Full-, Half-, Shorsplice - PLEASE HELP !

[mair23]

Dear Cuemakers,

i was searching threw this forum for some hours to find a perfect explanation for the difference between these.
I have all Blue Books, all Billiard Encycolpedias, i read Mark Bears description ( http://www.bearcues.com/fullsplicecue.htm ), but i still don´t catch it exactly.
Maybe my english is not good enough or maybe i am a little idiot, but i hope you can explain it to me, so that i catch it, too. :thumbup:

Is it correct that a FULL SPLICE CUE has to be a TWO PIECE CUE ONLY ?
That there has to be no screwing or anything like it in the Cue ?
The two parts of the cue (not counting shafts) are glued together at the points (with or without veneers) ?
So that the bottom part of the Splice used, has to go down all the way until the Butt Cap ?

Or, can somebody put a Butt piece with rings and inlays below the wrap area and we could still say it´s a FULL SPLICE CUE ??

Hopefuly you can help me, because i had a discussion about that for app. two hours - WOW - i am going crazy !

And it would be nice to know what is a Halfsplice or a Shortsplice, too.

Please help, best regards
Erich

 

[matta]

Dear Cuemakers,

i was searching threw this forum for some hours to find a perfect explanation for the difference between these.
I have all Blue Books, all Billiard Encycolpedias, i read Mark Bears description ( http://www.bearcues.com/fullsplicecue.htm ), but i still don´t catch it exactly.
Maybe my english is not good enough or maybe i am a little idiot, but i hope you can explain it to me, so that i catch it, too. :thumbup:

Is it correct that a FULL SPLICE CUE has to be a TWO PIECE CUE ONLY ?

You are over thinking this. It has nothing to do with whether it is a two piece cue or not.

"Splice" refers to how the points in the forearm are constructed. "Short Splice" and "Half Splice" are the same thing.

In a full splice, the wood in the handle is also the inner wood in the point.

Full Splice Example: Maple forearm on left. Cocobolo handle on right.

See how the cocobolo on the right continues into the point without any break? No ring. No glue line. In a full splice the handle is part of the blank.

Half Splice Example: Maple forearms on right. Handles on left.

See how the handle is a completely seperate wood than what is in the points? There is generally a tennon and a metal screw attaching the handle to the forearm. There is an extra joint between the wrap and forearm. It is glued closed, though. Perhaps this is where you are getting the confusion about a two piece cue.

Most modern custom cues are half spliced.

Hope this helps,

P.S. Dzuricky, I used one of your photos. You have too many good pictures on your site. Thanks.

 

[mair23]

Dear matta,

first of all thanks for your information and help, but i think i am not happy at all now, because.....

in that case the only difference would be that the full splice has to go down a little bit in the handle - is there no term how far ?
Let´s talk about a full splice with a wrap, o.k. !
The point wood could reach app 2 - 3 inches under the wrap, then put a tenon and the screw to the next piece of wood,
and then another one for the butt sleeve piece, some rings, too and so on.

In that case i would have as much tenon and screws threw the whole cue as on a short splice or on a V-Cut.
Where is then the sense of the beautiful hit , that it realy feels like one piece - it wouldn´t be in that case.

I hope you can understand why i am a little confused !?

Is there nothing like, the point wood have to go down threw the whole handle piece to be a full splice or something like that.

Because if not i don´t catch the big difference between short or full !?
Could be only 2 inches more before i start with another wood and screw - and that´s it !?

Thanks in advance for all your help
best regards,
Erich

 

[hangemhigh]

Erich, the top cue in this photo is a full splice cue with an inlaid ring above the wrap. A John Davis blank, constructed using Burton Spain's weight saving technique, the double splice. Enjoy!

 

[mair23]

Erich, the top cue in this photo is a full splice cue with an inlaid ring above the wrap. A John Davis blank, constructed using Burton Spain's weight saving technique, the double splice. Enjoy!

