Free Bonus Ball about to start!

iusedtoberich said:
There are some ass backwards ways to access flash on iOS devices, but nothing supported by Apple.

Anyway, even on a Mac (not iOS), with flash installed, the stream did not work on Safari, but it did work on FIrefox. Something is definitely wrong on their end, as this affected half the people that posted in this thread.
Click to expand...

Apple does not support flash. Apple does like to play with HTML5 instead. Apple is not the only company that does not support Flash. Flash can be problematic at times but it is still widely in use. If you are going to view streams supported by Flash on a Mac you certainly can use FF or Chrome etc. that are more Flash friendly. On any platform, iOS, Windows, Linux etc. you need to have more than one browser installed IMHO. Certainly you can have your fav browser to use day to day but when a certain site has issues with a browser like is apparently the case with Safari on iOS viewing the bonus ball stream, simply open up your alternate flash friendly browser and enjoy the show. I just don't get the OMG it won't play on Safari rant! I can't believe it! Apple does not want you to view Flash content on your Mac while using Safari because they don't support Flash! They want you to get all your content from iTunes. They never formally supported Blu-ray Discs either. Because they want you to get your movies from iTunes. Can't blame them either as that's how they distribute (sell) their content.
 
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To be fair, I doubt the problem comes from Apple. Safari and iTunes have virtually nothing to do with one another - people dont play iTunes video with Safari, they play iTunes video with iTunes. More likely is that, because (desktop) Safari isn't as popular as the other browser biggies, people ensure their services work with the others before testing with Safari.
 
upindaklub said:
Apple does not support flash. Apple does like to play with HTML5 instead. Apple is not the only company that does not support Flash. Flash can be problematic at times but it is still widely in use. If you are going to view streams supported by Flash on a Mac you certainly can use FF or Chrome etc. that are more Flash friendly. On any platform, iOS, Windows, Linux etc. you need to have more than one browser installed IMHO. Certainly you can have your fav browser to use day to day but when a certain site has issues with a browser like is apparently the case with Safari on iOS viewing the bonus ball stream, simply open up your alternate flash friendly browser and enjoy the show. I just don't get the OMG it won't play on Safari rant! I can't believe it! Apple does not want you to view Flash content on your Mac while using Safari because they don't support Flash! They want you to get all your content from iTunes. They never formally supported Blu-ray Discs either. Because they want you to get your movies from iTunes. Can't blame them either as that's how they distribute (sell) their content.
Click to expand...

Relax man. We were trying to help each other out with the stream, and also provide feedback to the BB technical crew.

Of course most people have multiple browsers for situations like this.

Apple does now and always has supported flash "on the Mac platform". iOS is a different story.

I don't know what's going on, but I'd bet a dozen donuts that the BB crew can fix it, and its something on their end, not Apple's.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Relax man. We were trying to help each other out with the stream, and also provide feedback to the BB technical crew.

Of course most people have multiple browsers for situations like this.

Apple does now and always has supported flash "on the Mac platform". iOS is a different story.

I don't know what's going on, but I'd bet a dozen donuts that the BB crew can fix it, and its something on their end, not Apple's.
Click to expand...

Flash works on the Mac platform sure but $afari is a very poor choice if you are looking to view a "stream" like Bonus Ball. As far as mobile devices go the Messiah, RIP, shared his "Thoughts on Flash"

"I wanted to jot down some of our thoughts on Adobe’s Flash products so that customers and critics may better understand why we do not allow Flash on iPhones, iPods and iPads."

Steve Jobs
April, 2010

http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/
 
upindaklub said:
Flash works on the Mac platform sure but $afari is a very poor choice if you are looking to view a "stream" like Bonus Ball. As far as mobile devices go the Messiah, RIP, shared his "Thoughts on Flash"

"I wanted to jot down some of our thoughts on Adobe’s Flash products so that customers and critics may better understand why we do not allow Flash on iPhones, iPods and iPads."

Steve Jobs
April, 2010

http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/
Click to expand...

Believe me, I know all about this. I've been a "fanboy" since 1996, owned AAPL stock since 2002 or so, cried when Jobs died, I'm on my 7th or 8th Mac, and read/watch everything I can about Apple...

