Fundamentals - Fluency Of Delivery

Pidge

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Having a fluent cue delivery is what every player strives for. To some, a long slow backswing, a rather long pause and then BAM! accelerate and watch the cue ball dance around the table is a sign of a beautiful stroke. To others a herky jerky short jabby stroke is something to be admired. I don't care for either, each to their own. What I care for is finding a persons own fluency and making it the best it can possibly be. Everyone has a world class stroke in them, its just a matter of picking a few things apart and making you aware of what is going on so that you can make a conscious effort to practice it and to beat this knowledge into your muscle memory to help you player better and cue the white where you want more often.

First things first - why do you not hit the cue ball where you intended some times? The wrist and grip is most likely the main culprits. Body movement is also a cause but we will get to that in a bit. So, the wrist...we would all be better off as pool players if we didn't have a wrist. There isn't much feeling in the wrist and its hard to control something you cant feel so it tends to do what it wants. You can try locking it, but this causes tension in the forearm and can cause body movement and doesn't let the cue get through the cue ball fluently, which isn't a problem usually but becomes apparent on shots with power when you then try forcing the cue ball with muscles rather than timing and you don't get the reaction you intended. The grip will screw you over too at the first possible opportunity. It clenches when you don't want it to and this really slows the cues delivery down. A little test to do is to pull the cue ball very slowly with the tip right back to the bridge. Now stop everything and stay still. Notice how the hand and wrist is placed, how much pressure is on the cue, and what bits of the hand are still on the cue. Now, push the cue forward trying to keep the wrist and hand exactly the same until the cue ball is gone. This is exactly how you want to cue. Pull it back, pause for a second to get a feel for how things are working and start to move the cue forward without clenching or twisting the wrist. Get a feel for driving the cue forward with the elbow starting the forward motion. You should be hitting the ball clean and crisp.

Now to fluency. Understanding that the backswing and forward stroke are two separate phases is a must. Pulling the cue back 100mph doesn't mean you will cue forward 100mph. So, keep the backswing slow, very slow so you can keep the cue as level as possible and on the plane you intended. As you start to move the cue forward start slow. Nice and slow for the first cm-inch and gradually increase the speed. This serves a couple of purposes. Firstly, how you cue I the first inch forward has the biggest effect of the rest of the forward swing. So nice and slow keeping it on the desired plane will help with accuracy on the cue ball. Secondly it promotes a sharp acceleration at the time of contact with the white giving you the most reaction you can possibly get. More reaction on the white means you can hit shots slower and make the pockets feel that bit bigger. It will feel alien to some trying this, but take a look at all the top snooker players. Not one of them look like they're in a rush to hit the ball.

Hopefully this will help some, if not, throw it onto the pile.

Pidge.
 
I have been playing while holding the cue with my index finger and thumb with nothing else really touching the cue. The problem with it is that I can't really feel the cue and on power shots I have to be careful about getting the cue up to speed . Usually it makes me accelerate smooth and I don't have the same accuracy when I let the wrist be involved.


I play a lot more comfortable using more of my hand but if my hand tenses any at all it throws my accuracy off. Even though I'm understanding that my wrist is a problem I still don't have a solid comfortable fix
 
Having a fluent cue delivery is what every player strives for. To some, a long slow backswing, a rather long pause and then BAM! accelerate and watch the cue ball dance around the table is a sign of a beautiful stroke. To others a herky jerky short jabby stroke is something to be admired. I don't care for either, each to their own. What I care for is finding a persons own fluency and making it the best it can possibly be. Everyone has a world class stroke in them, its just a matter of picking a few things apart and making you aware of what is going on so that you can make a conscious effort to practice it and to beat this knowledge into your muscle memory to help you player better and cue the white where you want more often.

