Fundamentals - Stance & Alignment

Pidge

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You can't talk about stance without alignment, and visa versa. All of what I'm about to write is for a right handed player and it wont be ideal for some. If you can't physically get your chin on the cue you may want to stop reading now.

First things first, the purpose of the stance is to provide stability, comfort and a repeatable way to stand when addressing the cue ball. Lets start with the feet. The feet have the biggest influence of how the hips, shoulders and head will be aligned. I personally have the feet parallel to one another, with the right foot pointing straight down the line of the shot, and the left square to this and parallel to the line of the shot. This makes the hips and shoulders very square on to the shot. Someone who has never had the feet this square will find it very uncomfortable, so it isn't for everyone. Instead, most people will benefit more from a stance that is roughly 45 degrees to the line of the shot. The right foot again is on the line of the shot (it can be pointing directly down the line, or angled out to relieve some stress from the knee and ankle) and the left foot is out in front with the foot parallel to the cue, or slightly outward facing. If you drew a line from heel to heel it would be roughly 45 degrees to where the cue is pointing. The distance between feet again depends on comfort. Start of shoulder width, and widen or shorten the gap until you find what's most comfortable. Not too close, not too far apart. Now onto the legs...the right leg should be straight and locked. Not leaning back on the heel, not leaning forward on the toes but straight up. The left leg will be bent. If its uncomfortable to play with a locked right leg then instead of bending the knee, widen the stance, but keep it locked. Playing with two bent legs is not as stable.

Now, the upper body - starting at the hips, you've placed your feet now you are ready to get down... Don't just bend tight down! This throws the head off line for most, so instead you want to turn the hips slightly to make the left shoulder closer to the table, but at the same time bend at the hips. More of a twist and bend rather than a traditional bend. This does several things: it moves the right hip out of the way of where the cue will be, distributes the weight between both feet, angles the chest outward slightly and moves the back shoulder behind the left shoulder. As you bend you need to be getting your bridge hand in place, once you do and your stick is perfectly aligned, STOP TWISTING!! Instead lower straight down nice and slow until the chest hits the cue. DONT BRING THE CUE INTO THE CHEST as this ruins your alignment. Then look att the shot with the chin just off the cue, make sure it looks right, then drop the chin onto the cue. Then stop and check everything looks ok, then start your practice strokes.

You should now have 4 points of contact with the cue: chin, chest, bridge, grip. All of these points of contact help to keep the cue on line, and five you a physical feeling of how the shot should feel, so if the cue isn't touching the chest and chin in the usual places, then you know something's wrong and can stand up and start again.

The bridge arm can be straight or bent, if you use a square stance like me, It will almost always have to be bent. The back shoulder should be directly over the cue, as should the elbow, with the forearm pointing straight down, and the grip inline with the shoulder and elbow.

Again, I can't stress enough....if you have back problems or for what ever reason can't get the chin or chest on the cue then this isn't for you. And, left handers reading this just apply and reverse everything is said. Enjoy :-)
 
Pidge...I agree with LOTS of your posts. Putting your chin on the cue is not necessary to play at a high level. Aiming and alignment are both perceptual. As long as the person finds their correct "vision center", and have learned a way to deliver the cue in a straight line, it doesn't matter how high or low their head is oriented over the cuestick. What easily keeps the cue "on line" is a pendulum stroke, as the elbow is a hinge and has to move in a straight line (tension in your stroke is the only thing that will cause the cuestick to deviate from this natural straight line). Many players, myself included, "see" the shotline better from higher up. I stand, for many shots, with my head about 10" over the cuestick. Other players have health issues that prevent them from bending down that low. There is no one-size-fits-all for anything pool. :D

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
 
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Pidge...I agree with LOTS of your posts. Putting your chin on the cue is not necessary to play at a high level. Aiming and alignment are both perceptual. As long as the person finds their correct "vision center", and have learned a way to deliver the cue in a straight line, it doesn't matter how high or low their head is oriented over the cuestick. What easily keeps the cue "on line" is a pendulum stroke, as the elbow is a hinge and has to move in a straight line (tension in your stroke is the only thing that will cause the cuestick to deviate from this natural straight line). Many players, myself included, "see" the shotline better from higher up. I stand, for many shots, with my head about 10" over the cuestick. Other players have health issues that prevent them from bending down that low. There is no one-size-fits-all for anything pool. :D

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
No it definitely isn't necessary. I know nothing about not having your chin on the cue so I can't say anything on that matter. I've always played this way, so I'm writing purely from what I've found helpful.

