Gabe beat Efren at 1H at the DCC
- Thread starter raemondo
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Gabe Owen and Efren Reyes
In one of Gabe's interviews this week at the DCC, he said that he and Efren have played four times; and Efren beat him twice and he beat Efren twice; and now Gabe beat Efren again, so it is now Efren 2 Gabe 3.
As to your comment on "how Gabe would have done against last year's Efren or Efren from two years ago . . . Gabe beat Efren at the North American 8-Ball Open held by the IPT:
"Hohmann Hits Jackpot: $350,000 Prize at IPT Open and Spot on SportsCenter
by Mason King Jul 31, 2006, 9:44 AM EST
LAS VEGAS, Nev. ? In a dream finale for the IPT?s first regular season event, Thorsten Hohmann of Germany gutted out an 8-7 victory over Filipino Marlon Manalo on Sunday to pocket the $350,000 top prize at the North American 8-Ball Open.
. . .
American Gabe Owen was stuck in a must-win position from the third match of the day. He faced fearsome Filipinos Bustamante and Sambajon in his first two matches and lost both of them. He needed to win the next three matches to have a hope of advancing.
?I just thought, screw it ? just let it go. You only live once, just do it,? Owen said.
He proceeded to beat Reyes, 8-6; then Hill, 8-6; and in the longest match of the fifth set, Ivica Putnik of Croatia, 8-5. Sinking the last 8, he yelled and pumped his fist at jackhammer speed.
?My feet are killing me,? he said afterwards."
Just thought you might know your players before making comments like Gabe's win over Efren is a little tainted.
ShootingArts said:
In one of Gabe's interviews this week at the DCC, he said that he and Efren have played four times; and Efren beat him twice and he beat Efren twice; and now Gabe beat Efren again, so it is now Efren 2 Gabe 3.
As to your comment on "how Gabe would have done against last year's Efren or Efren from two years ago . . . Gabe beat Efren at the North American 8-Ball Open held by the IPT:
"Hohmann Hits Jackpot: $350,000 Prize at IPT Open and Spot on SportsCenter
by Mason King Jul 31, 2006, 9:44 AM EST
LAS VEGAS, Nev. ? In a dream finale for the IPT?s first regular season event, Thorsten Hohmann of Germany gutted out an 8-7 victory over Filipino Marlon Manalo on Sunday to pocket the $350,000 top prize at the North American 8-Ball Open.
. . .
American Gabe Owen was stuck in a must-win position from the third match of the day. He faced fearsome Filipinos Bustamante and Sambajon in his first two matches and lost both of them. He needed to win the next three matches to have a hope of advancing.
?I just thought, screw it ? just let it go. You only live once, just do it,? Owen said.
He proceeded to beat Reyes, 8-6; then Hill, 8-6; and in the longest match of the fifth set, Ivica Putnik of Croatia, 8-5. Sinking the last 8, he yelled and pumped his fist at jackhammer speed.
?My feet are killing me,? he said afterwards."
Just thought you might know your players before making comments like Gabe's win over Efren is a little tainted.
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TulsaRose said:
Gabe is a great player, everyone knows that. But 8ball and one pocket are completely different games and Efren has established that he is the king in one pocket... he spots the second best player in the world along with everyone else. He is a bit off his game right now from what others have said. But like I said earilier, why don't you ask Gabe if he wants to lock up some cash and get into a 10 ahead set playing Efren even in one pocket? Let us know what he says. We would all love to watch it and maybe the TAR guys will offer it as a pay per view event.
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Alex Kanapilly said:
I am not in the business of setting up games between players. However, if Efren is the "king of one pocket", which he very well may be; Gabe is also really good at one pocket -- it's his favorite game!
And Gabe has held his own in playing all of the world's best players, beating most of them at one time or another (and being beaten by them, too). Everyone has days when he is not at his best game, even Gabe -- but many times goes on to win; both players may not be at their best game, but one wins and one loses. So why use that as an excuse when someone like Efren loses? For whatever reason, they lost!
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TulsaRose said:I am not in the business of setting up games between players. However, if Efren is the "king of one pocket", which he very well may be; Gabe is also really good at one pocket -- it's his favorite game!
Well for the record, I never said it was a tainted win. I mean Efren played good enough to get to the final six players. So it's not like he played like a short stop out there, just maybe not to the level that we're used to seeing from him. With 400+ players and a short race to 3 format, that's quite an accomplishment (when you add it to his 5 previous wins in the event).
My only point is that (to my knowledge), every single player in the world, without exception, asks for a spot when gambling with Efren at one pocket. Until that changes and guys are willing to get in the box with him playing even, yes, he's "the king of one pocket".