The point is, something is wrong on the BB end. Even some of the Windows users earlier in the thread reported they got the Corey show on Firefox, but then when they switched to Chrome it worked fine.
 
BRussell said:
To be fair, I doubt the problem comes from Apple. Safari and iTunes have virtually nothing to do with one another - people dont play iTunes video with Safari, they play iTunes video with iTunes. More likely is that, because (desktop) Safari isn't as popular as the other browser biggies, people ensure their services work with the others before testing with Safari.
Click to expand...

As far as Apple is concerned its all one big happy family. The video via iTunes is really played back via Quick Time. Everything is designed so that all your needs are provided for by Apple.Safari, iTunes, Quick Time, Bonjour, iCloud etc. they are all designed to integrate together. This is wonderful of course. Until you try to use Safari to view flash, it just does not work as well as other browsers. Apple believes flash is wrong and does not actively work to see that it does work well via Safari. Save yourself some agony and just use a different browser when needed and enjoy the stream.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Believe me, I know all about this. I've been a "fanboy" since 1996, owned AAPL stock since 2002 or so, cried when Jobs died, I'm on my 7th or 8th Mac, and read/watch everything I can about Apple...

The point is, something is wrong on the BB end. Even some of the Windows users earlier in the thread reported they got the Corey show on Firefox, but then when they switched to Chrome it worked fine.
Click to expand...

Why did Chrome work correctly and Firefox didn't you ask? Good question. Flash is integrated into Chrome and it provides the latest version of Flash, built in and it updates itself, provided you restart on occasion. On Firefox and most other browsers you need to manually update Flash and lots of people don't. Once you update flash on FF its amazing how wonderful it works.

http://helpx.adobe.com/flash-player/kb/flash-player-google-chrome.html
 
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upindaklub said:
As far as Apple is concerned its all one big happy family. The video via iTunes is really played back via Quick Time. Everything is designed so that all your needs are provided for by Apple.Safari, iTunes, Quick Time, Bonjour, iCloud etc. they are all designed to integrate together. This is wonderful of course. Until you try to use Safari to view flash, it just does not work as well as other browsers. Apple believes flash is wrong and does not actively work to see that it does work well via Safari. Save yourself some agony and just use a different browser when needed and enjoy the stream.
Click to expand...

I don't know if it's Apple's or Adobe's fault that Flash doesn't seem to play well with Apple's stuff. I do know that Adobe is heading in the HTML5 direction and 2 years ago stopped updating Flash for mobile. It wasn't just a political fight between apple and adobe, it was a technical one, and I think it's fair to say adobe has essentially acknowledged that "the Messiah" was right. Flash is shitty tech, and HTML 5 is better.

In any case, i was responding to this quote of yours:
The good folks at Apple design Safari to expertly play content distributed via iTunes but not so much if you choose another content provider.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, but that doesn't make any sense. People don't play their iTunes-distributed video with Safari. You also said Apple doesn't support Flash so people will get all their video from iTunes. That also doesn't make any sense, and is irrational anti-Apple nonsense.
 
BRussell said:
I don't know if it's Apple's or Adobe's fault that Flash doesn't seem to play well with Apple's stuff. I do know that Adobe is heading in the HTML5 direction and 2 years ago stopped updating Flash for mobile. It wasn't just a political fight between apple and adobe, it was a technical one, and I think it's fair to say adobe has essentially acknowledged that "the Messiah" was right. Flash is shitty tech, and HTML 5 is better.

In any case, i was responding to this quote of yours: I'm sorry, but that doesn't make any sense. People don't play their iTunes-distributed video with Safari. You also said Apple doesn't support Flash so people will get all their video from iTunes. That also doesn't make any sense, and is irrational anti-Apple nonsense.
Click to expand...

All the Apple products I mentioned, iTunes, Safari, Quick Time, iCloud comprise their own ecosystem. It is akin to a walled garden. Everything you need is provided for. If "we" don't have it you don't need it. None of Apple products are in any way optimized for flash. I understand flash works on a Mac but it does not work well. I understand flash is going away etc. but it is still widely used by many developers.