Come on, hangemhigh !
You are confusing me more and more - i go crazy :angry:
Help me understand ! A Ring ? Double Splice ? Come on
And by the way, the cue looks amazing :thumbup:
Erich

 

[hangemhigh]

Come on, hangemhigh !
You are confusing me more and more - i go crazy :angry:
Help me understand ! A Ring ? Double Splice ? Come on
And by the way, the cue looks amazing :thumbup:
Erich

Erich,
Here is a pic of the cue sans wrap. You can see where we inlaid the ring above the wrap (a-joint) as well as the butterfly splice developed by Burton Spain. The second splice allows you to use a lighter wood that the point wood, in this case Ebony points and Maple handle wood, while retaining the hit of a full spliced cue. Mr. Spain was a genius, and this idea is one of genius. I might point out as well that the dashes in the butt section of the cue are inlaid Ivory as well, giving the appearance of rings, but they are inlays. Thanks for the compliment on the cue, it was a beautiful piece.

 

[mair23]

Erich,
Here is a pic of the cue sans wrap. You can see where we inlaid the ring above the wrap (a-joint) as well as the butterfly splice developed by Burton Spain. The second splice allows you to use a lighter wood that the point wood, in this case Ebony points and Maple handle wood, while retaining the hit of a full spliced cue. Mr. Spain was a genius, and this idea is one of genius. I might point out as well that the dashes in the butt section of the cue are inlaid Ivory as well, giving the appearance of rings, but they are inlays. Thanks for the compliment on the cue, it was a beautiful piece.

Dear hangemhigh,

o.k. - great, but that for me sounds like there is now screw or tenon in the whole cue, correct !?
He made inlays which look like rings, he made another splice under the wrap because of the weight !
And how he came back to the ebony butt sleeve ?
Or is the butt sleeve on it with a srew ?

That leaves the question, how far has the woods to go back without a screw to be a FULL SPLICE ?

Erich

 

[rhncue]

Dear matta,

first of all thanks for your information and help, but i think i am not happy at all now, because.....

in that case the only difference would be that the full splice has to go down a little bit in the handle - is there no term how far ?
Let´s talk about a full splice with a wrap, o.k. !
The point wood could reach app 2 - 3 inches under the wrap, then put a tenon and the screw to the next piece of wood,
and then another one for the butt sleeve piece, some rings, too and so on.

In that case i would have as much tenon and screws threw the whole cue as on a short splice or on a V-Cut.
Where is then the sense of the beautiful hit , that it realy feels like one piece - it wouldn´t be in that case.

I hope you can understand why i am a little confused !?

Is there nothing like, the point wood have to go down threw the whole handle piece to be a full splice or something like that.

Because if not i don´t catch the big difference between short or full !?
Could be only 2 inches more before i start with another wood and screw - and that´s it !?

Thanks in advance for all your help
best regards,
Erich

Truthfully, the correct answers to your questions are, who knows! This has been brought up before on this forum and some came to conclusions of what they thought the different phrases meant but that doesn't mean that they are correct. I have my meanings and others have theirs. Who is correct? Your opinion is as good as mine or anyone else's.

Dick

 

[hangemhigh]

Dear hangemhigh,

o.k. - great, but that for me sounds like there is now screw or tenon in the whole cue, correct !?
He made inlays which look like rings, he made another splice under the wrap because of the weight !
And how he came back to the ebony butt sleeve ?
Or is the butt sleeve on it with a srew ?

That leaves the question, how far has the woods to go back without a screw to be a FULL SPLICE ?

Erich

The butt sleeve is attached with a tenon, all wood, no metal. Having to add a butt sleeve does not detract from a full splice cue. Most Titlist conversions have to have a Butt sleeve added.

 

[hangemhigh]

Truthfully, the correct answers to your questions are, who knows! This has been brought up before on this forum and some came to conclusions of what they thought the different phrases meant but that doesn't mean that they are correct. I have my meanings and others have theirs. Who is correct? Your opinion is as good as mine or anyone else's.

Dick

Hey Dick, he would benefit from your view, I think it would help him tremendously.

 

[mair23]

Dear Dick and hangemhigh,

you are both helping me absolutely with your descriptions and pics - that absolutely great - thanks.

You know, my english isn´t that good, but i will try to explain my main confusion.