First things first - why do you not hit the cue ball where you intended some times? The wrist and grip is most likely the main culprits. Body movement is also a cause but we will get to that in a bit. So, the wrist...we would all be better off as pool players if we didn't have a wrist. There isn't much feeling in the wrist and its hard to control something you cant feel so it tends to do what it wants. You can try locking it, but this causes tension in the forearm and can cause body movement and doesn't let the cue get through the cue ball fluently, which isn't a problem usually but becomes apparent on shots with power when you then try forcing the cue ball with muscles rather than timing and you don't get the reaction you intended. The grip will screw you over too at the first possible opportunity. It clenches when you don't want it to and this really slows the cues delivery down. A little test to do is to pull the cue ball very slowly with the tip right back to the bridge. Now stop everything and stay still. Notice how the hand and wrist is placed, how much pressure is on the cue, and what bits of the hand are still on the cue. Now, push the cue forward trying to keep the wrist and hand exactly the same until the cue ball is gone. This is exactly how you want to cue. Pull it back, pause for a second to get a feel for how things are working and start to move the cue forward without clenching or twisting the wrist. Get a feel for driving the cue forward with the elbow starting the forward motion. You should be hitting the ball clean and crisp.

Now to fluency. Understanding that the backswing and forward stroke are two separate phases is a must. Pulling the cue back 100mph doesn't mean you will cue forward 100mph. So, keep the backswing slow, very slow so you can keep the cue as level as possible and on the plane you intended. As you start to move the cue forward start slow. Nice and slow for the first cm-inch and gradually increase the speed. This serves a couple of purposes. Firstly, how you cue I the first inch forward has the biggest effect of the rest of the forward swing. So nice and slow keeping it on the desired plane will help with accuracy on the cue ball. Secondly it promotes a sharp acceleration at the time of contact with the white giving you the most reaction you can possibly get. More reaction on the white means you can hit shots slower and make the pockets feel that bit bigger. It will feel alien to some trying this, but take a look at all the top snooker players. Not one of them look like they're in a rush to hit the ball.

Hopefully this will help some, if not, throw it onto the pile.

Pidge.

Very complicated thread. There too many over complicated threads. If I put that much thought into anything I would suffer paralysis. Whatever happened to the KISS principle. After all how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
 
Nice post Pidge. It took me a long time to get in the habit of slowing down my back swing and it has helped greatly.
However when I do the pause my arm tenses up completely and I miss every time so I gave up on that for now. I am going to see an instructor soon maybe they can give me some insight :P
 
Nice post Pidge. It took me a long time to get in the habit of slowing down my back swing and it has helped greatly.
However when I do the pause my arm tenses up completely and I miss every time so I gave up on that for now. I am going to see an instructor soon maybe they can give me some insight :P
The pause isn't for everyone. It can completely ruin your game if you don't naturally have it to start. If you don't have a pause naturally, trying to implement one yourself is a bad idea.
 
All these thread really show is that most people lack proper practice. If you can't hit the cue ball where you want, practice better. If you need to look at the CB to see where you are gona hit it, practice better.

When I get into my shooting stance, I know exactly where to place my bridge hand for where to hit the CB.

And without discussing a specific shot, these types of threads are nothing more then mental masterbation.

I've had to do shots with a locked wrist, shots where the use of the wrist was necessary. If you can not do both, you need to add that to your practice.

Some shots I pause, others I don't. It all depends on the shot and shooting position.

It is the shooting position, and ball layout that controls your stance and stroke and you need to be able to adapt to those conditions and not try to make those conditions adapt to your style of play.

Good read below ......most on here haven't made it to the other side, no matter how they act or present themselves.

http://shutterfinger.typepad.com/sh...rned-the-art-a-punch-was-just-a-punch-an.html
 
All these thread really show is that most people lack proper practice. If you can't hit the cue ball where you want, practice better. If you need to look at the CB to see where you are gona hit it, practice better.

When I get into my shooting stance, I know exactly where to place my bridge hand for where to hit the CB.

And without discussing a specific shot, these types of threads are nothing more then mental masterbation.

I've had to do shots with a locked wrist, shots where the use of the wrist was necessary. If you can not do both, you need to add that to your practice.

Some shots I pause, others I don't. It all depends on the shot and shooting position.

