Frustrated with my own slow play in 8 ball

justadub said:
With all due respect (and I mean that as sincerely as possible...I respect everything you post here and look forward to seeing your posts) in a typical APA night, if you are "that guy", you will not be viewed well. And I'll tell you why. We're trying to get 5 matches done in hopefully 4 hours. And the players playing APA aren't nearly as good as you are, it takes quite a while for some matches, especially beginners.

I say all this as one who is probably a bit slower than the average in our room. I totally get where the OP is coming from. AND it's refreshing to see that he is aware of it and is concerned at some level.

The OP is deliberate, and that's how he feels comfortable shooting. I TOTALLY get it. Hopefully he can find a way to still manage his time at the table in a fashion that is comfortable to him, but perhaps a bit quicker than he has been till now. Rushing yourself won't help, you're right. But making 8-12 other people wait on a work night is a whole other type of pressure, too...and he won't be popular if his matches drag on too much. I know, it shouldn't be a popularity contest, and everyone should play in the manner they play best at, but there are some practical factors to account for, as well.

I do wish the OP well, as I have said a few times, I understand the conundrum quite well. I can be "methodical" as well. ;) And it's both interesting and a good thing that he recognized it in an opponent, and contrasted that to his own playing style. So he's well aware of how it impacts others.

Good luck, newcuer! Rooting for ya!
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Thanks justadub.

There are always extreme cases. If one player is slower than everyone else, interfering with league and tournament schedules, and causing tangible negative impacts to groups of people, then yes, this needs to be dealt with.

But OP didn't say any of this. It seems to be you bringing up the extreme case to justify the rule.

What OP said was that there are a number of players he views on the slow side of the spectrum and that he is concerned because he doesn't want to be one of them. This is what I was addressing.

If you look at the amount of hatred towards slow play, the vast, vast majority of it isn't due to scheduling. Most of it is just people impatient in their chair. This is what I was addressing as well.

So I totally concede that tournaments and leagues must run on schedule, and promoters and operators should do whatever is needed to keep things moving. I hope you'd also concede that if someone is playing slow and not hurting anyone else then hostility towards that person shouldn't be permitted.

Thanks!
 
newcuer said:
I know I am slow player and I at times ask teammates if I as slow other players I am playing against who are driving me nuts with their slow play. And unfortunately the answer is yes (sometimes it's hard to objectively tell one's own pace of play).

Ugh. I don't want to be like them. Not sure what to do. If I play faster, I play worse (especially strategy wise and pattern wise).

Any advice?
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Dude, you're a 6. In your head you're trying to be an 8 or 9. You need to hit a bunch more balls b4 you'll be able to apply all the knowledge you've gleaned from the books and vids. Chill on the head stuff. Perfection at the table will drive you nuts and slow everything down to a crawl. Be able to accept your level and play there comfortably. Ignore those people on your ass about dragging your feet. That makes league play no fun at all!! You joined to have fun, not become a world beater. There's better avenues for that, if that's what you want. You'll get better faster by playing at your level and learning more about the game as you go, than trying to analyze every possible outcome out there. That would slow anybody down. You're gonna screw up, but learn from it. Some things just take time dude. Literally. Lol.
 
Learn to play by watching and analyzing the play of others -- good and bad. Trust your first impression. It's just a game. It's supposed to be fun. Most players do not enjoy slow play. Occasional pauses are okay -- we all do it -- but again and again . . .
 
The best way to speed up slow play is to improve one's fundamentals. This will, over time, increase confidence, decrease the required effort and time for executing shots, and make the shot process become more automatic. Every missed shot gives more room for doubt in your mind, and with better fundamentals, you will miss less.
 
I'm guessing you may be lacking complete control of the cue ball and your stroke technique is not perfected.
Without it, everything becomes more challenging and the journey to the finish line could take a very long time because the most crucial instruments are absent. Over thinking, confusion, decision making, are easily clouded.
When you have the tools the rest is fairly easy to learn, separating analysis to execution becomes second nature.

There are a few methods to establish a smooth rhythm and pace, everything works together, it's a dance.
How your feet move, approach the table, move around the table, eye movement, analyzing, chalk placement, chalking, air stroking, dropping down on the shot, stroke rhythm, etc. Many players don't know how to find their groove. Once you get it down you don't realize you're doing it but you will know when you're not.
You glide around the table with a relaxed thought process just playing pool in the moment.
In the zone, there's no better feeling.
Best: SS
 
alphadog said:
Let's say you are going to pocket the 1 in the corner the 2 in the same corner and then play the 3 down the rail. You make the 1 but don't have good position to continue with the original plan. Now you look at what you have and try it anyways. Of course the plan further unravels. Now you are looking at forming a new plan but can't clear your head of what has transpired. You can't think clearly about the present when stuck in the past.
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A lot replies which i appreciate. But I think alphadog described my issue the best with his post.
 