What I have found is when I don't have my chin on the cue, the chest isn't touching the cue also. For me, this makes my arm shoot all over the place, and I find I get an obscure picture of where my tip is lined up vertically on the cue ball.
 
Let the eyes lead and the body follow. Looking through the middle of the cueball for the shot line you do the exact opposite. Looking through the edge of the CB will shorten your learning curve with all of your fundamentals.

BLADE

steviemoore.com
justcueit.com
mezzusa.com
 
Let the eyes lead and the body follow. Looking through the middle of the cueball for the shot line you do the exact opposite. Looking through the edge of the CB will shorten your learning curve with all of your fundamentals.

BLADE

steviemoore.com
justcueit.com
mezzusa.com
I have to disagree. This is why so many people struggle. They arrive from an offset position because they've spent all their PSR focusing on the edges when they want to hit centre. Aligning your stance to the part of the object ball you want to hit will lessen the learning curve in my experience.
 
Nice post as usual Pidge.

I wish I would have read this years ago when I switched over to a snooker stance, although I would have probably read right past the needed parts. It seems with this game you can't acquire the needed knowledge until your game is ready for it....oh well.

The big part that I didn't do right was the hip twist. So when I would get down over the ball I was too square. This became evident when I saw myself on video and from a straight ahead vantage point I could clearly see my entire right shoulder. I then realized I wasn't twisting into position properly. This is something I still struggle with but it's not as bad as it was a few years back.
 
Nice post as usual Pidge.

I wish I would have read this years ago when I switched over to a snooker stance, although I would have probably read right past the needed parts. It seems with this game you can't acquire the needed knowledge until your game is ready for it....oh well.

The big part that I didn't do right was the hip twist. So when I would get down over the ball I was too square. This became evident when I saw myself on video and from a straight ahead vantage point I could clearly see my entire right shoulder. I then realized I wasn't twisting into position properly. This is something I still struggle with but it's not as bad as it was a few years back.
Do you walk into the shot?

One thing I would recommend getting used to is when stood upright with the feet set in position, you naturally have to place most of your weight onto the right leg and lean over to the right slightly to get your head and vision centre set through centre cue ball. Then just see it as a transfer of weight onto the left leg. Twist, shift the weight balance and drop. If you keep focused on your head and vision centre being constantly on the line of the shot as you twist and bend you won't go too wrong with alignment.

Like with everything, it does take a lot of practice, and conscious practice at first. But it does become automatic eventually :-)
 
I have to disagree. This is why so many people struggle. They arrive from an offset position because they've spent all their PSR focusing on the edges when they want to hit centre. Aligning your stance to the part of the object ball you want to hit will lessen the learning curve in my experience.

I disagree. Your body is offset from the shot line. People trying to somehow stand straight behind the shot line and move perfectly 100% straight into it causes significant struggles IMHO.
 
I'm talking from my experience. I move directly into the shot along the shot line. You CTE'ers are different. The method you choose to use doesn't make this possible. At the risk of making this a flame war, I think we should end it here.
 
Do you walk into the shot?

One thing I would recommend getting used to is when stood upright with the feet set in position, you naturally have to place most of your weight onto the right leg and lean over to the right slightly to get your head and vision centre set through centre cue ball. Then just see it as a transfer of weight onto the left leg. Twist, shift the weight balance and drop. If you keep focused on your head and vision centre being constantly on the line of the shot as you twist and bend you won't go too wrong with alignment.

Like with everything, it does take a lot of practice, and conscious practice at first. But it does become automatic eventually :-)

Good description, Pidge. As most know, I'm a big advocate for the snooker stance and the PSR that goes part-and-parcel with it.

