Frozen ball question, actually 2

tfw314

tfw314

Tommy
Silver Member
Hello everyone

OB is frozen to the rail, does the CB after contact with that frozen ball allowed to touch that same rail as a legal shot, 2nd question is the long rail considered 1 rail above and below the side pocket

Thanks in Advance
 
tfw314 said:
Hello everyone

OB is frozen to the rail, does the CB after contact with that frozen ball allowed to touch that same rail as a legal shot, 2nd question is the long rail considered 1 rail above and below the side pocket

Thanks in Advance
Click to expand...

Yes and yes.
 
tfw314 said:
Hello everyone

OB is frozen to the rail, does the CB after contact with that frozen ball allowed to touch that same rail as a legal shot
Click to expand...

This is required as a legal shot in most rule sets.


2nd question is the long rail considered 1 rail above and below the side pocket
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If I understand your question, yes.
 
I was always under the assumption that if the OB is frozen to a rail that rail is considered dead and either OB or CB must touch another rail not that same rail

Thanks
 
tfw314 said:
I was always under the assumption that if the OB is frozen to a rail that rail is considered dead and either OB or CB must touch another rail not that same rail

Thanks
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I think in some rules for some games that was true, but everywhere I have seen, the frozen object ball needs to be driven to another rail or the cueball needs to be driven to a rail after contact, the same rail as the object ball is OK.
 
tfw314 said:
2nd question is the long rail considered 1 rail above and below the side pocket

Thanks in Advance
Click to expand...

There are SIX rails on a pool table.....not four.
If whitey hits a rail the other side of a side pocket, it's a legal hit.
 
tfw314 said:
I was always under the assumption that if the OB is frozen to a rail that rail is considered dead and either OB or CB must touch another rail not that same rail

Thanks
Click to expand...

"Legal" contact and then something must hit a rail, ANY rail, and it's not a foul.

No rail is off limits, unless you're playing a monkey rule game.
 
tfw314 said:
Hello everyone

OB is frozen to the rail, does the CB after contact with that frozen ball allowed to touch that same rail as a legal shot, 2nd question is the long rail considered 1 rail above and below the side pocket

Thanks in Advance
Click to expand...

1) After contacting the OB, if the cue ball touches the same rail it is a legal shot.
2) I can't think of a scenario where a ball is frozen on the long rail. If it passes the side pocket and touches the rail on the other side, either the cue ball or something had to hit a rail someplace? IMO I would consider the long rail as 2 rails. So a pool table has 6 rails.
 
tucson9ball said:
1) After contacting the OB, if the cue ball touches the same rail it is a legal shot.
2) I can't think of a scenario where a ball is frozen on the long rail. If it passes the side pocket and touches the rail on the other side, either the cue ball or something had to hit a rail someplace? IMO I would consider the long rail as 2 rails. So a pool table has 6 rails.
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It could happen that the object ball that is frozen to the long rail goes pass the side pocket and then hits another object ball causing it to then hit the rail pass the side pocket.. No other ball hits a rail except the original frozen object ball. That's one scenario
 
Thanks for tha replies the whole scenario was this 8ball frozen to long rail 2 inches from the side pocket the 9ball was close to the 8 ball but not touching, player had BIH CB hit the 8 ball, went just past side pocket and hit the same long rail, huge argument over if it was a foul, nevertheless I shot the combination cross corner for the win so it really didnt matter, but there was concern for the other rail scenario, is the long rail considered 1 rail, Thanks Again!! BTW I dont know what a monkey game is there friend!
 
From the BCAPL rule book.

1-19 Legal Shot (AR p. 87)

1. For a shot to be legal, the first ball contacted by the cue ball must be a legal object
ball, or a simultaneous hit with a legal and illegal object ball may occur. After that
contact:

a. any object ball must be pocketed, or;
b. any object ball or the cue ball must contact a cushion.

It is a foul if one of those requirements is not met.

2. If the ball used to meet the cushion contact requirement of Rule 1-19-1-b is declared
frozen to a cushion at the beginning of the shot, then that ball must leave the cushion it is
frozen to and then:

a. contact a cushion other than the one to which it was frozen, or;
b. contact another object ball before it contacts the cushion to which it was
frozen
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http://www.playbca.com/downloads/rulebook/completerulebook.aspx
 
I would guess it's also fair to state that he can double kiss the ball back to the same rail also. He mentioned that the existing rail was off limits when you can actually use the same ball on the same rail
 
7forlife said:
I would guess it's also fair to state that he can double kiss the ball back to the same rail also. He mentioned that the existing rail was off limits when you can actually use the same ball on the same rail
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That is not a good hit, a frozen ball has to be driven to a different rail, or the cueball has to contact that rail to be a legal hit. You can't kiss the object ball to the same rail, nor is the ball rolling out and back to the rail due to table roll or something counts as a contacting a rail. Has to be a different one.
 
hang-the-9 said:
That is not a good hit, a frozen ball has to be driven to a different rail, or the cueball has to contact that rail to be a legal hit. You can't kiss the object ball to the same rail, nor is the ball rolling out and back to the rail due to table roll or something counts as a contacting a rail. Has to be a different one.
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Read post #11 again. It is perfectly legal to have a ball frozen to the rail, hit it off the rail into another ball and have it carom back to the same rail for a good hit.

edit: http://billiards.colostate.edu/normal_videos/new/NVB-62.htm part 1 video, shot #6.
 
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Neil said:
Read post #11 again. It is perfectly legal to have a ball frozen to the rail, hit it off the rail into another ball and have it carom back to the same rail for a good hit.
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Into another ball, but not a double kiss into it or just having it roll back to the same rail.
 
Thx Doctor Dave. I learned something today. I could have sworn that at a very short distance I could get multiple kisses that sounded like a machine gun. I wonder what I was hearing or was I hallucinating. Don't answer that question.

Al
 
ssbn610g said:
dr_dave said:
This is not as easy as it sounds. See:

HSV B.39 - Kiss-back shot with difficult secondary cushion contact

Enjoy,
Dave
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Thx Doctor Dave. I learned something today. I could have sworn that at a very short distance I could get multiple kisses that sounded like a machine gun. I wonder what I was hearing or was I hallucinating. Don't answer that question.

Al
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Actually, with a kiss-back shot, there ARE multiple (two) kisses, one where the CB first hits the OB, and a second when the OB hits the CB after compressing the cushion and rebounding, so you are not hallucinating. However, the OB still does not return to the cushion.

Catch you later,
Dave
 
dabarbr said:
It could happen that the object ball that is frozen to the long rail goes pass the side pocket and then hits another object ball causing it to then hit the rail pass the side pocket.. No other ball hits a rail except the original frozen object ball. That's one scenario
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Sure it could, but that is a legal shot, not a foul, regardless of where it comes back to the rail.

Dale(4 rails, 6 cushions)
 
dr_dave said:
Actually, with a kiss-back shot, there ARE multiple (two) kisses, one where the CB first hits the OB, and a second when the OB hits the CB after compressing the cushion and rebounding, so you are not hallucinating. However, the OB still does not return to the cushion.

Catch you later,
Dave
Click to expand...

Ah, Malcolm McDowell - Blue Thunder
 
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