gabon ebony

bdcues said:
Would agree with most every thing you said, except that the last Gaboon I bought was less than $80.00 b.f. so it is still there to find. And no, there is nothing wrong with the quality of the wood.
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I don't doubt that as there are always pockets of dealers who have stuff laying around and don't know the current market. When whomever you purchased that from goes to re-stock, they'll be in for a rude awakening. At $80 per BF for turning squares, we'd take every bit that they could supply and buy them a steak dinner.

It's just not realistic to expect to pay $80 per BF for turning squares these days. Sure there are always the exceptions if you are willing to wait to build a cue and you get lucky. The bottom-line: $150 (+-) for turning squares nowadays is the going market.

There is strong money buying up huge inventory of ebony right now at wholesale levels and stocking it for the long haul. It's better than the stock market and CD's. :grin:

If you think $150 per BF is a lot; wait 2 - 3 years and then let me know when it's $350 per BF.
 
I think everyone will find this very interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anCGvfsBoFY


I think we will see more color in our ebony, and far less that is jet black. In fact, nowadays, if you see jet black in a cue, you really need to take a good look at it. It's more common than most think to dye or stain other woods jet black, or even use phenolic or other materials for the black. In our cues, the ones that are black, we use maple and dye it black. Of course, we also don't call it ebony either. We openly state that it's black dye'd maple.


Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
 
Joe Barringer said:
I don't doubt that as there are always pockets of dealers who have stuff laying around and don't know the current market. When whomever you purchased that from goes to re-stock, they'll be in for a rude awakening. At $80 per BF for turning squares, we'd take every bit that they could supply and buy them a steak dinner.

It's just not realistic to expect to pay $80 per BF for turning squares these days. Sure there are always the exceptions if you are willing to wait to build a cue and you get lucky. The bottom-line: $150 (+-) for turning squares nowadays is the going market.

There is strong money buying up huge inventory of ebony right now at wholesale levels and stocking it for the long haul. It's better than the stock market and CD's. :grin:

If you think $150 per BF is a lot; wait 2 - 3 years and then let me know when it's $350 per BF.
Click to expand...

Joe, I understand that the base price of wood is rising and I also know that the person I got the wood from also understands this, and that he, probably much better than you, knows what the value of wood is. The lower price certainly is not the average, my comment was that there were bargains to be found yet, simple as that. You want to get in a pissing match about prices... save it for someone else.
 
RBC said:
I think everyone will find this very interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anCGvfsBoFY


I think we will see more color in our ebony, and far less that is jet black. In fact, nowadays, if you see jet black in a cue, you really need to take a good look at it. It's more common than most think to dye or stain other woods jet black, or even use phenolic or other materials for the black. In our cues, the ones that are black, we use maple and dye it black. Of course, we also don't call it ebony either. We openly state that it's black dye'd maple.


Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
Click to expand...

If they would have marketed all the Ebony, regardless of color, from the beginning it would certainly have helped. Years ago I sold 3 pieces of Birdseye Ebony to a cue maker... wish I had those back about now.
 
bdcues said:
Joe, I understand that the base price of wood is rising and I also know that the person I got the wood from also understands this, and that he, probably much better than you, knows what the value of wood is. The lower price certainly is not the average, my comment was that there were bargains to be found yet, simple as that. You want to get in a pissing match about prices... save it for someone else.
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Bob.. I'm extremely sorry that you thought this was a pissing match. We both made comments and shared our opinions. I can't imagine why you felt that way.

You stated that your "person" you got the wood from understands the price for wood is rising but I beg to differ with you that he doesn't know the price of ebony much better than us. All knowledgeable wood merchants can sell ebony for much more than $80 per BF for turning squares. That equates to $22 per 1.5 x 1.5 x 18" stick of ebony. No one is giving away ebony turning squares these days and especially at $22 when they can wholesale it for much more.

You know what, this isn't worth it. You're just wonderful and I was wrong. My apologies. I'll let you get back to building your cues and us getting back to dealing tens of thousands of sticks of ebony. Have a nice day.
 
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Joe Barringer said:
Bob.. I'm extremely sorry that you thought this was a pissing match. We both made comments and shared our opinions. I can't imagine why you felt that way.