Edit: I will say this, Gabe is one of the few players out there that have a chance at beating Efren in one pocket in a tournament format, where people are forced to play even. Like I said, everyone knows he's a great player. It's my favorite game too. Lol.
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Alex Kanapilly said:
Thanks for explaining your meaning more clearly, I just thought, even though you now say "Well for the record, I never said it was a tainted win." that "any win over Efren is a little tainted right now" meant that it was a "tainted win." My mistake.
by the way, I am a BIG, HUGE Efren fan. I think he is fantastic and the greatest "magician" of pool. However, there are others out there, like Gabe, that I think are fantastic, too.
You are mistaken.
Again, I never used the word tainted to describe Gabes win. Please review the thread. You are quoting someone else in your second set of quotes. It's OK, we all make mistakes.
This thread was specifically about one pocket, and while Gabes win in the DCC validates him as an excellent one pocket player, I think it's too soon to say that he's better than Efren at that particular game.
TulsaRose said:
Again, I never used the word tainted to describe Gabes win. Please review the thread. You are quoting someone else in your second set of quotes. It's OK, we all make mistakes.
This thread was specifically about one pocket, and while Gabes win in the DCC validates him as an excellent one pocket player, I think it's too soon to say that he's better than Efren at that particular game.
Alex Kanapilly said:
You know, you're right, I did get the wrong person. It was "shooting art" that said that! Sorry about that. I don't now how that happened!!!! And I hope you didn't think I was saying that Gabe is better (overall) than Efren at that particular game. I just wanted to express the fact that I took exception with someone saying that his win over Efren at the DCC was a tainted win. I think he won fair and square. Now, when they meet for one pocket in the future, who knows what may happen?????
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TulsaRose said:You know, you're right, I did get the wrong person. It was "shooting art" that said that! Sorry about that. I don't now how that happened!!!! And I hope you didn't think I was saying that Gabe is better (overall) than Efren at that particular game. I just wanted to express the fact that I took exception with someone saying that his win over Efren at the DCC was a tainted win. I think he won fair and square. Now, when they meet for one pocket in the future, who knows what may happen?????
No problem. You're right, the win was fair and square. There is no doubt in my mind about that.
Well, if my hero can't win the 1pocket tournament for the sixth straight time, I guess it's cool that the Oklahoma boy who beat him won the whole thing.
raemondo said:
I was watching this match at the DCC from a pretty good vantage point, and this is my take on it.
I think Efren got a little careless once he thought he had the match, or something like that.
He ran out the first game very nicely on Gabe's break. On his break and leading 1-0, he was moving great and started running out again, then missed a shot he should never miss. I think he just lost concentration. After this, Gabe ran 8 and out and tied it 1-1. From here Efren's game just went downhill and he didn't play well at all. Efren really had the match I think but got careless.
the420trooper said:
Let's get this straight right here and now, Gabe is from Wichita, Kansas, not Tulsa, Oklahoma. He grew up here (I have known him since he was 15), his Dad. Bob Owen, lives here, and is a partner, and the cuemaker for Shurtz Custom Cues here. I have known Bob over 30 years. Gabes mom, Kathy, lives about 40 miles from Wichita.
Gabe moved to Tulsa when he was at a point that he wanted to take his game to a higher level, which Tulsa afforded him, since many good players hung around there, including Jeremy Jones, who later became a good friend and mentor to Gabe. Tulsa was where he started to make a 'name' for himself in Pool, but he is from Wichita.
those rose colored glasses you're look'n through
The thread was about one pocket. Efren was playing one pocket at a level that it is doubtful the world has ever seen at the 2006 DCC. I haven't seen the 2007 DVD but he continued to dominate. He then played a reduced number of events in 2007 due to arthritis and just lost a brother that he was very close to right before the DCC. I have battled arthritis for many years myself. Only a moron would think that doesn't impact your pool game. I also lost a brother I was very close to years ago. Only a total idiot would think that doesn't have a major impact on focus and concentration.
I am going to make the assumption that you aren't a moron or total idiot and were simply unaware of the facts. Any win over Efren at the moment isn't quite the same as winning before arthritis has had a major impact on his game and when his head was really into the event. That goes for Gabe or anyone else.
I have beaten the very best in several areas of competition. On days that they competed well and I beat them anyway I was quite proud. On days that they were at less than their best the win was tainted and didn't mean much to me.
Anyone who wins an event at the DCC has every right to be very proud. The win over Efren at one pocket doesn't mean quite what it would have in years past however. Note that I said any win over Efren was a little tainted at the moment. I didn't say it wasn't impressive, but it doesn't mean what beating him at one pocket would normally mean even in the short races. Gabe is playing great but all reports are that Efren was playing far below his best level also. Perhaps Efren's arthritis will be better under control next year and he will have regained his focus and concentration and we can see a real match-up between the two in one pocket. Possibly Efren will never play at quite the elite level he once played at ever again. Time will tell.
