Four Contributors To The Death Of Pool

DaveM

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
There's nothing dramatically different about snooker's game design than any other pocket billiard game. Shoot ball into the pocket, score points.

I spoke about this earlier in the thread, and snooker and cue sports are popular in the UK because of your "pub culture" and weather that has translated into indoor games being more popular than here in the States. It's why Phil Taylor is respected as a sporting legend over there...Even the stalwart bowling, which is pretty tv friendly, has fallen out of favor here.
As an avid dart player, I've thought about this often and wholeheartedly agree. Even texted a dart playing friend of mine yesterday about it. He's from the UK. Says snooker is "network tv" and darts is less popular, " cable tv", if that analogy still works. But dart coverage there is still bigger than pool here.
 

lost

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Good point, maybe we should get rid of the lit club, chess club, and arts & crafts too while we're at it.

That is the most idiotic thing I've heard so far in this conversation. So you believe that if a kid plays pool, he or she won't play or participate in any other activity? How the hell do you conclude that?

That's like saying if you drive a car you will never walk again. WTF kind of brain dead logic does that follow?

Just another example proving what my daddy said to me when I was a kid. He said... "As you grow up you will realize that there's more horses asses than there are horses" :rolleyes:

Good luck to you going to your school board meeting and proposing pool tables in your schools. Let us know how it turns out.

Pool is a game almost exclusively played by adults......in wait for it.....establishments where alcohol is served.

BTW I don't even believe pool is dead which is what this thread is about in the first place. Why is this always being brought up? I can walk down the street to a relatively nice bar and play some pool any time I want to. Same as I did 30 years ago....although in a different town ;-)
 

DaveM

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
BTW I don't even believe pool is dead which is what this thread is about in the first place. Why is this always being brought up? I can walk down the street to a relatively nice bar and play some pool any time I want to. Same as I did 30 years ago....although in a different town ;-)

2 halls closed near me in the past 2yrs. Another has cut its hours, not looking great. Yet another has been closed for a month because it had to change locations. Believe it will reopen. I played at a different place tonite for 3 hrs. Nice room 15 GC's. Only 4 incl mine were in use. Pool may not be dead, but it certainly isn't healthy.
 
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gxman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have 4 pool rooms in my town. The one I frequent is the largest. It has 2 9ft, 18 8ft, 2 barbox. Mostly old brunswick medalist.

They open at 11am and it is a ghost town til around 5p. There are nights that they fill up all the tables.

When I get my table in a few months, I'll shoot strictly at home.
 

3andstop

Focus
Silver Member
Good luck to you going to your school board meeting and proposing pool tables in your schools. Let us know how it turns out.

Pool is a game almost exclusively played by adults......in wait for it.....establishments where alcohol is served.

BTW I don't even believe pool is dead which is what this thread is about in the first place. Why is this always being brought up? I can walk down the street to a relatively nice bar and play some pool any time I want to. Same as I did 30 years ago....although in a different town ;-)

News flash. That's not pool you're playing. Those are little toy bar tables for people who need something to do while they drink. Pool rooms with real pool tables are fading away.
 

Colonel

Raised by Wolves in a Pool Hall
Silver Member
Enough with this nonsense. Enough. It's embarrassing.



Snooker is popular because it is a good game.It was a good game when Lada cars sponsored it. When cigarette companies sponsored it. When Mercantile Credit sponsored it. When Pukka bloody Pies sponsored it. Geddit yet?



Pool is in a timewarp, exemplified amply by a handful of posters on here, who are quite clearly more interested in money and self aggrandisement than they are the sport itself.


Snooker has a well heeled tour because people can bet on it, as a game it's as boring as watching paint dry. As you live in a country where it is the game perhaps it's a stretch to think you have a clue regarding anything about pool in America as you don't live or play it here. Oh and as far as self aggrandizement is concerned if you're attempting to gain it through the use of an extended vocabulary you may want to learn to spell the words you try to impress others with.
 

Buckzapper

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I saw what drove paying customers away from a Family Billiards Room. It was a change of ownership that ushered in new rules about conduct. Now it would be just fine to utter at any volume, a complete string of profanities, whether game related or not. Guys suddenly hung out outside the front door and would pass joints around smoking their skunkweed.
The moms playing pool with their 16 year old son or the dads shooting 8 ball with their young daughter, just didn't come back.
Money wasn't there to maintain the equipment because they allowed thugs to drive their customers away. The tables became junk and now even beginners would come back to the counter and ask "Do you have any tables that are level?"
People that lost money in running a pool room, did so through their own negligence.
 
