Gabriels 10 Ft Pool Table

sfleinen said:
Glen:

I would agree with you on the excessive use of MDF and scarcity of parts, that's something that would make working on these tables a real challenge. On the occasional furniture repair that friends and family ask me to get involved in, I swear like a sailor when I encounter MDF -- it's like working with dried oatmeal.

But the metric thing I'll have to disagree with you. The USA is backwards-ass as all hell in still using the imperial system, when the world has moved on to the [significantly better, more accurate, and easier to remember] metric system. We Americans have to be fleet-footed in being able to switch between the imperial and metric systems, because the rest of the world has already moved on and left us behind. We're going to have to 100% convert at some point, but not while we Americans think the world still revolves around us. :rolleyes:

-Sean
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I think most things sold in the US, and even designed in the US, are already on the metric system. The consumer company I work at switched from inches to mm 10 years ago. I think all the automotive companies probably switched 20 years ago or earlier. Any power tool you buy will have metric fasteners.

Its mostly the "public signs" that are still in the standard system. Road signs, distances, common language type stuff.
 
I've played on a Gabriel with new extended rails and it played nice. I personally would rate it higher than a GC because it plays very similar in speed but has a flat rail surface which I prefer. I like the playability of the Diamond the best, but the look the least. So there are pros and cons for all of them.
 
realkingcobra said:
No merit to your assumptions. Rock playing surfaces have no effect on tapping balls to stay in place, but cloth does. The finished surface of the slate, granite, or marble surface is never, ever...ever going to "wear out, or change" no matter how much it's played or, or for how many years the tables in use. Granite my be a cost choice over using slate from Brazil, but it certainly is not going to provide a better table.
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Thanks for the clarification.


The cushions are made by Kleber, same manufacturer as for their carom tables. (Gabriels site)
Kleber apparently owned by Michelin.

Further poking around indicates that Kleber is now ANVIS Industries, Sumitomo Riko Group - Japanese
http://www.anvisindustry.com/en/contenu/leisure
and the cushions brand name is KLEMATCH
http://www.cuestik.com/store/product.asp?ITEM_ID=6292
 
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Scaramouche said:
Thanks for the clarification.


The cushions are made by Kleber, same manufacturer as for their carom tables. (Gabriels site)
Kleber apparently owned by Michelin.

Further poking around indicates that Kleber is now ANVIS Industries, Sumitomo Riko Group - Japanese
http://www.anvisindustry.com/en/contenu/leisure
and the cushions brand name is KLEMATCH
http://www.cuestik.com/store/product.asp?ITEM_ID=6292
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And the KLEMATCH P37' billiard cushions being used on a pool table....are a MAJOR mistake on Gabriel ' s part.
 
realkingcobra said:
And the KLEMATCH P37' billiard cushions being used on a pool table....are a MAJOR mistake on Gabriel ' s part.
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Is that because they are very fast and made for billiards? Ive heard that they are the purest cushion on the market, and no drama about curved side up or flat side up like artemis.

Why is Klematch a mistake?
 
realkingcobra said:
And the KLEMATCH P37' billiard cushions being used on a pool table....are a MAJOR mistake on Gabriel ' s part.
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I apparently have misled in my posting 24.
I posted:

and the cushions brand name is KLEMATCH
http://www.cuestik.com/store/product.asp?ITEM_ID=6292

simply to show where I had encountered the brand name change that is not reflected in Gabriels' web site.
It was not to show the cushion used on the new pool table.

Gabriels pool table uses "Astro Pro rubbers in K66 profile"
http://www.gabrielsbilliards.com/gabrielsbilliards/pooltables/sentinel

I hope this clarifies things. :D
 
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Cardigan Kid said:
Is that because they are very fast and made for billiards? Ive heard that they are the purest cushion on the market, and no drama about curved side up or flat side up like artemis.

Why is Klematch a mistake?
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Because other than straight banks, you can't bank short/long or twist back a bank with cushions as dense as what's used on 3C tables.
 
sfleinen said:
Glen:
But the metric thing I'll have to disagree with you. The USA is backwards-ass as all hell in still using the imperial system, when the world has moved on to the [significantly better, more accurate, and easier to remember] metric system. We Americans have to be fleet-footed in being able to switch between the imperial and metric systems, because the rest of the world has already moved on and left us behind. We're going to have to 100% convert at some point, but not while we Americans think the world still revolves around us. :rolleyes:

-Sean
Click to expand...