You stated that your "person" you got the wood from understands the price for wood is rising but I beg to differ with you that he doesn't know the price of ebony much better than us. All knowledgeable wood merchants can sell ebony for much more than $80 per BF for turning squares. That equates to $22 per 1.5 x 1.5 x 18" stick of ebony. No one is giving away ebony turning squares these days and especially at $22 when they can wholesale it for much more.

You know what, this isn't worth it. You're just wonderful and I was wrong. My apologies. I'll let you get back to building your cues and us getting back to dealing tens of thousands of sticks of ebony. Have a nice day.
Click to expand...

Joe, you made a blanket statement that just was not true. The dealer, having been in the wood importation business for over 30 years has handled many times the wood than you have. His knowledge of wood, it's properties, uses, where it grows, who cuts it, and on and on and on is about the best in the wood business in the US. He knows what it is worth... to him. He also knows what it will cost to replace. Your continued insistence that no one did such a thing if they truly knew the value is just plain false and you are wrong. And as I stated and you seem to wish to ignore, yes, the price is getting very high and will go much higher. Hope you have a nice day also.
 
Joe Barringer said:
There is green pricing and dry pricing among wood dealers. Higher moisture content = lower price per board foot or per pound. Drier wood = higher pricing. You have a wholesale piece looking to get a retail price based on a cant. The only way to do that is cutting it up and seeing what you have. Then you'll need to piece it out one and two at a time.

I don't know any cue maker paying $80 per board foot for ebony turning squares in 2013 much less going forward this year. In fact, I don't know any cue maker who is getting ebony for $100 a board foot for turning squares. In fact, I don't know any cue makers getting turning squares for less than $150 per board foot.

Ebony is in huge demand and getting scarcer by the day. The quality is not what it use to be as standards for ebony is lower today than it was 10 years ago due to the shortage. It's not going to get any better.

I would still rather have the steaks. :grin:
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Joe,

I have 20 pieces of ebony squares that are waxed.

I just put them through my doweling machine in September and left the ends waxed.

I live in Chicago and the relative humidity is very low in the winter.

When it is 13% do you think it is safe to core the rounds or should I wait another season and do it next year.

Thanks in advance,

Rick
 
scdiveteam said:
Joe,

I have 20 pieces of ebony squares that are waxed.

I just put them through my doweling machine in September and left the ends waxed.

I live in Chicago and the relative humidity is very low in the winter.

When it is 13% do you think it is safe to core the rounds or should I wait another season and do it next year.

Thanks in advance,

Rick
Click to expand...


I think that if you let your shop get to 13% humidity on a regular basis then you have more to worry about than whether or not you should core your ebony.


Royce
 
bdcues said:
Joe, you made a blanket statement that just was not true. The dealer, having been in the wood importation business for over 30 years has handled many times the wood than you have. His knowledge of wood, it's properties, uses, where it grows, who cuts it, and on and on and on is about the best in the wood business in the US. He knows what it is worth... to him. He also knows what it will cost to replace. Your continued insistence that no one did such a thing if they truly knew the value is just plain false and you are wrong. And as I stated and you seem to wish to ignore, yes, the price is getting very high and will go much higher. Hope you have a nice day also.
Click to expand...

I made a "blanket statement? Correction: it wasn't a statement; it is fact.

I'm amazed. Someone knows more than me. :rolleyes:

Just because your dealer has been in business more than 30 years means nothing. I can show you cue makers who have been in business 30 years and still know nothing.

Since the dealer has been in the "wood importation business for over 30 years and that your good buddy knows "it's properties, uses, where it grows, who cuts it, and on and on" and that he is "about the best in the wood business in the US" means even less than nothing. I can teach a third grader where something grows and it's properties, etc, etc all in one day.

It takes years to develop contacts and a supply chain to be able to bring in the ebony at prices that are competitive and realistic within a marketplace. The fact that your good buddy sold ebony turning squares at $80 per BF proves he is either without a vast marketplace or that he just doesn't know the market or he likes you and gave you a deal. No knowledgeable wood dealer is going to sell something for $22 when he can wholesale it for more. That's a fact. I can wholesale all the ebony I want in stick form for $30 a stick and sell out in less than a week by making just a few phone calls. And I'd be giving it away at $30!