You seem to be oblivious to snooker's long history and your exalting of it over pool/other billiards games speaks to your bias of all things English being inherently better than anything else.

Snooker was completely irrelevant for three quarters of the 20th century until Higgins saved it. The great Joe Davis was winning a whopping 6 pounds for winning the snooker world championship, while Ralph Greenleaf was rivaling Babe Ruth for sporting fame in the US and Willie Hoppe was the biggest cue sport star in the world. There's nothing dramatically different about snooker's game design than any other pocket billiard game. Shoot ball into the pocket, score points. If anything, snooker is much less television friendly than other games, you think otherwise because you've grown up with it, but it would die a faster death here than 14.1.

I spoke about this earlier in the thread, and snooker and cue sports are popular in the UK because of your "pub culture" and weather that has translated into indoor games being more popular than here in the States. It's why Phil Taylor is respected as a sporting legend over there, while the average American would laugh at the notion of darts being televised and taken seriously as a professional "sport."

Even the stalwart bowling, which is pretty tv friendly, has fallen out of favor here.

Nothing to do with which game is better or pool's tarnished "image." Cue sports/pub games aren't culturally relevant enough here anymore to build a professional televised tour around.

TL;DR, obviously, but you seem to be oblivious to sticking to the point: snooker is NOT popular because of gambling.

Deal with it.
 
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I grew up in a pool room. Smoke. Booze. Even the occasional whore hung out there from time to time. Now the funny thing is I don't smoke, only drink if I'm at home and have never used the services of any whores. But god forbid I take my own 10 year old to a pool room so he can beat the shit out of grown men playing nine ball. No no no! We can't have our yutes breathing in smoke, seeing men drink or let their pure eyes see a loose woman who makes her living getting nekked!!

As for the gambling, if you don't like it don't do it. But I'll tell you this, the most money I've seen a pool room make is when big action is taking place. More beer sold. More folks playing. More food.

Pool's so called bad image is not the problem. American bullshit laws, do-gooders trying to tell everybody how to live, and video games are the issues IMO. Colonel is right on. The irony is that many kids when I was young, myself included, got into pool because the room owners put a couple arcade games in. No Nintendo or Xbox or such thing back then. So the video games got us in. The beauty of the greatest game on earth kept us in along with the gambling that eventually followed.

The world you and the colon grew up in no longer exists.

Deal with it.
 
Snooker has a well heeled tour because people can bet on it, as a game it's as boring as watching paint dry. As you live in a country where it is the game perhaps it's a stretch to think you have a clue regarding anything about pool in America as you don't live or play it here. Oh and as far as self aggrandizement is concerned if you're attempting to gain it through the use of an extended vocabulary you may want to learn to spell the words you try to impress others with.

Shouldn't 'others' have an apostrophe? Anyway, you know i speak proper English, don'tcha? You know that's different from the Amercanised bastardisation you use, right? You realise WE use the correct english spelling and you don't, yeah? Once you've analysed it you may want to apologise. Your colonisation of our language ends here, so analyse this with care, and italicise the differences. Have i emphasised this enough now, or should i generalise a bit more until we harmonise?

As for snooker, could you tell me why 18.5m people - or one third of the entire country - stayed up until past midnight, on a sunday, to watch the conclusion of the 1985 world championships? Were they all at the bookmakers? Perhaps they all had a sudden urge to smoke some embassy fags?


The enlightened nations watch snooker because it's an interesting game. Deal with it.
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As long as pool players avoid lessons and rely on occasional books or videos to adjust their personal stance, aim and stroke needs, pool will be dying as a sport.

Dying for who, people who give lessons?

Young people have a lot more entertainment options these days. That's why pool declined. Compared to playstation, xbox, apps on the cell phone and computers kids have more options and a lot of Moms would rather have their kid playing Madden on his playstation with his buddies than have the kid down at the pool hall.

Pool won't return to the days of pool halls with 50 tables in every city but it won't die, it will continue more or less at the current level.

