Gabriel Signature Pro
- Thread starter tim913
- Start date
Recently purchased three of the Gabriel Sig Pros used. Have one set up, very solid table, plays well. I was looking for parts and had the pleasure of working with Paul Frankel of Professor-Q-Ball http://professorqball.com/ He is the only distributor that I know of the Gabriel table. He deals mostly with 3C, but the best of my knowlege, he can still get the table.
Any idea what happened to their popularity? I use to see them advertised everywhere, BD, P&B...etc, and Ralph S. would be endorsing them in the mags. They looked top of the line to me, and then just seemed to fall off the planet.
Diamond may have one or two left, call them
Great table but the tables play funny to me but what do I know??? The surface is not the issue at all it is the rails and it could be the use of different rubber other then superspeed cushions???
Anyone place superspeed on one of these and get good results??? If its not the cushion material then the metal behind the rails may provide a harder and more stable backing then wood with a much softer material causing unique banking angles.
I know several pool rooms that had them and the money matches avoided them like the plague. The owner slowly liquidated them to gc and diamonds with wood.
The impregnated diamond wood options may cause the rails to bank funny to the players because the duromater reading on wood versus impregnated dynawood is dramatic!!!!
Diamond, kim steel + gabriel may have all gotten the angle wrong ?? Diamond fixed its rails!!!
Its a great table! I would try putting superspeed on it for my personal taste.
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Anyone place superspeed on one of these and get good results??? If its not the cushion material then the metal behind the rails may provide a harder and more stable backing then wood with a much softer material causing unique banking angles.
I know several pool rooms that had them and the money matches avoided them like the plague. The owner slowly liquidated them to gc and diamonds with wood.
The impregnated diamond wood options may cause the rails to bank funny to the players because the duromater reading on wood versus impregnated dynawood is dramatic!!!!
Diamond, kim steel + gabriel may have all gotten the angle wrong ?? Diamond fixed its rails!!!
Its a great table! I would try putting superspeed on it for my personal taste.
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
The Gabriel I just did had the Artemis k66 cushions. It was a sweet table:thumbup:
The sub-rails on the Gabriels are 1 5/8"ths thick, not a good combination for a K55 profile cushion. There is no steel in the rails, their sub-rails are made out of Poplar. The pockets kind of play funny because they use the thickest pocket facings I've ever seen used on a pocket, because they don't extend the rails to shrink in the pocket in size, and they play a little slow because the nose height is just a little high.
Glen
just a question here RKC ...why does the thickness of the sub-rail have anything to do with the profile of the cushion ....
not trying to be a bastard just asking ...
perfectpocketz
Banned
Glen ment to say height of the sub-rail not the thickness...the thickness of the sub-rail makes up the difference on the cushion size....that gives the 2 inch from formica to the nose of the cushion.
Mark Gregory
That's right Mark, but the thickness, from the slate surface to the top edge of the sub-rail also determines the back-end height of the beginning of the cushions. If you take K55 cushions and install them on a rail having a sub-rail thickness of 1 5/8"ths with a cushion nose height of 1 7/16"ths, the body of the cushion has a much different alignment behind the nose of the cushion than a sub-rail with a 1 11/16"ths thickness and a 1 7/16"ths nose height, therefore the play of both tables side by side will be different in the speed of the cushions and the banks, because the rails are not the same dimensions even though the cushions are the exact same. So, bottom line is that when rails are less than 1 11/16"ths thick, the nose height has to be compensated to make the adjustment needed in order to make the rails play right.
Glen
this is interesting .... so can you make a k-66 profile cushion play equal to a k-55 cushion based on sub-rail engineering? Or will they always play different?
Yes, you can but not if the sub-rails are 1 11/16"ths thick, they have to be brought down in thickness in order to get the K66's to play at their best, just as the K66's don't play at their best at a sub-rail thickness of 1 11/16"ths, the K55's don't play at their best on sub-rails less than 1 11/16"ths thick, they're two different kinds of cushions, and should be treated as such, with different spec's from the sub-rails.
Glen
Thank You Glen!!!
Its nice to know there is some merit to my observations regarding the table!!
Now I can put a technical basis for my discomfort on the Gabriel's!!!
KD
Don't miss-understand me, the Gabriel's do come with the Artemis K66 cushions on them when new, but play slow off the rails because of the nose height being a little high from the factory, that's one of the reasons I don't care to play on them, but at the sametime, they ARE a very good table....when you consider all the other types of 9ft's manufactured and sold.
Glen
k55 vs k66
Quote:
Originally Posted by matteroner
this is interesting .... so can you make a k-66 profile cushion play equal to a k-55 cushion based on sub-rail engineering? Or will they always play different?
Yes, you can but not if the sub-rails are 1 11/16"ths thick, they have to be brought down in thickness in order to get the K66's to play at their best, just as the K66's don't play at their best at a sub-rail thickness of 1 11/16"ths, the K55's don't play at their best on sub-rails less than 1 11/16"ths thick, they're two different kinds of cushions, and should be treated as such, with different spec's from the sub-rails.
Glen
will there be a difference in performance between k55 mounted on its proper sub-rail and k66 mounted on its proper sub-rail ? and if so would it be worth the 100$ difference in price of the rubber ? thanks, stan
Quote:
Originally Posted by matteroner
this is interesting .... so can you make a k-66 profile cushion play equal to a k-55 cushion based on sub-rail engineering? Or will they always play different?
Yes, you can but not if the sub-rails are 1 11/16"ths thick, they have to be brought down in thickness in order to get the K66's to play at their best, just as the K66's don't play at their best at a sub-rail thickness of 1 11/16"ths, the K55's don't play at their best on sub-rails less than 1 11/16"ths thick, they're two different kinds of cushions, and should be treated as such, with different spec's from the sub-rails.
Glen
will there be a difference in performance between k55 mounted on its proper sub-rail and k66 mounted on its proper sub-rail ? and if so would it be worth the 100$ difference in price of the rubber ? thanks, stan
I just rebuilt a Gandy 9ft, using the Artemis Pool K66 cushions. When I was done, it banked the cue ball 5 times the length of the table, and 9 banks around the table, the exact same as a rebuilt Gold Crown, or a new Diamond, using the Artemis Intercontinental K55 cushions, but they don't share the same spec's on the sub-rails, does that answer your question?
Glen
k55 vs k66
I just rebuilt a Gandy 9ft, using the Artemis Pool K66 cushions. When I was done, it banked the cue ball 5 times the length of the table, and 9 banks around the table, the exact same as a rebuilt Gold Crown, or a new Diamond, using the Artemis Intercontinental K55 cushions, but they don't share the same spec's on the sub-rails, does that answer your question?
Glen
superb performance! it certainly does answer my question, much thanks.
just out of curiosity, did you ever play on one of the sogard 9' pool tables from the 80's with the heated slates and granito cloth ?
I just rebuilt a Gandy 9ft, using the Artemis Pool K66 cushions. When I was done, it banked the cue ball 5 times the length of the table, and 9 banks around the table, the exact same as a rebuilt Gold Crown, or a new Diamond, using the Artemis Intercontinental K55 cushions, but they don't share the same spec's on the sub-rails, does that answer your question?
Glen
superb performance! it certainly does answer my question, much thanks.
just out of curiosity, did you ever play on one of the sogard 9' pool tables from the 80's with the heated slates and granito cloth ?