I think in all sorts of spliced cues, the forearm and the points are two pieces of wood (forget veneers or recuts, o.k.) - SPLICED together.
That means two pieces who fit perfect into each other - correct !?

But in my understanding from what i heard here, i could let the wood of the points go 2 inches under the wrap and then cut it. Put a screw and another wood on it and it still would be a FULL SPLICE !?

But if i would do this cut directly at the wrap it would be a SHORT SPLICE !?

Sorry, but there will be no difference in how the cue will hit and feel.
So why make the difference in FULL and SHORT !?

And that was the reason why i thought it has to be only two pieces of wood threw the whole cue to be a FULL SPLICE.

I hope i could wrote it in a way that you know what i mean, and maybe you can tell me where the mistake in my thinking is !!

Erich

 

[Jule]

I think, it's a problem of definition.
While "full spliced points" is a technical term without much room for interpretation, the term "fullsplice cue" leaves much in the open and is a question of philosophy.

For example the cue in your example would be a cue with fullspliced points, but without a fullsplice-hit. So is it a "fullsplice cue"?



I could be totally wrong of course :blush:

 

[JoeyInCali]

If it has a connecting screw, it cannot be fullsplice.
That would a short-splice.

 

[mair23]

If it has a connecting screw, it cannot be fullsplice.
That would a short-splice.

Dear Joey,

now we are at the start again, because i thought that, too.
But is there a difference where the screw would be ?
Lets say the screw is to connect the wraped handle piece with the butt sleeve piece ?
Full Splice gone, sorry - now it´s only a Short Splice ?

best regards,
Erich

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

Erich, here are pictures of full splice cues in the making. You can see that the forearm and handle are indeed 2 pieces before they are glued together and turned down smooth on a lathe. These are glued together with no connection screw. The piece that looks like a prong is the handle and the piece that has pointed grooves cut into it is going to be the forearm. The cuemaker can still cut a groove in the handle for a wrap if he wishes.

These pics are borrowed from either a cuemakers website or were posted here on AZ (I can't remember which). I kept them for myself originally so I could study them.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Dear Joey,

now we are at the start again, because i thought that, too.
But is there a difference where the screw would be ?
Lets say the screw is to connect the wraped handle piece with the butt sleeve piece ?
Full Splice gone, sorry - now it´s only a Short Splice ?

best regards,
Erich

No.
If the forearm and handle are screwed together, it's a short splice.
The buttsleeve is not screwed in anyway. They are not threaded.
The buttplate at the bottom is.

 

[mair23]

No.
If the forearm and handle are screwed together, it's a short splice.
The buttsleeve is not screwed in anyway. They are not threaded.
The buttplate at the bottom is.

Thanks Joey,
maybe i have a definition problem.
The whole piece behind the wrap area where inlays most of the time are done - is the buttsleeve ?
If yes, i thought there is a screw which holds this piece together with the handle piece ?

So if it´s not a FULL SPLICE you, we have three different pieces srewed together. Forearm - handle piece - butt or buttsleeve, correct ?

And a FULL SPLICE should have no screw, correct ?
So it should be glued together at the points and then ran threw the end of the cue in !

Erich

 

[mair23]

Erich, here are pictures of full splice cues in the making. You can see that the forearm and handle are indeed 2 pieces before they are glued together and turned down smooth on a lathe. These are glued together with no connection screw. The piece that looks like a prong is the handle and the piece that has pointed grooves cut into it is going to be the forearm. The cuemaker can still cut a groove in the handle for a wrap if he wishes.

Great pics Blue Hog ridr,
but how long is the point piece ?
how fars it has to go down in the cue ?
Is there any rule or definition for that to be a Full Splice ?

Because if not, like i said i could cut this piece where i want and then it would not realy make a difference to a short splice, or..... ?

Erich

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

Those would be questions that a cuemaker can answer. I measured one of mine and the points on the finished cue are 6 and a half inches.

 

[Michael Webb]

In my shop, The terminology is, If it has a splice below the points with a bolt and a tenon, (Short splice)
If it looks like a Davis blank in which the splice is not part of the point construction, (full half splice)
If the top and bottom splice together the full length of the points, whether it has veneers or not, (True full splice)