It is the shooting position, and ball layout that controls your stance and stroke and you need to be able to adapt to those conditions and not try to make those conditions adapt to your style of play.

Good read below ......most on here haven't made it to the other side, no matter how they act or present themselves.

http://shutterfinger.typepad.com/sh...rned-the-art-a-punch-was-just-a-punch-an.html

Apparently, you didn't understand the article you linked too. ;)
 
The pause isn't for everyone. It can completely ruin your game if you don't naturally have it to start. If you don't have a pause naturally, trying to implement one yourself is a bad idea.

I think this post is right on. I found out for myself it is very, very difficult to insert a pause into my stroke. Just isn`t natural for me.
 
Having a fluent cue delivery is what every player strives for. To some, a long slow backswing, a rather long pause and then BAM! accelerate and watch the cue ball dance around the table is a sign of a beautiful stroke. To others a herky jerky short jabby stroke is something to be admired. I don't care for either, each to their own. What I care for is finding a persons own fluency and making it the best it can possibly be. Everyone has a world class stroke in them, its just a matter of picking a few things apart and making you aware of what is going on so that you can make a conscious effort to practice it and to beat this knowledge into your muscle memory to help you player better and cue the white where you want more often.

First things first - why do you not hit the cue ball where you intended some times? The wrist and grip is most likely the main culprits. Body movement is also a cause but we will get to that in a bit. So, the wrist...we would all be better off as pool players if we didn't have a wrist. There isn't much feeling in the wrist and its hard to control something you cant feel so it tends to do what it wants. You can try locking it, but this causes tension in the forearm and can cause body movement and doesn't let the cue get through the cue ball fluently, which isn't a problem usually but becomes apparent on shots with power when you then try forcing the cue ball with muscles rather than timing and you don't get the reaction you intended. The grip will screw you over too at the first possible opportunity. It clenches when you don't want it to and this really slows the cues delivery down. A little test to do is to pull the cue ball very slowly with the tip right back to the bridge. Now stop everything and stay still. Notice how the hand and wrist is placed, how much pressure is on the cue, and what bits of the hand are still on the cue. Now, push the cue forward trying to keep the wrist and hand exactly the same until the cue ball is gone. This is exactly how you want to cue. Pull it back, pause for a second to get a feel for how things are working and start to move the cue forward without clenching or twisting the wrist. Get a feel for driving the cue forward with the elbow starting the forward motion. You should be hitting the ball clean and crisp.

Now to fluency. Understanding that the backswing and forward stroke are two separate phases is a must. Pulling the cue back 100mph doesn't mean you will cue forward 100mph. So, keep the backswing slow, very slow so you can keep the cue as level as possible and on the plane you intended. As you start to move the cue forward start slow. Nice and slow for the first cm-inch and gradually increase the speed. This serves a couple of purposes. Firstly, how you cue I the first inch forward has the biggest effect of the rest of the forward swing. So nice and slow keeping it on the desired plane will help with accuracy on the cue ball. Secondly it promotes a sharp acceleration at the time of contact with the white giving you the most reaction you can possibly get. More reaction on the white means you can hit shots slower and make the pockets feel that bit bigger. It will feel alien to some trying this, but take a look at all the top snooker players. Not one of them look like they're in a rush to hit the ball.

Hopefully this will help some, if not, throw it onto the pile.

Pidge.

I think this is a good post. It squares with what I've learned and been taught. The responses to posts of this kind are pretty typical of AZ.

There are some who will say "just hit it" and "don't think". Players that were probably naturally talented and havent' gotten to the place where their natural talent is pushed to it's limits and extremely hard work is required to get further. It can also be people who protect their egos from the obvious lack of progress they're making: "Whatever, I don't take the game seriously anyway".

Others will latch on to their particular hobby horse and ride like nothings ever been ridden. "The wrist must be locked", "Blah, blah Cranfelds arrow, Blah, blah TOI /CTE."

