Four Contributors To The Death Of Pool

TL;DR, obviously, but you seem to be oblivious to sticking to the point: snooker is NOT popular because of gambling.

Deal with it.

Never suggested such, I was just highlighting your bias for all things snaggletooth.

Snooker is popular (in the UK alone, so no, "enlightened nation(s)" do not watch the game) because since England is relatively shitty at any game or sport that requires athletic ability, you flock to watching indoor pub games, since it's something you can relate to.

"Good/Interesting game" has nothing to do with it. Your "lot" watches darts on television for Christ sake (nothing against darts, I'm a player, but no other country on planet Earth could host a professional darts tour where the players can actually make a living).

It's a cultural thing, not a "well, this game is better than that one," thing.

You fail to acknowledge this fact in your fervor to bash American things. Carry on with your unimaginative banter, but don't act like you are speaking some kind of truth.
 
No, others in that sentence is properly spelled. Why are we talking about something that happened in 1985? I find snooker interesting and watch when I catch it on tv. Is it a superior game? I don't think so. Some people prefer it, some don't. I don't care much for soccer. It bores me. Billions are passionate about it. Good for them. Neither snooker or soccer are superior in any way to most other sports. They're often just culturally relevant to the fan base. Simply put, it's what one grew up with.

It's funny how Ron, the great champion of modernity, exalts past snooker ratings as proof of anything. They stayed up to midnight to watch a snooker final because there was nothing else on the 10 or so channels most people had back then.

Bowling used to draw 20-30 million viewers in its heyday, possibly more, and bowlers made more money than NFL and MLB players. From that ironclad evidence, I guess we can confidently assert that bowling is a far superior game than snooker, since popularity=quality.

I hope Ron also champions other popular trends like Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Twilight (more widely read than Dickens!), speaking in acronyms (oh, he already does that), facebook, twitter as "superior" to everything else due to their popularity.
 
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Interesting article that I thought was worth sharing.


Four Contributors To The Death Of Pool

Pool will die unless we fix this sport
By Matthew Sherman, Billiards Expert

I love this post I found online by Johnny Henson of Baker, Montana. Here it is shared, warts and all. I'm all in as one of Henson's suggested reality show instructors!

Here are a few ideas that I feel could benefit billiards. I feel that billiards should be a high school sport with good instructors at the high school level. I feel that there should be a reality show in which 8 instructors are given 4 low level players of equal ability, 2 men and 2 women. They have one week to train their team. You play a match. The winning teams and instructors move on. Each week a team and their instructor are eliminated. Players nationwide will see the players progressing each week. This will encourage players to seek instruction on their own.

I would like to see 20 major cities put together a 10 player team league each. Have Eastern and Western divisions. 10 matches per week. 100 matches per season. Have matches played in pool halls through out the USA. Matches in all 50 states to broaden the fan base. Have the playoffs on YouTube and ESPN. Just some thoughts.

Johnny is so right and his proposal reminds me of the TK Pool Tour concept I developed with U.S. Open winner, Tom Kennedy. Henson's proposal is also eerily similar to discussions I've had with top pool teacher Dominic Esposito.
Esposito provides frequent billiards drills and lessons here at About.com.

Pocket billiards cannot hold a mere status quo. Like all other participant sports, it has to grow or it will die. Here are the obvious issues as I see them:

* As long as many poolrooms in the U.S. and overseas are also bars where alcohol is served, young people, high school age and under, will avoid the game. Today's fine young players are tomorrow's great new pros. As long as pool halls are also bars-cum-nightclubs and pickup joints, pool will be dying.

* The majority of avid pool players want a smoke free environment to play in. While I don't overly mind smoking in many places such as restaurants and clubs, blown smoke easily soaks into pool table cloth, makes it hard to see the shots in smoky rooms, and most halls are too cheap to provide effective dispersal of smoke via quality ceiling exhausts. Studies and pop polls have demonstrated that even most smokers would rather go outside for an occasional smoke than play in a smoky room. As long as pool rooms smell like ashtrays, pool will be dying.

* It is intolerable to have to give a pool lesson in a room with music blaring. It is awful to have play league games in loud rooms where players cannot hear game scores, called shots or team coaching. As long as room owners are more worried about a few quarters than player sanity, and thus have loud jukeboxes blaring (usually lousy) music in their rooms, pool will be dying.

* Henson's original point, of course, is that players need to develop via lessons. Every golf club, public and private in the United States, has at least one golf pro and likely several assistant pros ready to step up and give lessons. Everyone who has played golf a year or longer has likely taken more than one lesson or a whole series of beginner lessons. This fact remains despite recent reverses in golf's fortunes as a sport overall. Every tennis club likewise has pros who give lessons. Pool has complexities that rival the fanciest golf and tennis shots. Formerly, most every pool hall in the world had a "house man" who would show new players the ropes, give aid on rule disputes, demonstrate the basics and advanced shots, etc. As long as pool players avoid lessons and rely on occasional books or videos to adjust their personal stance, aim and stroke needs, pool will be dying as a sport.