Let's approach this from another perspective. How many sticks did he have and how many did you purchase if you don't mind sharing that info with us.

Since your good buddy, the wood dealer has "been in the wood importation business for over 30 years" and has handled many times the wood than you have" then we can assume that he had thousands of ebony turning squares in stock as we have and that you bought every one of them at $22 a stick.

Anyone in the wood business who sold ebony turning squares for $22 a stick can't know all that much; period.
 
RBC said:
I think that if you let your shop get to 13% humidity on a regular basis then you have more to worry about than whether or not you should core your ebony.


Royce
Click to expand...

Royce,

I meant when the ebony is reading 13% after doweling it. Not that my shop is at 13%.

Rick
 
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Joe Barringer said:
I made a "blanket statement? Correction: it wasn't a statement; it is fact.

I'm amazed. Someone knows more than me. :rolleyes:

Just because your dealer has been in business more than 30 years means nothing. I can show you cue makers who have been in business 30 years and still know nothing.

Since the dealer has been in the "wood importation business for over 30 years and that your good buddy knows "it's properties, uses, where it grows, who cuts it, and on and on" and that he is "about the best in the wood business in the US" means even less than nothing. I can teach a third grader where something grows and it's properties, etc, etc all in one day.

It takes years to develop contacts and a supply chain to be able to bring in the ebony at prices that are competitive and realistic within a marketplace. The fact that your good buddy sold ebony turning squares at $80 per BF proves he is either without a vast marketplace or that he just doesn't know the market or he likes you and gave you a deal. We have a bingo in isle 6.No knowledgeable wood dealer is going to sell something for $22 when he can wholesale it for more. That's a fact. I can wholesale all the ebony I want in stick form for $30 a stick and sell out in less than a week by making just a few phone calls. And I'd be giving it away at $30!

Let's approach this from another perspective. How many sticks did he have and how many did you purchase if you don't mind sharing that info with us.

Since your good buddy, the wood dealer has "been in the wood importation business for over 30 years" and has handled many times the wood than you have" then we can assume that he had thousands of ebony turning squares in stock as we have and that you bought every one of them at $22 a stick.

Anyone in the wood business who sold ebony turning squares for $22 a stick can't know all that much; period.
Click to expand...

No, Joe. No one knows more than you. You know more about everyones business then they do and you know their level of knowledge far better than they understand it themselves. Do you have a physic hotline also? Keep up the good work.
 
scdiveteam said:
Joe,

I have 20 pieces of ebony squares that are waxed.

I just put them through my doweling machine in September and left the ends waxed.

I live in Chicago and the relative humidity is very low in the winter.

When it is 13% do you think it is safe to core the rounds or should I wait another season and do it next year.

Thanks in advance,

Rick
Click to expand...

Rick,

I can definitely give you some advice here having cored a few ebony sticks myself in both high humidity and extremely low humidity (as in Vegas).

Here's what I would do:
Plan on completing this in one session. Core them, glue them up with a coring dowel, (Gorilla glue works best in this application), rub the outside of the ebony with the coring glue, lay on wax paper and let dry for 2 days. Done.

Do not let the ebony sit around with a hole in it. Core and plug immediately. What I mean here is core it, glue it up in that order all within the same few minutes. So, you'll need to have all your coring dowels turned down to the right size so you can immediately plug the fronts. It's best to have a helper here so you can core and he can glue up or visa versa.

Once dry (2 days), pick them up, put a tapered pass on them, seal immediately after taking that pass. Plan on losing 20%. If you have 20 you'll end up with 16 good fronts and lose about 4 or 5 of them to checking.

I've cored as many as 250 in one week and would always lose some to checking. If you don't want or can't afford the loss, then wait till spring but odds are you will still lose a couple. I always have regardless of the humidity or moisture content. I look at it as the cost of doing business and average my cost over the whole bundle of goods. It brings up my cost per stick but that's how it is.

Let's say you have a knowledgeable good buddy in the wood business who has a vast abundance of knowledge. He also knows where and how the wood grows and gives you a deal on the ebony you purchased at let's pick a number, say $22 a stick; you have invested $440 for your 20 sticks. If you get 15 good fronts out of the 20, then your cost per front is now $29 per front.