I find it humorous you mention "anti-Apple nonsense." Isn't Apple the company who ran a whole ad campaign belittling Microsoft? Of course that was OK. Apple was the cool kids bashing Big Brother Microsoft. Nothing to see hear folks move along. When Microsoft hit back with their own ads Apple cried foul! Its not fair!

http://adage.com/article/news/microsoft-laptop-hunters-ad-apple-complains/138117/

Samsung and Microsoft ads about Apple that turn the table I find quite funny. And for the record my shop has been an authorized commercial Apple re-seller for almost 20 years. We also work with commercial customers on the Windows and Linux platforms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJafiCKliA8

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2039...inst-apple-in-hilarious-new-windows-8-ad.html
 
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Putting aside apple vs Microsoft vs the world, etc.

What do you think is more likely for our issues watching "the bonus ball stream" last night?

1. There is something wrong/not finished/overlooked on the BB side?

2. There is something wrong on the flash or Apple or Windows side (since we've had multiple setups with issues on this thread)

Before you answer, don't forget that BB is brand new and they have had MANY difficulties thus far, from technical to management to buildings.

And

The exact same browser and os setups that have had issues with the BB stream have no problems viewing flash content on YouTube, ustream, etc. (I'm talking computers, not phones)

And

These browsers were showing some video, just not the right one (Corey practicing)
 
upindaklub said:
All the Apple products I mentioned, iTunes, Safari, Quick Time, iCloud comprise their own ecosystem. It is akin to a walled garden. Everything you need is provided for. If "we" don't have it you don't need it.
Click to expand...
Nonsense. The only issue here is that HTML5 is better tech than Flash, and the makers of Flash themselves acknowledge this now. Furthermore, it is Flash that was the propietary tech and HTML5 the open standard. But somehow the open standard is part of a walled garden? Again, irrational anti-Apple nonsense.

None of Apple products are in any way optimized for flash. I understand flash works on a Mac but it does not work well. I understand flash is going away etc. but it is still widely used by many developers.
Click to expand...
Flash's poor performance on Macs was due to Adobe not being as interested in optimizing for Macs vs. Windows, which is understandable given the respective market shares. It wasn't an Apple conspiracy to get people to buy iTunes video - that is just nonsensical. We're talking about things like Bonus Ball streams. iTunes sells Hollywood movies and TV shows. Apple is putting little bugs in Adobe's software so you can't watch Bonus Ball and instead will buy iTunes movies and TV shows? Pffffft.

I find it humorous you mention "anti-Apple nonsense." Isn't Apple the company who ran a whole ad campaign belittling Microsoft? Of course that was OK. Apple was the cool kids bashing Big Brother Microsoft. Nothing to see hear folks move along. When Microsoft hit back with their own ads Apple cried foul! Its not fair!

http://adage.com/article/news/microsoft-laptop-hunters-ad-apple-complains/138117/

Samsung and Microsoft ads about Apple that turn the table I find quite funny. And for the record my shop has been an authorized commercial Apple re-seller for almost 20 years. We also work with commercial customers on the Windows and Linux platforms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJafiCKliA8

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2039...inst-apple-in-hilarious-new-windows-8-ad.html
Click to expand...
This has nothing to do with streaming video or HTML5 vs. Flash, except that it reveals the truth of my claim that the basis for your statements is irrational anti-Apple nonsense rather than facts.

Anyway, I'll let you have the lat word on this if you wish - I feel that we've hijacked the Bobus Ball thread enough. :sorry:
 
I will start by saying this. I have watched a lot of streams Lenny has collaborated on thru ontherailtv.com/‎. I wish Lenny was in charge of the Bonus Ball stream.
I feel he knows how to stream with little resources. So he should be able to do a tremendous job with this mega set-up. As with most streamers, I have seen nothing publicized here or on the www.wpbltv.com/‎ site that states what is required to view the stream. I may have missed it but this stuff is important.

1. What operating systems are supported? Can I use Windows 98 SE or OS 9?
2. Please make sure you are running the latest version of flash
3. What is the minimum hardware required, cpu, graphics, memory etc.
4. Can I view tapping into my neighbors wireless DSL that everyone in the neighborhood is also tapping into? Can I watch on "high speed" dial-up?
5. Is their a mobile App required to view on iOS, Android, Blackberry?
6. If no mobile App is required which mobile browser should I use on my platform that supports flash?
7. Do you have a FAQ for troubleshooting if I am having issues?
8. Are your video card drivers up to date?