Hu
The thread was about one pocket. Efren was playing one pocket at a level that it is doubtful the world has ever seen at the 2006 DCC. I haven't seen the 2007 DVD but he continued to dominate. He then played a reduced number of events in 2007 due to arthritis and just lost a brother that he was very close to right before the DCC. I have battled arthritis for many years myself. Only a moron would think that doesn't impact your pool game. I also lost a brother I was very close to years ago. Only a total idiot would think that doesn't have a major impact on focus and concentration.
I am going to make the assumption that you aren't a moron or total idiot and were simply unaware of the facts. Any win over Efren at the moment isn't quite the same as winning before arthritis has had a major impact on his game and when his head was really into the event. That goes for Gabe or anyone else.
I have beaten the very best in several areas of competition. On days that they competed well and I beat them anyway I was quite proud. On days that they were at less than their best the win was tainted and didn't mean much to me.
Anyone who wins an event at the DCC has every right to be very proud. The win over Efren at one pocket doesn't mean quite what it would have in years past however. Note that I said any win over Efren was a little tainted at the moment. I didn't say it wasn't impressive, but it doesn't mean what beating him at one pocket would normally mean even in the short races. Gabe is playing great but all reports are that Efren was playing far below his best level also. Perhaps Efren's arthritis will be better under control next year and he will have regained his focus and concentration and we can see a real match-up between the two in one pocket. Possibly Efren will never play at quite the elite level he once played at ever again. Time will tell.
Hu
TulsaRose said:
Snapshot9 said:
Gabe was born in Wichita but he lived in Tulsa while he was little and his grandmother babysat him while his mother, Kathy, worked in the Country Music business. Then they moved back to Wichita; then Gabe eventually moved back to Tulsa. So Tulsa has been a home to Gabe off and on during his life.
ShootingArts said:
Yes, and so you can make this analysis cover any great person that finally began to lose because of age, other conditions, etc. So according to this, anyone who has won against someone like Mike Sigel since he has gotten older and the "younger ones" have progressed at a level to beat him, all of the wins since that time against Mike Sigel is "tainted." If Mike could just overcome whatever makes him "never play at quite the elite level he once played at ever again," time will tell.
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Wow! I didn't really think Gabe's hometown mattered at all in the context of my post. But when Gabe pocketed the 9ball to win his US Open, he pointed his cue in the air, and screamed "Oklahoma, baby!!!!" Kind of lame I know, but it shows that home is wherever you say it is.Snapshot9 said:
I too was at the match. Efren easily ran 8 and out the first game. In the second game he got the first shot and seemed to be well on his way to another 8 and out. He did not "miss" , he scratched making a ball. It was an unneccesary scratch as the table was wide open and all he had to do was make the ball softly and have shape. But he rifled it in and the ball went in the drink. From there Gabe punished him with ball in hand running 8 and out. Now dont forget Gabe ran 60 in the one pocket ghost so he was definetly in stroke. That is so phenomal.
In the 3rd game Efren recovered and got to 7 with Gabe having 3. After scratching Efren played such an amateur shot. With 3 balls in a line on the spot after Gabes scratch Efren broke up the 3 balls and left Gabe with a straight in shot to the hole. Leaving Gabe with the perfect chance to run 5 and out. Efren didnt even have to play an "Efren" like safe. He could have played a bunt safety and still be 5 to 1 favorite.
After this his mind just left him and the pressure was on him. He could not recover.
The one thing I can say is unlike past Derby events Efren has not come down stairs to gamble at all. In 2005 Efren was giving, including Gabe, 9 to 7. He would gamble with everyone for light stakes for a couple of hours and go up to his room and rest for the next day. No Filipinos besides Alex came down to gamble at night. Not even Parica. This is why I thought Bustamante was so "tight" in his games. He was embarrasing in his loss to Larry Nevel when he got 3 ball in hands and shot his shot into the rail 3 times and couldnt when he shouldve gotten out. And he almost lost his 9 ball game to Mike DeSchaine (?) when he lost his cool. But his experience and talent carried him through.
None of the filipnos looked loose and focused but uptight and looked like they all were concentrating on that Master of the Table award. (I wonder how many ways that got split). Now Im speculating here but this is just MHO.