And, not to pour cold water on lessons but if you polled the top ten players in the world on how they learned the game I'd bet none of them would say lessons.
 

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
very true but recruitment is good

Dying for who, people who give lessons?

Young people have a lot more entertainment options these days. That's why pool declined. Compared to playstation, xbox, apps on the cell phone and computers kids have more options and a lot of Moms would rather have their kid playing Madden on his playstation with his buddies than have the kid down at the pool hall.

Pool won't return to the days of pool halls with 50 tables in every city but it won't die, it will continue more or less at the current level.

And, not to pour cold water on lessons but if you polled the top ten players in the world on how they learned the game I'd bet none of them would say lessons.

All very true but I do like the idea of effective marketing to a crowd of people that will pay dividends for years to come. That seems to escape a lot of room owners and to me it makes not a lot of sense. If it were my money I would definitely do things much different but at this point I do not want to be confined to a room.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
I feel billiards should be a high school sport with good instructors at the high school level.

Yes and no. It should be a high school sport but save the few, if any people, who wish to excel, obtaining instruction is not the key here. In high school, I played, but received no instruction in, any of these: a) baseball and softball, b) volleyball, c) football, d) handball, e) paddleball/racquetball and f) tennis. I have enjoyed each of these sports as an adult, though I am not very skilled at any of them. Enjoyment, not excellence, is the key, meaning exposure to pool is far more important than excellence. People, especially, young people, play games they enjoy.

I feel that there should be a reality show in which 8 instructors are given 4 low level players of equal ability, 2 men and 2 women. They have one week to train their team. You play a match. The winning teams and instructors move on. Each week a team and their instructor are eliminated. Players nationwide will see the players progressing each week. This will encourage players to seek instruction on their own.


I can’t imagine that the exploits of low level players trying to improve would make for good TV, but the problems of alcohol, loud noise and don’t forget profanity and poor sportsmanship in the poolrooms is a legitimate issue, because they cause parents to steer their kids away from poolrooms. It is here were I think Henson hit the nail on the head. Today’s poolrooms are not ideal for aspiring young players, and we need to do something about it.

Henson's original point, of course, is that players need to develop via lessons. Every golf club, public and private in the United States, has at least one golf pro and likely several assistant pros ready to step up and give lessons. Everyone who has played golf a year or longer has likely taken more than one lesson or a series of beginner lessons.

I couldn’t agree less. As most of us here on the forum know from experience, you can develop a love of pool without lessons. Few players take pool lessons and even fewer trace their love of the game to having taking them. Participation alone is enough to develop a love for the game. Awfully few golfers aspire to be top players, but they love the game anyway, and so it is with pool. Most golfers, tennis players and pool players are self-taught, and few of those play at a high level.

In conclusion, I strongly disagree with Henson's premises. Pool's future hangs on participation, not on its players' competence at the table. Henson skillfully observes, however, that the poolrooms are not youth-friendly, and that this can sometimes stand in the way of introducing young players to the game.
 

lost

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
News flash. That's not pool you're playing. Those are little toy bar tables for people who need something to do while they drink. Pool rooms with real pool tables are fading away.

Thanks for caring but I grew up on 9' Gold Crowns in a Brunswick bowling alley. Pool hall absolutely can't pay the bills just charging table time....unless they are really on the wrong side of town. The world has changed...the so called dedicated pool rooms in my home town closed 35 years ago....and that town has GROWN in population 3 or 4 times since I moved away.
BTW...12 kids playing on 6 pool tables at school...vs 12 kids playing chess or a "lit" club as you mentioned. Which do you think your school board will encourage? You couldn't buy a set of pool balls let alone the table for the price of 6 chess sets...just pointing out the obvious.
What does "saving" pool have to do with our schools anyway? For some reason pool in school is a constant drumbeat here
 

skip100

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Like most debates in this country, boomers love blaming millennials, video games, and the internet for any perceived cultural ills while ignoring their own impact. Pool halls are filled with drinking and gambling and aren't good places for kids - this is news to anyone? At least there is no more smoking.

Since professional pool is on life support due to problems (again) of its own making, for the foreseeable future, interest in the game will start due to exposure at home and on the internet rather than broadcast television. That means boomers and gen X'ers need to buy pool tables and introduce the game to the next generation in a fun, safe setting.

