In this situation the 6 ball is frozen to the cue ball and the cue ball is frozen to the rail. Is it legal to shoot the cue ball straight between the 6 ball and the cushion?
Frozen Ball Rule
- Thread starter Tennesseejoe
- Start date
will be interesting to see what the rules experts think but to my non referee mind I think the shooter would need to cue way high to avoid double hitting if that's even possible (don't think it is) and the 6 would need to make it to the side rail.
Could you compress the cushion - nah that don't look likely either...
Could you compress the cushion - nah that don't look likely either...
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Agree. Going that way it looks like a double-hit is almost a certainty. You MIGHT get away with it in a bar, might get knocked out too.
When the CB is frozen to OB one can stroke directly at the OB thought the CB and there is no double hit (physics)--energy is delivered to both balls and the CB does not (necessarily) come back to the cue (although can make it do so at your peril.)
In the given situation--shooting down the rail, there is a (good) chance that the CB will deliver energy to OB (instantaneously) and simultaneously get driven into the rail (90º rule) where it can come back off and create a double hit on the cue.
In the given situation--shooting down the rail, there is a (good) chance that the CB will deliver energy to OB (instantaneously) and simultaneously get driven into the rail (90º rule) where it can come back off and create a double hit on the cue.
If you can avoid the double hit , it's illegal....that's a big if.... guess it depends on the rules that you're playing.
I'm not sure why you would want to play it that way. I would thin the 6 and go 2 cushions to leave the cue ball at the head rail.
Most of the ones I play in, if the cue ball is frozen to the 6, you can push right through the 6. All that's required is something hit a rail. I know a lot of guys on here don't agree with being able to push through it like that, but I say tough shit. If the rules say you can do it, you can do it.
I'm not sure why you would want to play it that way. I would thin the 6 and go 2 cushions to leave the cue ball at the head rail.
Most of the ones I play in, if the cue ball is frozen to the 6, you can push right through the 6. All that's required is something hit a rail. I know a lot of guys on here don't agree with being able to push through it like that, but I say tough shit. If the rules say you can do it, you can do it.
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True but that's not what the OP is asking about.
The CSI/BCAPL rule on frozen balls:
It's legal to shoot into the OB at any angle, even straight on, but as others have said, I don't think you can stroke parallel with the rail without double hitting the CB as it's blocked/slowed by the rail.
However, there is a legal way to hit the shot so the CB goes along the rail - use Bob Jewett's "Two Times Fuller" method:
1. Aim the CB directly through the OB, then shift the aim halfway toward the line you want your CB to take (measured on a right angle line as shown).
2. Stroke the CB at the halfway target at medium speed with straight follow. It will go straight toward the pocket along the solid white line as shown.
pj
chgo
However, there is a legal way to hit the shot so the CB goes along the rail - use Bob Jewett's "Two Times Fuller" method:
1. Aim the CB directly through the OB, then shift the aim halfway toward the line you want your CB to take (measured on a right angle line as shown).
2. Stroke the CB at the halfway target at medium speed with straight follow. It will go straight toward the pocket along the solid white line as shown.
pj
chgo
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Stroking parallel with the rail, if there's no foul the CB should bank off the rail about parallel with the 6's path.
pj
chgo
I still dont get something.... what is the point of shooting it that way? There is no chance to make the ball, and a safe is unlikely.
Yes
Jmho
Icbw
If the Q ball is frozen to the object ball you can do whatever you want as far as the direction you shoot
That’s how I understand it I could be wrong
Exactly. Jack up on the cue ball and it will hit the short rail and with good speed the object ball will hopefully be close to the side rail. Let the incoming player take that shot.
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Heh heh put the 9 ball in the jaws and you have a good shot.
Through experiments I find no risk of a double hit stroking parallel to the rail. Using a normal stroke the cue ball does end up taking a path parallel to the path of the 6 ball.
Actually Patrick, you bisect the angle between the straight line through the object ball and the path you want the cue ball to take. If you direct your stroke that way, you can now shoot accurately through a frozen ball. Try it, you'll like it.
I would direct you to page 71 of Shots, Moves and Strategies to see how I used that very shot to pull off a stunning upset of Jimmy Fusco in the last Stardust tournament in 1972.
we haven't heard back from the op yet so we don't know why he is asking whether the specific path he laid out could be shot without fouling.
Offering other shot options is good academically but may not be of interest to him.
best,
brian kc