Now one thing I want to say about Efren. A year ago I had the devastating experience of losing a very close cousin of mind to Cancer she was in the prime of her life and a brilliant lawyer for the federal government. She suffered so much in a short span of time. Then I lost a family pet that I had for 21 years, the love of myt life. Then I lost my teacher and mentor for over 30 years. I went into a tailspin and just did not want to get out of the house. I guess it was a case of depression they now call it. To me I just had the blues. I did not post on the internet for a period of 6 months. I stopped coming to the pool hall. I just sat in front of my TV. Thank god for all those Accustats tape. My wife had to drive me to work and pick me up. I was so angry at the world I couldnt trust myself to smash my car into some one who cut me off or did some kind of infraction. I was spoiling for a fight and the people I worked with kept me arms length.
We dont know what Efren is going through right now. Im sure from the way he played he is going through some mental and emotional bouts. Its just not the same old Efren right now. I only hope that he comes out of it as I did. Friends and family are a great help. And in this case his fans can help to with trying to understand his position and leave him be. He must commit himself to taking action. Whatever it is and not stay in his shell. Commitment to projects and exercise did it for me with a healthy diet.
He is still the greatest player on this planet in my eyes and can and will regain that position.
In the 3rd game Efren recovered and got to 7 with Gabe having 3. After scratching Efren played such an amateur shot. With 3 balls in a line on the spot after Gabes scratch Efren broke up the 3 balls and left Gabe with a straight in shot to the hole. Leaving Gabe with the perfect chance to run 5 and out. Efren didnt even have to play an "Efren" like safe. He could have played a bunt safety and still be 5 to 1 favorite.
After this his mind just left him and the pressure was on him. He could not recover.
The one thing I can say is unlike past Derby events Efren has not come down stairs to gamble at all. In 2005 Efren was giving, including Gabe, 9 to 7. He would gamble with everyone for light stakes for a couple of hours and go up to his room and rest for the next day. No Filipinos besides Alex came down to gamble at night. Not even Parica. This is why I thought Bustamante was so "tight" in his games. He was embarrasing in his loss to Larry Nevel when he got 3 ball in hands and shot his shot into the rail 3 times and couldnt when he shouldve gotten out. And he almost lost his 9 ball game to Mike DeSchaine (?) when he lost his cool. But his experience and talent carried him through.
None of the filipnos looked loose and focused but uptight and looked like they all were concentrating on that Master of the Table award. (I wonder how many ways that got split). Now Im speculating here but this is just MHO.
Now one thing I want to say about Efren. A year ago I had the devastating experience of losing a very close cousin of mind to Cancer she was in the prime of her life and a brilliant lawyer for the federal government. She suffered so much in a short span of time. Then I lost a family pet that I had for 21 years, the love of myt life. Then I lost my teacher and mentor for over 30 years. I went into a tailspin and just did not want to get out of the house. I guess it was a case of depression they now call it. To me I just had the blues. I did not post on the internet for a period of 6 months. I stopped coming to the pool hall. I just sat in front of my TV. Thank god for all those Accustats tape. My wife had to drive me to work and pick me up. I was so angry at the world I couldnt trust myself to smash my car into some one who cut me off or did some kind of infraction. I was spoiling for a fight and the people I worked with kept me arms length.
We dont know what Efren is going through right now. Im sure from the way he played he is going through some mental and emotional bouts. Its just not the same old Efren right now. I only hope that he comes out of it as I did. Friends and family are a great help. And in this case his fans can help to with trying to understand his position and leave him be. He must commit himself to taking action. Whatever it is and not stay in his shell. Commitment to projects and exercise did it for me with a healthy diet.
He is still the greatest player on this planet in my eyes and can and will regain that position.
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Ah, so you do understand
Indeed I can make the same statement about anyone who isn't playing at or very near their peak due to age, health, or unusual factors. It just isn't the same as beating them when they are at their best.
Thanks for clarifying that.
Hu
Indeed I can make the same statement about anyone who isn't playing at or very near their peak due to age, health, or unusual factors. It just isn't the same as beating them when they are at their best.
Thanks for clarifying that.
Hu
TulsaRose said:
ShootingArts said:
Yes, but "at their best" is a very subjective judgment. I'm just saying that when we start judging that a win was "tainted" because someone won over someone else who wasn't playing "at their best", where is the dividing point of playing "at their best" and "not at their best." I know that Gabe won three matches in a row against tough competitors and his feet were killing him at the time. So he won, even though he wasn't playing "at his best." Others win even though not playing at their best. Others lose. But I guess because the players aren't as famous as Efren, nobody notices and makes comments about that. Were any other really good players at the DCC not playing "at their best" at the time, and did anyone else say that those who won against them, that their wins were "tainted." I just think your analysis is tainted (with prejudice for one player.)
I pray that Efren's problems and health improve and he does return to play in full strength and his fans can enjoy watching him compete. He is indeed a joy to watch.