gambling now in my eyes...

softshot said:
if your refusing games just so you don't steal some chumps money... you are a Pool Player.

If you are begging the best player for a spot.... you are a gambling addict. if such a thing exists... an addiction requires a substance chemically needed by the body.... If you are one of the many "addicts" in this country.. gambling, pottery, cheese wizz ..... Americans are addicted to everything under the sun according to day time TV... I don't see it as an addiction I see it as mental weakness.... and everyone knows... mental weakness will kill you in pool...

so by that rationale the big money gamblers who can't help themselves...don't have the mental fortitude to play top quality pool in the first place...

and those with the required mental toughness.. don't gamble at pool... or better don't NEED to gamble at pool.

I still stand by my statement that 40 of the 50 best players in the world... You have never heard of... there are pro caliber players in every corner of the globe... just because a microscopically small subset of players happens to be the most vocal does not mean that what they preach is the truth...

Great pool has nothing whatsoever to do with a dollar sign $$
Click to expand...
Johnny Archer
Earl Strickland
Corey Deuel
Shane Van Boening
Francisco Bustamante
Alex Pagulayan
Efren Reyes
Cliff Joyner
Lee Van Corteza
Ronnie Alcano

All have one thing in common. Action players. I could name 20 more.

Now you make your list of people who never match up and we will have a poll on who has the stronger list.

Just because you want something to be a particular way does not make it so. If we have never heard of 40 of the best 50 players in the world then how on earth could you possibly know if they are the best? Like my main man Ric Flair used to say " You got to walk that aisle WOOOOOOO!!!!!" and "To be the man you got to beat the man". Well if these unknowns dont compete against the best in the world they can never be the best in the world. Being the best in your own mind dont really count.

softshot said:
and those with the required mental toughness.. don't gamble at pool
Click to expand...

Have you ever actually met a top player? Ever seen one in action in a big set or tournament because the things you are saying now sound like you are some kid in his basement with this vision of how things should be in your own little pool world.

If people dont like to gamble don't. Not terribly difficult. If you find yourself betting the rent money you are sick and should get help. I learned the cardinal rules of pool gambling when I was 15.

1. Never bet what you cant afford to lose.
2. Always post.
3. Act like a gentleman whether you win or lose.

If you dont gamble and have no respect for those that do why would you care if they called you a nit or anything else? In my experience the ones who pull the nit card first are the ones who will crawfish first if they are in danger of actually being in an even game. It is just part of it.
 
Call me a fool but i gave up gambling.Now i focus only on winning tournaments.I even turn down the drunks from the bar who want to give me thier money to play.I do have a few good friends who will play me serious races to 7 for nothing and we play strong focused pool much of the time.Other then that i will do drills and i rail-bird any big money matches i can.A funny consiquence to giving up the gambling is the "money" players who i once couldnt beat even with a spot now rarely can beat me in a tourney.
 
jasonlaus said:
LEAGUE PLAY It's the same with the rest of the U.S. do as little as possible for as much as possible. why should they practice? whats the reward? Pride should be taken out of the dictionary. Now people are proud of how little they do, these are sad times. Now before everybody goes crazy this does not apply to everyone but the number is growing every day. I could go on forever but will only p%ss myself & others off. gotta go
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Very interesting take on the issue, Jason.

I'm still confused as to WHY league players are prone to losing pride and effort, though. What is it about league, specifically, that contributes to this?

I've played leagues for 30 years, gambled for about 10 of those years, and I never noticed that league play contributed to less gambling or worse play. In fact, with the instructors, like Scott Lee, recently making the rounds, it seems that league play has jumped a significant notch around here. Perhaps better league players have reduced the number of suckers?

If league players really refuse to improve because of handicap concerns, then the handicap system had better be changed. I hang with BCA and Valley leaguers and this is never a problem that I've seen. I mean never. Apa? Well, that's a horse of a different color.

Jeff Livingston
 
JCIN said:
Johnny Archer
Earl Strickland
Corey Deuel
Shane Van Boening
Francisco Bustamante
Alex Pagulayan
Efren Reyes
Cliff Joyner
Lee Van Corteza
Ronnie Alcano

All have one thing in common. Action players. I could name 20 more.

Now you make your list of people who never match up and we will have a poll on who has the stronger list.

Just because you want something to be a particular way does not make it so. If we have never heard of 40 of the best 50 players in the world then how on earth could you possibly know if they are the best? Like my main man Ric Flair used to say " You got to walk that aisle WOOOOOOO!!!!!" and "To be the man you got to beat the man". Well if these unknowns dont compete against the best in the world they can never be the best in the world. Being the best in your own mind dont really count.