A properly-implemented snooker stance should feel like you're up against a wall on the right side of your body (if a right-hander), and vice-versa for a left-hander. And your stroke arm should feel like it's on train tracks, with the traditional four-point contact (from back to front: 1. grip hand; 2. chest; 3. chin; 4. bridge). It's not easy to do any kind of pivoting while locked down into the stance, so if you're a pivot-aimer (e.g. CTE/Pro-1), you have to do this before fully bending down into the stance (i.e. before the chin and chest touches the cue).

Naturally, I disagree with Stevie Moore ("BLADE") that if you somehow just implement CTE/Pro-1, that your fundamentals will automatically follow. Nothing could be further from the truth. Sure, once you gain confidence from improved play through better aiming, your fundamentals get an indirect boost. But improved aiming is not an "automatic pull-through" for improved fundamentals. You still have to focus on and periodically review your fundamentals.

-Sean
 
I have to disagree. This is why so many people struggle. They arrive from an offset position because they've spent all their PSR focusing on the edges when they want to hit centre. Aligning your stance to the part of the object ball you want to hit will lessen the learning curve in my experience.

I would think Stevie Moore would know but different strokes for different folks
 
I would think Stevie Moore would know but different strokes for different folks

You'd think, but great players often really don't know much about mechanics. They also don't often know much about the physics of pool on a detailed level.

They do all know a lot about shot selection, tactics, and the mental game, because these are things you can't help but be conscious of, and they wouldn't be great players if they didn't do these things very well. I'll let Stevie's words go unquestioned on topics like those.

-Andrew
 
I disagree. Your body is offset from the shot line. People trying to somehow stand straight behind the shot line and move perfectly 100% straight into it causes significant struggles IMHO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wafKOsa8-M

This is what Nic Barrow teaches concerning moving straight into the shot line. I would assume this is the standard in snooker. I have heard Gene Albrecht teaches something similar with the use of a mirror.

This is something I have been working on lately. It doesn't seem as hard to do as you suggest. Tips are given on how to do it properly.
 
I recently...

In the last several months I switched to a more square stance myself..

Actually I switched to a snooker stance with my back leg straight and my front leg slightly bent, allowing me to get low on the cue while keeping my body out of the line of the shot and still keeping my hips and body square to the shot.

It was funny, because Up in SacTown, our fellow AZer JRHendy actually asked me if my background was snooker because he recognized my stance as being a snooker stance.

I laughed, being surprised at his good perception, and explained that, no, I had just adopted the snooker stance and have enjoyed the benefits that I perceive it has given me.

Jaden
 
I have to disagree. This is why so many people struggle. They arrive from an offset position because they've spent all their PSR focusing on the edges when they want to hit centre. Aligning your stance to the part of the object ball you want to hit will lessen the learning curve in my experience.

The only thing you hit is the CB. I also know from my experience the fundamentals of resting the cue in the fingers is overrated. The pads of the palm is where it's at. Look at Ralf, Johnny, Efren, Jose, Darren. Jus the best in the business.
 
The only thing you hit is the CB. I also know from my experience the fundamentals of resting the cue in the fingers is overrated. The pads of the palm is where it's at. Look at Ralf, Johnny, Efren, Jose, Darren. Jus the best in the business.

Efren's doesn't use the pads of his palm that much.
He lets the cue slide most of the time ( except soft shots ).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DYDMMw5TtE&feature=player_detailpage#t=6
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8DYDMMw5TtE#t=34
 
I have to disagree. This is why so many people struggle. They arrive from an offset position because they've spent all their PSR focusing on the edges when they want to hit centre. Aligning your stance to the part of the object ball you want to hit will lessen the learning curve in my experience.

CB is the only ball that is hit.
 
The only thing you hit is the CB. I also know from my experience the fundamentals of resting the cue in the fingers is overrated. The pads of the palm is where it's at. Look at Ralf, Johnny, Efren, Jose, Darren. Jus the best in the business.
When did grip come into the equation? I'm like you..pads of the palm with the V up against the cue snuggly. You have your opinions, I have mine. Think we should leave it there.
 
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