One way to improve pace of play if decision making is at the root of it as you say is simply to study the table and look at your options while your opponent is at the table. Identifying connected balls, problems and their potential solutions can often be done in the chair. Even if balls are moved it's not all different so you at least got a lil head start on your table time.

I was recently playing a slow player and after he missed I got to the table and just got down and shot and ended up running it quickly. He mentioned my quick inning and how I even saw that out so fast. Well I didn't have to see it fast; had plenty of time to find it in the chair.

In general, keeping your head in the game and eyes on the table is good for your mental game and focus. Shaving time off your innings is a nice bonus.
 
skip100 said:
This is an unpopular opinion because it justifies rude behavior.
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I don't consider slow play to be rude but if others do that's fine by me. The issue I have is how people choose to respond.

Some respond professionally. But others respond with hostility and disrespect. In my experience the initial rude behavior is NOTHING compared to how people choose to respond to it. People have no right to act like jerks because they are impatient.

Just my opinion of course. There are a lot of things I disagree with society on so if people want to lynch slower players it's no skin off of my back.
 
How is wasting someone else’s time not rude?

If you are doing a solo session then by all means play as slowly as you want. In a league night your actions have an impact on other people whether you like it or not. Pretending otherwise is selfish.
 
alphadog said:
...I have noticed the most common cause of slow play is being fixated on a plan and then needing to change to a different plan. Let's say you are going to pocket the 1 in the corner the 2 in the same corner and then play the 3 down the rail. You make the 1 but don't have good position to continue with the original plan. Now you look at what you have and try it anyways. Of course the plan further unravels. Now you are looking at forming a new plan but can't clear your head of what has transpired. You can't think clearly about the present when stuck in the past.
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"Improvise, adapt, overcome."
--Gunnery Sgt. Highway


alphadog said:
Some others play slow because they just are slower at processing information.
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YES!
 
I haven’t read the entire thread, so this may have been already said:

You can try to do a lot of your thinking while you’re waiting for your turn to shoot. This is very important to learn for playing decent blitz chess, for example.

Remain alert while you wait.
 
I didn't read all the way through, but the first 25 replies didn't mention crucial information:

1. How long have you been playing?
2. How many hours per week?
3. How long does a shot take?
4. What is your level of play?

I had a friend who was moderately slow. Not painfully slow. I asked him to try a session playing very quickly. His play did not drop off. He had been playing for years and was decent.

Tinman is correct that one should commit to a shot. Committing to a shot doesn't mean that extensive deliberation is necessary--I'd argue that most people tend to overthink many shots and get inside their own head, impeding their ability to commit to a shot.
 
newcuer said:
A lot replies which i appreciate. But I think alphadog described my issue the best with his post.
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It’s counterproductive to spend time thinking about shots that have already happened, which have no bearing on the current situation on the table. The only person it helps is your opponent.
 
WobblyStroke said:
One way to improve pace of play if decision making is at the root of it as you say is simply to study the table and look at your options while your opponent is at the table. Identifying connected balls, problems and their potential solutions can often be done in the chair. Even if balls are moved it's not all different so you at least got a lil head start on your table time.

I was recently playing a slow player and after he missed I got to the table and just got down and shot and ended up running it quickly. He mentioned my quick inning and how I even saw that out so fast. Well I didn't have to see it fast; had plenty of time to find it in the chair.

In general, keeping your head in the game and eyes on the table is good for your mental game and focus. Shaving time off your innings is a nice bonus.
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Oops. You got there before me.
 