Also there are those scoffers who refuse to learn anything from anyone who's not a world champion, but if the world champion later posts a small excerpt from what you wrote they are falling over each other trying to suck up. These are people who are not smart/critical enough to evaluate statements on their own merits, but need others to approve their every opinion, like women who only buy books recommended by Oprah.

There are some small technical aspects in what you wrote I think is debateable, but I don't intend to go into it too much, as a proper debate is not possible in this forum, at least not for a nobody like me. I'll have to wait until a pro says what I wanted to say.;), but I will say that I think starting the forward stroke fluidly and on line is one of the biggest challenges in the game, and I don't think it can be achieved before the backswing has been mastered.
 
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Now to fluency. Understanding that the backswing and forward stroke are two separate phases is a must. Pulling the cue back 100mph doesn't mean you will cue forward 100mph. So, keep the backswing slow, very slow so you can keep the cue as level as possible and on the plane you intended. As you start to move the cue forward start slow. Nice and slow for the first cm-inch and gradually increase the speed. This serves a couple of purposes. Firstly, how you cue I the first inch forward has the biggest effect of the rest of the forward swing. So nice and slow keeping it on the desired plane will help with accuracy on the cue ball. Secondly it promotes a sharp acceleration at the time of contact with the white giving you the most reaction you can possibly get. More reaction on the white means you can hit shots slower and make the pockets feel that bit bigger.It will feel alien to some trying this, but take a look at all the top snooker players. Not one of them look like they're in a rush to hit the ball.

I like most of this, but I'm curious why you think the part in bold is true.
 
Fluency of Delivery

Having a fluent cue delivery is what every player strives for.

Now to fluency.
I think you must mean "fluid" and "fluidity" - as in moving smoothly like a fluid.

...[a slow stroke start] promotes a sharp acceleration at the time of contact with the white giving you the most reaction you can possibly get.
To pick a nit: The amount of acceleration (the rate of speed change) at contact doesn't matter; only the tip's speed matters. And for the spin-to-speed part of the CB's reaction (how spin effectiveness is measured), only where the tip contacts the CB (how far from center) matters.

There are only three things that matter during tip/CB contact: cue/stroke angle, tip/CB contact spot, and tip speed - Angle-Spot-Speed (an easy-to-remember acronym).

More reaction on the white means you can hit shots slower and make the pockets feel that bit bigger.
Like SloppyPockets, I don't know quite what you mean by this. Hitting the CB more precisely gives the feeling that you don't have to hit as hard for the same CB action - but again, that's not a function of acceleration; it's a function of tip/CB accuracy (which is probably helped by a fluid stroke).

pj
chgo
 
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[...]
Now to fluency. Understanding that the backswing and forward stroke are two separate phases is a must. Pulling the cue back 100mph doesn't mean you will cue forward 100mph. So, keep the backswing slow, very slow so you can keep the cue as level as possible and on the plane you intended. As you start to move the cue forward start slow. Nice and slow for the first cm-inch and gradually increase the speed. This serves a couple of purposes. Firstly, how you cue I the first inch forward has the biggest effect of the rest of the forward swing. So nice and slow keeping it on the desired plane will help with accuracy on the cue ball. Secondly it promotes a sharp acceleration at the time of contact with the white giving you the most reaction you can possibly get. More reaction on the white means you can hit shots slower and make the pockets feel that bit bigger. It will feel alien to some trying this, but take a look at all the top snooker players. Not one of them look like they're in a rush to hit the ball.

Hopefully this will help some, if not, throw it onto the pile.

Pidge.

The unique thing that jumped out at me from this post was the bolded part above -- starting the forward stroke slowly. This isn't something I've ever really tried on purpose but it makes a lot of sense. It seems like this method would put your focus on cueing smooth and precise instead of cueing fast. Speed kills when it comes to my stroke. When I get cueing too fast it never ends well.
 
All these thread really show is that most people lack proper practice. If you can't hit the cue ball where you want, practice better. If you need to look at the CB to see where you are gona hit it, practice better.

When I get into my shooting stance, I know exactly where to place my bridge hand for where to hit the CB.