Some wood just doesn't want to be a pool cue and nothing you do will change that.
 
bdcues said:
Joe, you made a blanket statement that just was not true. The dealer, having been in the wood importation business for over 30 years has handled many times the wood than you have. His knowledge of wood, it's properties, uses, where it grows, who cuts it, and on and on and on is about the best in the wood business in the US. He knows what it is worth... to him. He also knows what it will cost to replace. Your continued insistence that no one did such a thing if they truly knew the value is just plain false and you are wrong. And as I stated and you seem to wish to ignore, yes, the price is getting very high and will go much higher. Hope you have a nice day also.
Click to expand...

bdcues said:
No, Joe. No one knows more than you. You know more about everyones business then they do and you know their level of knowledge far better than they understand it themselves. Do you have a physic hotline also? Keep up the good work.
Click to expand...

Bob, uh, I seem to remember that you were the one who said your good buddy knows more than me and he handles more wood than me so your statement, "You know more about everyone's business" flies in the face of logic of what you just stated and pertains to yourself.

I'm done with this nonsense. Good luck with your $22 ebony. All 3 sticks.
 
Joe Barringer said:
Rick,

I can definitely give you some advice here having cored a few ebony sticks myself in both high humidity and extremely low humidity (as in Vegas).

Here's what I would do:
Plan on completing this in one session. Core them, glue them up with a coring dowel, (Gorilla glue works best in this application), rub the outside of the ebony with the coring glue, lay on wax paper and let dry for 2 days. Done.

Do not let the ebony sit around with a hole in it. Core and plug immediately. What I mean here is core it, glue it up in that order all within the same few minutes. So, you'll need to have all your coring dowels turned down to the right size so you can immediately plug the fronts. It's best to have a helper here so you can core and he can glue up or visa versa.

Once dry (2 days), pick them up, put a tapered pass on them, seal immediately after taking that pass. Plan on losing 20%. If you have 20 you'll end up with 16 good fronts and lose about 4 or 5 of them to checking.

I've cored as many as 250 in one week and would always lose some to checking. If you don't want or can't afford the loss, then wait till spring but odds are you will still lose a couple. I always have regardless of the humidity or moisture content. I look at it as the cost of doing business and average my cost over the whole bundle of goods. It brings up my cost per stick but that's how it is.

Let's say you have a knowledgeable good buddy in the wood business who has a vast abundance of knowledge. He also knows where and how the wood grows and gives you a deal on the ebony you purchased at let's pick a number, say $22 a stick; you have invested $440 for your 20 sticks. If you get 15 good fronts out of the 20, then your cost per front is now $29 per front.

Some wood just doesn't want to be a pool cue and nothing you do will change that.
Click to expand...

Thanks Joe!!!
 
RBC said:
I think everyone will find this very interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anCGvfsBoFY


I think we will see more color in our ebony, and far less that is jet black. In fact, nowadays, if you see jet black in a cue, you really need to take a good look at it. It's more common than most think to dye or stain other woods jet black, or even use phenolic or other materials for the black. In our cues, the ones that are black, we use maple and dye it black. Of course, we also don't call it ebony either. We openly state that it's black dye'd maple.


Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
Click to expand...

I use Jatoba.... about the same weight as ebony and a tight grain...... takes dye nice.

Kim
..
 
Thanks Royce for bring that video from Bob Taylor to light. I had seen it
awhile back as I deal in BRW for cues and guitars and have a keen interest
in sustainable/legally harvested wood. Like someone said earlier Gaboon Ebony and BRW is like money in the bank.

RBC said:
I think everyone will find this very interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anCGvfsBoFY


I think we will see more color in our ebony, and far less that is jet black. In fact, nowadays, if you see jet black in a cue, you really need to take a good look at it. It's more common than most think to dye or stain other woods jet black, or even use phenolic or other materials for the black. In our cues, the ones that are black, we use maple and dye it black. Of course, we also don't call it ebony either. We openly state that it's black dye'd maple.


Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
Click to expand...
 
With all of this free publicity keeping this thread at the top I wouldn't complain about your thread, I'd be cutting up the wood and getting it listed ASAP if you want to sell it! A band saw and 20 minutes.. DONE! You usually can't buy this kind of specticle ya know!
 
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