Change these factors! Help save pool as a vital sport.

I know why the game of pool is strong in Holland, the pool halls are not dark and dingey pick up joints, you have to go to a seperate smoking room to smoke, there is always some music playing, but not obtrusively loud, and there are umpteen local coaches / pros who give lessons. It's a pleasure to play over here!
 
"Four Contributors To The Death of Pool in the US" <- this should be the title.
 
No, others in that sentence is properly spelled. Why are we talking about something that happened in 1985? I find snooker interesting and watch when I catch it on tv. Is it a superior game? I don't think so. Some people prefer it, some don't. I don't care much for soccer. It bores me. Billions are passionate about it. Good for them. Neither snooker or soccer are superior in any way to most other sports. They're often just culturally relevant to the fan base. Simply put, it's what one grew up with.

But some are trying to say snooker is only popular because you can bet on it. This is specious reasoning at best. Perhaps they also think soccer is loved by 3 billion people only because you take a flutter on it?
 
Never suggested such, I was just highlighting your bias for all things snaggletooth.

Snooker is popular (in the UK alone, so no, "enlightened nation(s)" do not watch the game) because since England is relatively shitty at any game or sport that requires athletic ability, you flock to watching indoor pub games, since it's something you can relate to.

"Good/Interesting game" has nothing to do with it. Your "lot" watches darts on television for Christ sake (nothing against darts, I'm a player, but no other country on planet Earth could host a professional darts tour where the players can actually make a living).

It's a cultural thing, not a "well, this game is better than that one," thing.

You fail to acknowledge this fact in your fervor to bash American things. Carry on with your unimaginative banter, but don't act like you are speaking some kind of truth.

I'm virtually the only one around here who does speak the truth. The problem is, we have many dreamers and fantasists who have an idealist form of the world, and cannot adapt to how it is in reality. These people, whether on here or npr, get terribly upset when you point out the truth, and try to blame the messenger rather than take the responsibility to educate themselves.

C'est la vie.

As for the rest...whole of western europe watches snooker...growing in east europe...china 30 million players...popular throughout the indian sub continent...established markets in australia/new zealand...yadda yadda.

Darts...not my area of expertise but...popular in western europe...growing eastern europe...pro tour in Australia...pro tour in new zealand...all tours televised on free to air national tv, with audience share greater than even the mighty columbo.

Now, is there any thing else i can help you with, anything at all?
 
It's funny how Ron, the great champion of modernity, exalts past snooker ratings as proof of anything. They stayed up to midnight to watch a snooker final because there was nothing else on the 10 or so channels most people had back then.

Bowling used to draw 20-30 million viewers in its heyday, possibly more, and bowlers made more money than NFL and MLB players. From that ironclad evidence, I guess we can confidently assert that bowling is a far superior game than snooker, since popularity=quality.

I hope Ron also champions other popular trends like Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Twilight (more widely read than Dickens!), speaking in acronyms (oh, he already does that), facebook, twitter as "superior" to everything else due to their popularity.

Is facebook more popular than myspace because of who the sponsor is, or is it because it's a better product?

And you have your answer.
 
I know why the game of pool is strong in Holland, the pool halls are not dark and dingey pick up joints, you have to go to a seperate smoking room to smoke, there is always some music playing, but not obtrusively loud, and there are umpteen local coaches / pros who give lessons. It's a pleasure to play over here!

It is damn pricey though.
 
Shouldn't 'others' have an apostrophe? Anyway, you know i speak proper English, don'tcha? You know that's different from the Amercanised bastardisation you use, right? You realise WE use the correct english spelling and you don't, yeah? Once you've analysed it you may want to apologise. Your colonisation of our language ends here, so analyse this with care, and italicise the differences. Have i emphasised this enough now, or should i generalise a bit more until we harmonise?

As for snooker, could you tell me why 18.5m people - or one third of the entire country - stayed up until past midnight, on a sunday, to watch the conclusion of the 1985 world championships? Were they all at the bookmakers? Perhaps they all had a sudden urge to smoke some embassy fags?


The enlightened nations watch snooker because it's an interesting game. Deal with it.

Oh and Swanson, your spelling is obsolete too so I think you're being a bit inconsistent. Just like my "pool world" is gone so is your language. Ye Olde English is dead. Why? Because the smelly, filthy piss ant little island that still speaks it is as irrelevant as black and white T.V. You might consider our version a bastardized one but at least WE MATTER. If you guys sank into the ocean it would take six weeks for anyone to notice and most would be happy about it. We still rule the world mate. The king is dead, long live THE KING!
 
Get on line, look up Billiard Education Foundation, study it carefully, then come back and tell us its not a good idea. Billiards is played at a college level, why not high school?It can be taught to the kids while removing the bad elements.