This is just scratching the surface of course and it should be something all streamers address. I do know from years of dealing with customers on various platforms that many people having issues sometimes bring their hardware & software problems with them when trying to watch any type of stream. The Bonus Ball stream has had issues and I can't diagnose them long distance. Nathan addressed a few issues with their servers etc and he and "whoever" is responsible for the streams are the only people who can answer this accurately. I will say this, I doubt your going to be able to see these streams on your ipad or iPhone until a proper App is available. I wasn't able to watch on my rooted Android tablet running Jellybean on Firefox. I was able to watch on Windows 7 using Chrome and on openSUSE 12.3 using Firefox. If I was planning on watching this on a Mac I would make sure I had flash installed and be using FF or Chrome. I would not use Safari on a Mac or PC. I would not use IE.

I apologize if I came across a bit rough around the edges addressing the whole Mac/iOS issue. Many Windows users also insist on using IE to view streams and often say "whats flash?" People need to be able to find out ahead of time what is required to view a stream like this & if your gear or software is not up to the task don't blame the streamer. The streamer can't control the internet either. If your in a public hot spot you may not have access either.
 
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BRussell said:
Nonsense. The only issue here is that HTML5 is better tech than Flash, and the makers of Flash themselves acknowledge this now. Furthermore, it is Flash that was the propietary tech and HTML5 the open standard. But somehow the open standard is part of a walled garden? Again, irrational anti-Apple nonsense.

Flash's poor performance on Macs was due to Adobe not being as interested in optimizing for Macs vs. Windows, which is understandable given the respective market shares. It wasn't an Apple conspiracy to get people to buy iTunes video - that is just nonsensical. We're talking about things like Bonus Ball streams. iTunes sells Hollywood movies and TV shows. Apple is putting little bugs in Adobe's software so you can't watch Bonus Ball and instead will buy iTunes movies and TV shows? Pffffft.


This has nothing to do with streaming video or HTML5 vs. Flash, except that it reveals the truth of my claim that the basis for your statements is irrational anti-Apple nonsense rather than facts.

Anyway, I'll let you have the lat word on this if you wish - I feel that we've hijacked the Bobus Ball thread enough. :sorry:
Click to expand...

I would disagree w/ your comments that HTML5 "is better" than Flash. The main reason why HTML5 could be construed as "better" is the open-source factor.

HTML5 is nowhere near as capable as Flash. In many aspects, HTML5 isn't even in the same solar system in regards to capability.

The HTML5 vs FLASH thing was purely a political play - tech/performance had nothing to do with it. Of course Flash is a CPU/RESOURCE hog --- it has to be since it has a handful of built-in video codecs such as H264 and VOIP codecs such as MPEG4/3. Since Flash 10.3, Adobe integrated an acoustic echo-cancellation (AEC) module within the plugin so you don't need a headset/ear-buds for real-time communication. That AEC module intensely sucks up CPU resources -- especially if it has multiple streams to cancel.

Here's a list:
http://helpx.adobe.com/flash/kb/supported-codecs-flash-player.html

Here's the bottom-line: Everyone is cooking with water and everyone has the same ingredients.

Once HTML5 catches up to Flash in regards to capability, it too will also be a massive CPU/RESOURCE hog.

HTML5 is years away from catching up to Flash. It too will also have its trials and tribulations in regards to stability and performance.

HTML5, at this point of time, still has no real viable API for multi-directional voip/video communication. WebRTC is currently limited to 1:1, whereas Flash is basically unlimited. WebRTC also has no mechanism for AEC. It's very, very limited.

In 2000, I founded one of the nation's first real-time online college services geared for gifted/advanced students that later evolved into a web conferencing company. Our intellectual property is based entirely off of Flash. We use Adobe Air to push our mobile apps to iOS/Android.