I personally do not like metric fasteners. Some size bolts have 3 or even 4 different thread pitch measurements. I do not see why fractional sizes are any harder to use or remember than metric. The whole metric thing in the automotive world is a pain in the ass. Some of the American cars have bolts/nuts with metric heads and fractional threads. On American cars the common hex sizes are 10-13-15 & 18. On Asian cars common sizes are 10-12-14 & 17. On European the common sizes can be any combo of the previous. Certain thread diameter & pitch combination metric bolts can be very difficult to find, it can be much easier to cross thread a metric fastener due to this. For the most part fractional sizes are 2 common pitches, NF & NS, or fine thread and course thread. I am not sure that we actually use Imperial sizes, I think for fasteners that would be Whitworth, wouldn't it??
 
Does the bed of the table really matter? For example: If you had a solid base frame, and then put Italian slate, Brazilian slate, smooth concrete(ignore that concrete can develop problems down the road), granite, marble, or even solid thick plate steel. If you then covered it with 860 cloth, and added Diamond rails and rubber would anybody be able to notice a difference? If so, why?
 
tim913 said:
Does the bed of the table really matter? For example: If you had a solid base frame, and then put Italian slate, Brazilian slate, smooth concrete(ignore that concrete can develop problems down the road), granite, marble, or even solid thick plate steel. If you then covered it with 860 cloth, and added Diamond rails and rubber would anybody be able to notice a difference? If so, why?
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Mass dampens vibrations. All other things being equal, a heavier "slate" or equivalent should allow the ball to roll further. Now, there is a point of diminishing returns. I'd guesstimate for a 9' table that point is about 1" thick.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Mass dampens vibrations. All other things being equal, a heavier "slate" or equivalent should allow the ball to roll further. Now, there is a point of diminishing returns. I'd guesstimate for a 9' table that point is about 1" thick.
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Why would slate above 1" be a diminishing factor? I'm just talking in terms of playability, not shipping costs or extra labor to carry slate.
 
tim913 said:
Why would slate above 1" be a diminishing factor? I'm just talking in terms of playability, not shipping costs or extra labor to carry slate.
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What I mean is there comes a point of diminishing returns. For example a 1" slate may play 25% "better" than a 0.5" slate. But a 2" slate may only play 5% better than a 1" slate.

These are just hypothetical numbers to demonstrate the point.
 
iusedtoberich said:
What I mean is there comes a point of diminishing returns. For example a 1" slate may play 25% "better" than a 0.5" slate. But a 2" slate may only play 5% better than a 1" slate.

These are just hypothetical numbers to demonstrate the point.
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I understand....thanks!
 
iusedtoberich said:
What I mean is there comes a point of diminishing returns. For example a 1" slate may play 25% "better" than a 0.5" slate. But a 2" slate may only play 5% better than a 1" slate.

These are just hypothetical numbers to demonstrate the point.
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The only noticeable difference between 1" and 2" slate is the ability to jump the cue ball as the thicker the slate the more it'll bounce the cue ball. Speaking as a table mechanic, there's a lot more weight to have to deal with, such as a table set up on a second floor over a garage. A Diamond 9ft Professional weighs about 1,300 lbs, while a Gabriel Signature Pro 9ft weighs about 2,500 lbs. Second, it's much easier to level a 1" thick slate as you can flex the slate in order to fine tune level it with wedges, whereas a 2" thick slate is almost impossible to flex in order to manipulate the slate to level.
 
realkingcobra said:
Because other than straight banks, you can't bank short/long or twist back a bank with cushions as dense as what's used on 3C tables.
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But simonis just made partnership with klematch cushions, I took this as they are marketing as their cloth and rubber to be the standard for pool. Looks like artemis might be in trouble. Simonis is a main player.
 
Cardigan Kid said:
But simonis just made partnership with klematch cushions, I took this as they are marketing as their cloth and rubber to be the standard for pool. Looks like artemis might be in trouble. Simonis is a main player.
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Extremely high density cushions are a must for 3C, but are a major fault if installed on pool tables. Because they are so dense, they bank the same angles shot hard or soft, it don't matter. When you can't dimple the nose of the cushions by stretching the rail cloth as tight as you can, then stapling it in place, the cushions will offer no help when a ball needs to be banked short in order to pocket the ball. All the trick shots to making balls in a one pocket game will no longer work, because there won't be anymore cheating the banks in order to pocket a ball. And if I'm not mistaken, shots like these come up all the time in pool, especially when playing one pocket....but hey, what do I know, playing pool might get better, if a lot of bank shots wouldn't work anymore.:thumbup:
 
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