On second thought, you are right, it is a bad idea. Joking aside, I see it as an excellent opportunity to give the kids an option to cell phones and computers. Several of the students at my daughter's high school said they would be very interested if the school offered billiards as an after school activity. Would they stick with it, or lose interest? That's the question. Unlike other "sports", it is an activity they can do for a lifetime.

My wife is an administrator at a "special needs" high school (read "juvenile delinquent/gang banger school"). When I told her I might be able to get a couple tables donated to the school she looked at me aghast. She said that would never fly with the higher-ups because of the association pool has with the criminal life they are trying to steer these kids away from.

I thought it was a pretty odd reaction from her because she loves pool and pool players, but apparently this stigma lies deep in the subconscious of the American public. If a diehard railbird thinks this way, what chance would one have getting such a thing by the Board of Education of a public school district?
 
Can we swap that elephant for a red kangaroo, a lion or perhaps my favorite :
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JoeyA

This is laughable... talk about myopic vision.

The writer, obviously an instructor, sees pool's solution as an instructor's dream world, where government provides jobs for instructors in schools and pool halls turn their businesses into training clinics for instructors. I'd assume he'd expect access to these facilities free of charge, because all that instruction is gonna revolutionize the game.... hmmm.. somehow. And naturally, TV production of the sport, via reality shows, would have instructors as the stars. LOL

Not sure what game... one of those breaking competition games I assume, that no one wants to watch on TV.

The elephant in the room is the product.
 
Forty-five years ago the owner of a family billiard room in the city where I live (a Midwestern Big Ten town with 75,000 inhabitants) went to the school board and persuaded it to let some of the boys take pool/billiards as a PE class. Himself an excellent player and a respected local businessman, he provided the instruction. There are at least two local players who still play because of that introduction. One of them is also a superb golfer--not obese. His son has been city amateur golf champion.

When the proprietor closed his room seven years later, the new owner promised that whatever he put in--it wasn't going to be a pool room--it would be a business which would serve the teenagers of the community. Within a year the building was an office-supply store.

Another proprietor here in town had a small room about fifteen years ago. With little else for someone under twenty-one to do legally, the place became a "hangout" for kids from the three area high schools. The proprietor asked the better players to schedule a time when they would give instruction for free to the kids, which the players gladly did. The proprietor let each of the high schools have a corner of the room in which it could put up insignia from its school. I played many times in the room, and it was always an enjoyable experience with no trouble among the kids. I remember some of the adults giving the kids advice about things other than pool--choice of college, tech school versus university, military enlistment, whether to take up welding or not.

When the owner announced he had to close the place because of physical problems and the expansion of the business next door, a large, broad-shouldered young man looked at him, almost with tears in his eyes, and asked, "Where are we going to go?"
 
Video games have been around for decades now. It's time to stop blaming them for all of pool's problems.
 
Three years ago I bought a Gold Crown and put my 8' furniture grade up on consignment. A church wanted it for the youth group. I knocked a bunch off the price and gave them a load of cues and God only knows how many years of chalk. There's hope out there.

BTW, I live in a retirement community and about 10% of the homes have tables in them. Plus the social center is about to open with two more. There are three poolhalls within 5 miles and none of us use them because our basements are much nicer places to play.

Maybe pools not dead, just underground.
 
Video games have been around for decades now. It's time to stop blaming them for all of pool's problems.

Not NETWORK GAMES.
Network games has affected sports participation.
You have no idea how big network gaming is with kids today.
 
While Twitch and DOTA are new, online gaming has also been around for years. The guys I played pool with in college also played World of Warcraft for hours and hours and it didn't stop them from visiting the pool table.

Is there any evidence to suggest that overall hourly usage per day has increased drastically? That the number of raw users has increased drastically? That this usage has come at the expense of pool? That it should be singled out as one of the major problems facing pool, rather than less availability, economic factors, or the lack of pool on TV? Lots of things have exploded in popularity in the recent past other than video games - football comes to mind - are we going to blame that too?

Unsurprisingly, younger people are more likely to play video games: http://www.gov.scot/Resource/Img/150028/0044505.gif

But guess who is also the most likely to play sports? Younger people: https://genderedinnovations.stanford.edu/images/videogames_4.jpg

Video games and other hobbies can coexist.

Even assuming that video games have had a deleterious impact on billiards, I'll revisit my earlier point about who's really to blame here. Who's making video games available to the kids? Parents.
 
I would rather play in a room that you can smoke in.
I can't walk outside in the middle of a match to smoke and get the stress out of a missed shot, but in room i can smoke in at least I can light up one.

My pool hall though has like 20-25ft ceilings and great ventilation, even when I do not go there, if they do not allow smoking, I'll just go somewhere that does.
 
Once again. Nothing is killing the game we love. We are a very tiny part of the leisure time market.

It's very simple.


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