I'm very educated on what HTML5 is and what it can do - and more importantly -- what it can't. I'm not saying any of this as a "Flash fan" -- in fact, I'm quite the opposite. For every enterprise server I put out into the field, I have to pay Adobe $4500 per AMS license. As our cloud service grows, I have to pay the same to build-out our origin/edge RTMP clusters. On top of that out-of-line pricing, Adobe seems to put out buggy Flash player versions just to have the world act as their beta testers. I've been the recipient of a lot of client angst due to them putting out shit-versions. (this is the root-cause of Job's play)

In short, if someone handed me a box with a million dollars in it, there's no way to replicate the intellectual property we have now within HTML5 today. When HTML5 is at least half-way there, we're going to begin the grind on an HTML5 prototype. By the time we're on version 3 or 4 of our HTML5 service...guess what.... HTML5 will be a resource/CPU hog as well.

Also, Flash works perfectly on Macs. There are no performance issues with Flash and Macs (hardware-wise). In fact, Macs run Flash far better than most Windows systems. Any performance issue on a Mac is likely caused by having "Hardware acceleration" set to "ON" within the plugin settings. For most Macs that needs to be set to OFF since they don't need it and it causes "jitter" when enabled. Chrome is the worst browser to use - Firefox (imo) is the best. Safari - nobody really uses that, so who knows.

Dave
 
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SpiderWebComm said:
I would disagree w/ your comments that HTML5 "is better" than Flash. The main reason why HTML5 could be construed as "better" is the open-source factor.

HTML5 is nowhere near as capable as Flash. In many aspects, HTML5 isn't even in the same solar system in regards to capability.

The HTML5 vs FLASH thing was purely a political play - tech/performance had nothing to do with it. Of course Flash is a CPU/RESOURCE hog --- it has to be since it has a handful of built-in video codecs such as H264 and VOIP codecs such as MPEG4/3. Since Flash 10.3, Adobe integrated an acoustic echo-cancellation (AEC) module within the plugin so you don't need a headset/ear-buds for real-time communication. That AEC module intensely sucks up CPU resources -- especially if it has multiple streams to cancel.

Here's a list:
http://helpx.adobe.com/flash/kb/supported-codecs-flash-player.html

Here's the bottom-line: Everyone is cooking with water and everyone has the same ingredients.

Once HTML5 catches up to Flash in regards to capability, it too will also be a massive CPU/RESOURCE hog.

HTML5 is years away from catching up to Flash. It too will also have its trials and tribulations in regards to stability and performance.

HTML5, at this point of time, still has no real viable API for multi-directional voip/video communication. WebRTC is currently limited to 1:1, whereas Flash is basically unlimited. WebRTC also has no mechanism for AEC. It's very, very limited.

In 2000, I founded one of the nation's first real-time online college services geared for gifted/advanced students that later evolved into a web conferencing company. Our intellectual property is based entirely off of Flash. We use Adobe Air to push our mobile apps to iOS/Android.

I'm very educated on what HTML5 is and what it can do - and more importantly -- what it can't. I'm not saying any of this as a "Flash fan" -- in fact, I'm quite the opposite. For every enterprise server I put out into the field, I have to pay Adobe $4500 per AMS license. As our cloud service grows, I have to pay the same to build-out our origin/edge RTMP clusters. On top of that out-of-line pricing, Adobe seems to put out buggy Flash player versions just to have the world act as their beta testers. I've been the recipient of a lot of client angst due to them putting out shit-versions.

In short, if someone handed me a box with a million dollars in it, there's no way to replicate the intellectual property we have now within HTML5 today. When HTML5 is at least half-way there, we're going to begin the grind on an HTML5 prototype. By the time we're on version 3 or 4 of our HTML5 service...guess what.... HTML5 will be a resource/CPU hog as well.

Also, Flash works perfectly on Macs. There are no performance issues with Flash and Macs (hardware-wise). In fact, Macs run Flash far better than most Windows systems. Any performance issue on a Mac is likely caused by having "Hardware acceleration" set to "ON" within the plugin settings. For most Macs that needs to be set to OFF since they don't need it and it causes "jitter" when enabled. Chrome is the worst browser to use - Firefox (imo) is the best. Safari - nobody really uses that, so who knows.

Dave
Click to expand...

I absorbed @ 20% of that alphabet soup.

I love lamp.

Dave, are you providing some tech assistance to BB? They seem to need help... And I assume they know that. It'd be reassuring to know they are reaching out (not that reassuring us is important, getting it right is).
 
BB had bad vendor luck, that's all. Everything they could control directly was fine. Their construction contractor and stream provider were probably married.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
 
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