Tin Man said:
OK, I have an unpopular opinion. Play the speed that you shoot at when you play your best. If it is slow, let it be slow. I know there is a lot of hate for slower players but I don't care. As impatient as they are with slow players, I am equally impatient for players who hate on other players. I'm going to play my best game, if someone has a problem with it then that's what it is: Their problem. I'm not going to get bullied into playing poorly and letting other people win just because they threaten to roll their eyes at me.
So it really depends on where you spend the time and why. What are your thoughts on this?
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I'm with Justadub in that I too look forward to your posts, and I agree with your philosophy for tournaments or anything more individually oriented. But league play in APA has a few other factors that enter the mix.
We have a guy on the team that plays slower than most. He's a really good shooter, and very accurate, just takes a bit longer to get to where he's down and stroking. On regular league nights, we all know his deal, and we just accept it. The issue comes when we go to Tri-Cups or the World Qualifiers. His matches run 90 minutes and if goes hill-hill, often over 2 hours. With the 3½ hour limit at APA tournaments, this puts the others on the team at a distinct disadvantage, and we find ourselves playing sudden death almost every time.
Just last night we were playing our weekly 8-ball league and another player sat by me and said "it's not even 8:30 and we're on our fourth match already". That was the kiss of death. At 9:30, they had only played four games, safety battles, and it was after 11 by the time we finished that fifth and last match.
justadub said:
With all due respect (and I mean that as sincerely as possible...I respect everything you post here and look forward to seeing your posts) in a typical APA night, if you are "that guy", you will not be viewed well. And I'll tell you why. We're trying to get 5 matches done in hopefully 4 hours. And the players playing APA aren't nearly as good as you are, it takes quite a while for some matches, especially beginners.

I say all this as one who is probably a bit slower than the average in our room. I totally get where the OP is coming from. AND it's refreshing to see that he is aware of it and is concerned at some level.

The OP is deliberate, and that's how he feels comfortable shooting. I TOTALLY get it. Hopefully he can find a way to still manage his time at the table in a fashion that is comfortable to him, but perhaps a bit quicker than he has been till now. Rushing yourself won't help, you're right. But making 8-12 other people wait on a work night is a whole other type of pressure, too...and he won't be popular if his matches drag on too much. I know, it shouldn't be a popularity contest, and everyone should play in the manner they play best at, but there are some practical factors to account for, as well.

I do wish the OP well, as I have said a few times, I understand the conundrum quite well. I can be "methodical" as well. ;) And it's both interesting and a good thing that he recognized it in an opponent, and contrasted that to his own playing style. So he's well aware of how it impacts others.

Good luck, newcuer! Rooting for ya!
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Completely agree! Good post!
 
Another thing to mention is, there's slow, and then there's too slow. Sure, the definitions might vary depending on who you ask, but I'd say it's too slow when the league or tournament starts getting dragged out due to some individual player time and time again. 25 seconds avg per shot in 9-ball is slow, but probably won't drag the schedule, whereas 45sec avg per shot probably will.

So, don't be harsh on yourself if you play slow, but be aware of if you are dragging the schedule on a consistent basis, and if so, then do something about it for the sake of others. Perhaps try to figure out if it's your planning or execution that is slow. If it's planning, start accepting less detailed plans and trust your instincts more. If it's execution, work on your fundamentals to build trust which will, over time, speed it up.
 
Oikawa said:
Another thing to mention is, there's slow, and then there's too slow. Sure, the definitions might vary depending on who you ask, but I'd say it's too slow when the league or tournament starts getting dragged out due to some individual player time and time again. 25 seconds avg per shot in 9-ball is slow, but probably won't drag the schedule, whereas 45sec avg per shot probably will.

So, don't be harsh on yourself if you play slow, but be aware of if you are dragging the schedule on a consistent basis, and if so, then do something about it for the sake of others. Perhaps try to figure out if it's your planning or execution that is slow. If it's planning, start accepting less detailed plans and trust your instincts more. If it's execution, work on your fundamentals to build trust which will, over time, speed it up.
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25sec per shot in 9-ball is ridiculously slow.
 
DeeDeeCues said:
25sec per shot in 9-ball is ridiculously slow.
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Slow, yes, but ridiculously slow is a bit much. I played a rack with a snooker player where everyone knew he was out as soon as he broke. That rack took closer to 10min than 5min. That was ridiculously slow. When it's so bad that you start wondering if the pace is just a sharking tactic, you know it's way way too slow. Needless to say I haven't played that guy again.
 
It sounds like indecision is your main cause of slow play. I suggest treating your brain as a computer. Come up with deliberate steps that you must think through before moving forward. When it's your turn, go straight through your list of steps as quickly as possible and shoot. Here's an example:
1. Identify all reasonable options.
2. Choose two best options and forget the others.
3. If you're still undecided, figure out which option is safer and which option is riskier.
4. Go with the safer option.

This will give your brain a clear roadmap to your shot. There will be no second guessing or repeating of steps. Just go through the list quickly and shoot. Trust the process.
 
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