And without discussing a specific shot, these types of threads are nothing more then mental masterbation.

I've had to do shots with a locked wrist, shots where the use of the wrist was necessary. If you can not do both, you need to add that to your practice.

Some shots I pause, others I don't. It all depends on the shot and shooting position.

It is the shooting position, and ball layout that controls your stance and stroke and you need to be able to adapt to those conditions and not try to make those conditions adapt to your style of play.

Good read below ......most on here haven't made it to the other side, no matter how they act or present themselves.

http://shutterfinger.typepad.com/sh...rned-the-art-a-punch-was-just-a-punch-an.html
Are you some kind of midget that cant get into your normal stance 90% of the time? You need to stop the thought of letting the shot dictate how you shoot it. Once you realise that you dictate what shot you are about to play then you will stop with the utterly pointless posts you make.

You yap on about structured practice, yet when a structure is posted on how to practice fundamentals you pipe up thinking you are some kind of authority that people pay attention to. You aren't.

To be an authority figure you have to practice what you preach. I've seen you play and you're all over the place. Some shots you have a pause, some shots you don't you say...perhaps that's the reason you play at league level. You lack consistency pal. I've played against the best snooker players in the world and held my own. That is my authority.
 
I think this is a good post. It squares with what I've learned and been taught. The responses to posts of this kind are pretty typical of AZ.

There are some who will say "just hit it" and "don't think". Players that were probably naturally talented and havent' gotten to the place where their natural talent is pushed to it's limits and extremely hard work is required to get further. It can also be people who protect their egos from the obvious lack of progress they're making: "Whatever, I don't take the game seriously anyway".

Others will latch on to their particular hobby horse and ride like nothings ever been ridden. "The wrist must be locked", "Blah, blah Cranfelds arrow, Blah, blah TOI /CTE."

Also there are those scoffers who refuse to learn anything from anyone who's not a world champion, but if the world champion later posts a small excerpt from what you wrote they are falling over each other trying to suck up. These are people who are not smart/critical enough to evaluate statements on their own merits, but need others to approve their every opinion, like women who only buy books recommended by Oprah.

There are some small technical aspects in what you wrote I think is debateable, but I don't intend to go into it too much, as a proper debate is not possible in this forum, at least not for a nobody like me. I'll have to wait until a pro says what I wanted to say.;), but I will say that I think starting the forward stroke fluidly and on line is one of the biggest challenges in the game, and I don't think it can be achieved before the backswing has been mastered.

Post of the year so far.
 
All these thread really show is that most people lack proper practice. If you can't hit the cue ball where you want, practice better. If you need to look at the CB to see where you are gona hit it, practice better.

When I get into my shooting stance, I know exactly where to place my bridge hand for where to hit the CB.

And without discussing a specific shot, these types of threads are nothing more then mental masterbation.

I've had to do shots with a locked wrist, shots where the use of the wrist was necessary. If you can not do both, you need to add that to your practice.

Some shots I pause, others I don't. It all depends on the shot and shooting position.

It is the shooting position, and ball layout that controls your stance and stroke and you need to be able to adapt to those conditions and not try to make those conditions adapt to your style of play.

Good read below ......most on here haven't made it to the other side, no matter how they act or present themselves.

http://shutterfinger.typepad.com/sh...rned-the-art-a-punch-was-just-a-punch-an.html
Practicing to be inconsistant. Sounds like a winning plan.
 
Duckie

That is the craziest thing I have seen from someone trying to give good advice on how to improve in pocket billiards. I use the op technique with a slow back stroke and and smooth follow through. It is a great fundamental. Just look at Darren Appleton or svb. They both do that as well as many other top pros. I don't see any top pros playing how you said. So all I can say to you is practice better
 
The pause isn't for everyone. It can completely ruin your game if you don't naturally have it to start. If you don't have a pause naturally, trying to implement one yourself is a bad idea.

The back pause isn't for everyone Pidge, like a lot of the snooker players have. A front pause works better for a lot of players who have the trouble with the back pause and not being able to release the cue.
 
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