bob. Often when a player touches a ball before a shot, it is because the touched ball is somehow hampering their bridging or cuing. In this case, it is to the advantage of the opponent to restore the ball before letting the player shoot. In this case, the opponent is restoring the "poison" that is causing the player bridging or cuing discomfort or clearance problems.

I suppose it is both good and bad depending on exactly where the cue ball might be going.

 

[VVP]

I tried to bank an OB and had a bad hit and the OB came back after hitting the rail and hit the cue tip and went into a pocket. Is this a ball in hand foul and what happens to the OB that went in the pocket? Does it stay down or is it spotted? Thanks.

 

[dr_dave]

I tried to bank an OB and had a bad hit and the OB came back after hitting the rail and hit the cue tip and went into a pocket. Is this a ball in hand foul?

Yes.

and what happens to the OB that went in the pocket? Does it stay down or is it spotted? Thanks.

If the ball is the 8-ball in the game of 8-ball, that is loss of game. If the touch on the OB with the tip is judged by a referee as intentional, it could result in loss of game (or an even more-severe penalty, based on the player's previous behavior). If not, I think the OB would be spotted, but I am not sure about this. Maybe Bob can confirm.

 

[VVP]

Yes.



If the ball is the 8-ball in the game of 8-ball, that is loss of game. If the touch on the OB with the tip is judged by a referee as intentional, it could result in loss of game (or an even more-severe penalty, based on the player's previous behavior). If not, I think the OB would be spotted, but I am not sure about this. Maybe Bob can confirm.

Thanks! What happens if the OB had stayed on the table? Ball in hand and play the OB from wherever it ended up?

 

[Bob Jewett]

Thanks! What happens if the OB had stayed on the table? Ball in hand and play the OB from wherever it ended up?

Nothing is restored on a foul. Here's the section from the World Standardized Rules:

3.7 Spotting Balls

If the eight ball is pocketed or driven off the table on the break, it will be spotted or the balls
will be re-racked. (See 3.3 Break Shot and 1.4 Spotting Balls.) No other object ball is ever
spotted.

 

[dr_dave]

Nothing is restored on a foul. Here's the section from the World Standardized Rules:

3.7 Spotting Balls

If the eight ball is pocketed or driven off the table on the break, it will be spotted or the balls
will be re-racked. (See 3.3 Break Shot and 1.4 Spotting Balls.) No other object ball is ever
spotted.

Thanks Bob!

 

[dr_dave]

I just posted a new video as part of my "Everything You Need to Know" series that demonstrates everything you need to know about how to identify, detect, and avoid fouls in pool. Here it is:

Topics covered (with YouTube time-stamp links) include:
- legal shot (0:21)
- double hit (3:26)
- double hit detection (5:10)
- double hit avoidance (6:57)
---- small-gap angled hit (7:01)
---- elevated cue (7:14)
---- inside vs. outside spin (7:40)
---- short bridge and stroke (8:22)
---- small-gap grip tighten (8:30)
---- highly elevated cue (8:43)
---- hand against the rail (9:08)
---- reverse stroke with cue resting on table (9:28)
---- frozen CB shots (9:52)
-------- twice-as-full aiming system (10:58)
---- elevated follow shot (11:42)
- wrong ball first (12:37)
---- watching CB motion (12:53)
---- watching OB motion (13:31)
---- 3-frozen-OB proposition (14:10)
- miscue fouls (15:59)
---- herding unsportsmanlike intentional miscue foul (16:47)
---- cue lift unsportsmanlike intentional miscue foul (17:15)
---- unsportsmanlike intentional miscue safety foul (17:38)
---- illegal "scoop" jump shot (17:55)
- push shot (18:37)
---- push past frozen ball proposition (19:37)
- Pool Rules Quiz (20:01)

Please let me know if you have any feedback, comments, or questions. Also let me know if you think I left out anything important.

I wish all league players could somehow be required to watch this video. If they did, there would probably be fewer misunderstandings, disagreements, and arguments. It always shocks me how little most league players (even many good players) know about this important stuff.

Enjoy,
Dave

PS: FYI, all of the rules and fouls in the video are based on the standard WPA World Standardized Rules (the "official rules of pool"). APA, BCAPL, and VNEA league rules deviate slightly, but not by much. A good summary of all important differences can be found here:

differences among APA, BCAPL, and VNEA league rules​

PS: Here's another set of important "unwritten rules:"

"Pool Etiquette" thread
​

PS: Here are some additional videos useful for learning how to both detect and avoid fouls:

And much more information, and many more videos, can be found on the fouls resource page.

FYI, I just added two more videos and other useful links to the original post for future reference.

Enjoy, and please help spread the word to league players you know so they can take advantage of these resources!