Have you ever actually met a top player? Ever seen one in action in a big set or tournament because the things you are saying now sound like you are some kid in his basement with this vision of how things should be in your own little pool world.

If people dont like to gamble don't. Not terribly difficult. If you find yourself betting the rent money you are sick and should get help. I learned the cardinal rules of pool gambling when I was 15.

1. Never bet what you cant afford to lose.
2. Always post.
3. Act like a gentleman whether you win or lose.

If you dont gamble and have no respect for those that do why would you care if they called you a nit or anything else? In my experience the ones who pull the nit card first are the ones who will crawfish first if they are in danger of actually being in an even game. It is just part of it.
Click to expand...

yes those are all great players who gamble... and enter and sometimes win pro tournaments...I agree that they are great players...but I don't think they are great for the same reason that you think they are great....

my definition of the best is the guy who keeps his cueball on a string putting it EXACTLY where he wants it time after time.. he sees and plays the carom... and the billiard...and his balls fall where he says they will...and can move the balls to the spot on the table that he wants them to occupy.

I know many players in several different states that meet my criteria.

there is a place in pool for big money action always has been always will be...

but... if pool wants big name sponsors with big time dollars...it has to lose the shady gambling image...

the image hurts more than the truth... the truth is many fantastic players bet what they can afford and most games go off without a hitch... the perception is that the gamblers are fighting amongst themselves and if your not tough enough to shoot your way out of the poolroom you will die or barely escape with your winnings..

We want a family friendly game. thats about spinning balls on a table and the interactions occurring thereof ... that will bring the sponsors and their money.. a family feindly target market...

the action belongs where its always belonged... quietly in the back room..

there is a nitch for TAR you have found it and I wish you the best. honestly..

Just because good players gamble doesn't mean that you have to gamble too be good...
 
softshot said:
yes those are all great players who gamble... and enter and sometimes win pro tournaments...I agree that they are great players...but I don't think they are great for the same reason that you think they are great....

my definition of the best is the guy who keeps his cueball on a string putting it EXACTLY where he wants it time after time.. he sees and plays the carom... and the billiard...and his balls fall where he says they will...and can move the balls to the spot on the table that he wants them to occupy.

I know many players in several different states that meet my criteria.

there is a place in pool for big money action always has been always will be...

but... if pool wants big name sponsors with big time dollars...it has to lose the shady gambling image...

the image hurts more than the truth... the truth is many fantastic players bet what they can afford and most games go off without a hitch... the perception is that the gamblers are fighting amongst themselves and if your not tough enough to shoot your way out of the poolroom you will die or barely escape with your winnings..

We want a family friendly game. thats about spinning balls on a table and the interactions occurring thereof ... that will bring the sponsors and their money.. a family feindly target market...

the action belongs where its always belonged... quietly in the back room..

there is a nitch for TAR you have found it and I wish you the best. honestly..

Just because good players gamble doesn't mean that you have to gamble too be good...
Click to expand...

I think what you mention as the perception of gamblers is your perception and of course it is share by some, but, hardly the majority of people. I have been on AZ now for about 3 years and just look how the perception of the players and action players has changed.

Not too long ago, you could barely go one day here on the forums without someone mentioning the word dump or some kind of violence. THings have changed quite a bit around here and for the better. The reason is with the internet and JCIN people are getting a more realistic perception of the modern day pool world and the violence.

In honesty, there are very few players whether we admitt it or not who gamble their own money. Few have any money to speak of and fewer have money who depend on tournament winnings. The vast majority of gambling is done by the backers. They keep things alive and keep things jumping.

You suggest the gambling belongs in the back room and will never have big time sponsors until it does and to this I totaly disagree. The reason is that nobody on this planet has figured out as of yet how to make tournament play exciting to the public and isn't likely to in the near future. The reason is that nobody is under pressure as in a Super Bowl, game 7 of a World Series, or the shooting of a 3 pointer with seconds left in the NBA. In the back room everybody sees it and percieves it as big pressure when supposedly gambling for a substantial amount of "their own money". By perception, this is what true cahmpions are made of. It is all about how they "Fade the Heat" of this situation.

Exploiting these situations is exactly what the WSOP has done and it's the only reason for it's sucess. Pool has not yet captured this, but it is getting closer.
 
tap, tap, tap! My sentiments EXACTLY! I'll add two more 'rules' that I was taught about gambling...play for ANYTHING, even $.25; and let your opponent raise the bet (if they want to)! :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

JCIN said:
If people dont like to gamble don't. Not terribly difficult. If you find yourself betting the rent money you are sick and should get help. I learned the cardinal rules of pool gambling when I was 15.

1. Never bet what you cant afford to lose.
2. Always post.
3. Act like a gentleman whether you win or lose.
Click to expand...
 
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