36 million Americans played pool last year. It's not dead.
 

ExilePreacher

Equal Opportunity Gadfly
Silver Member
The world you and the colon grew up in no longer exists.

Deal with it.

I can't argue with that tidbit Swanson, it's true. It's a fact. That world doesn't exist. True true. But that's really my point. In that world every city had multiple pool rooms. Hell, the county seat of the county I grew up in had only 15 thousand or so people yet it supported 3 pool rooms. Now it has none. In a ten mile stretch there were 3 small towns, less that 1000 in population, and all three had a "game room" with 8 ft bar boxes and a 10 ft snooker table. All gone now. Back then a solid B player could actually make a living at pool and usually made even more backing better guys on the side. Those days equalled pool thriving. It's the changes made to our culture by do-gooders and know it alls that have ruined it.

So dealing with it is a must I suppose but that doesn't entail I just roll over and say oh well all is well. I'm still going to complain about it. I'm still gonna piss and moan and say it's nobody's gawddamned business if I take my son to a bar. I'm still gonna say do-gooders and lawmakers should mind their own fu(k!ng business and stop trying to rule how I live. And I'm still gonna say that these retards and their arbitrary bullshit laws and rules are what has killed pool in my country. Times have changed, I haven't and I'm not going to. The good ol' days are gone but I'm not. So YOU, Limey Troll DEAL WITH THAT!
 

GoldenFlash

Banned
Doing it without alcohol is a real challenge. I do know of a small pool hall that was successful back in the '80s that was alcohol and smoke-free. I believe it closed only when the owner passed away.
The problem is not "music", it's excessively loud music. If you have to shout to make people standing next to you hear, it's too loud.
There are quite successful establishments that are smoke-free. I've played in a few of them.
I've often wondered why it is necessary to have ANY music at all?
Alcoholic beverages were the usual here in Atlanta, years and years ago. You didn't get to buy any though unless you could prove you were of legal age (21). I Never saw any kids drinking.......except outside in the alleys.
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks for caring but I grew up on 9' Gold Crowns in a Brunswick bowling alley. Pool hall absolutely can't pay the bills just charging table time....unless they are really on the wrong side of town. The world has changed...the so called dedicated pool rooms in my home town closed 35 years ago....and that town has GROWN in population 3 or 4 times since I moved away.
BTW...12 kids playing on 6 pool tables at school...vs 12 kids playing chess or a "lit" club as you mentioned. Which do you think your school board will encourage? You couldn't buy a set of pool balls let alone the table for the price of 6 chess sets...just pointing out the obvious.
What does "saving" pool have to do with our schools anyway? For some reason pool in school is a constant drumbeat here

Get on line, look up Billiard Education Foundation, study it carefully, then come back and tell us its not a good idea. Billiards is played at a college level, why not high school?It can be taught to the kids while removing the bad elements.

On second thought, you are right, it is a bad idea. Joking aside, I see it as an excellent opportunity to give the kids an option to cell phones and computers. Several of the students at my daughter's high school said they would be very interested if the school offered billiards as an after school activity. Would they stick with it, or lose interest? That's the question. Unlike other "sports", it is an activity they can do for a lifetime.
 
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DaveM

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Shouldn't 'others' have an apostrophe? Anyway, you know i speak proper English, don'tcha? You know that's different from the Amercanised bastardisation you use, right? You realise WE use the correct english spelling and you don't, yeah? Once you've analysed it you may want to apologise. Your colonisation of our language ends here, so analyse this with care, and italicise the differences. Have i emphasised this enough now, or should i generalise a bit more until we harmonise?

As for snooker, could you tell me why 18.5m people - or one third of the entire country - stayed up until past midnight, on a sunday, to watch the conclusion of the 1985 world championships? Were they all at the bookmakers? Perhaps they all had a sudden urge to smoke some embassy fags?


The enlightened nations watch snooker because it's an interesting game. Deal with it.

Others is properly spelled. Why are we talking about something that happened in 1985? I find snooker interesting and watch when I catch it on tv. Is it a superior game? I don't think so. Some people prefer it, some don't. I don't care much for soccer. It bores me. Billions are passionate about it. Good for them. Neither snooker or soccer are superior in any way to most other sports. They're often just culturally relevant to the fan base. Simply put, it's what one grew up with.
 
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