Gandy? National? Cervantes? Helmstetter? Hart?

Chopdoc

Chopdoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
EDIT: Jayman nailed this down below. It is an Adam R/A-10 Le Mans. Thank you Jayman!



So I found a little treasure. Those who frequent Goodwill online probably saw it. While everybody else was going nuts over a beautiful Palmer, I saw blurry pics of another cue and took a chance on it. It turns out to be a gem. I was exactly right about the type and age of the cue, but obviously got lucky on the condition. It's no Palmer of course, but nonetheless a gem and in great condition. Still has an original sticker and the shaft is darn near virginal. Ferrule is pristine and I am betting it is the original tip.

I figure mid to late sixties, maybe up to early seventies(Bingo! 1970). National, Gandy, Cervantes, Helmstetter (Bingo! Adam!), Hart type cue, maybe distributed through A.E. Schmidt.

My guess at the moment is National or Gandy because of the sticker. The sticker says "Grand Prix"(Turns out it's the wrong sticker. It's a Le Mans). It is very hard to read so I had to use alternative light sources to bring it out (a la CSI, LOL!) Having a model name would fit more with National or Gandy I would think, or perhaps something sold through A.E. Schmidt. Which of course means one of the named gentlemen likely built it anyway. Any thoughts on the identity or age? Any catalog references to this "Grand Prix" model?

I am being very careful getting the bumper out as it has hardened. I don't want to break it. Suggestions to loosen it up are welcomed. Then we can look at the weight bolt!

I have not yet weighed or measured it. It does have a pointed stainless pin, and what appears to be an aluminum helicoil type insert. Points and veneers are nicely done. A little finish missing here and there especially on the metal rings. It appears to be "shelf wear" more than anything as there are no dings or nicks associated.

Oh, and this thing has an insanely high ring count shaft! Beautiful shaft wood.

So, here it is:

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Got the best picture I could of the sticker. It is better in person under a UV light.

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The cue does need a re-wrap. The wrap is loose and taped. I'll put some thought into that. May try to match the original. Not sure.

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Gandy all day. Aluminum shaft insert gives it away. That's my .02 anyway.
 
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Atleast two of the cues pictured here have matching ringwork. Between that and the shaft insert being aluminum I'm confidently saying Gandy.

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Thanks! :thumbup:


That's what I was thinking. And I have looked at that catalog page.

I am wondering and hoping that we can find a specific reference to the "Grand Prix" and get an exact match.



Early Helmstetters, pre-Adam, used that aluminum insert too. I am wondering...

Where is Jayman? He may know it. He knows everything. LOL!


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Editing here, Adam Ra/10 Le Mans With the wrong label. ( It is not a Grande Prix (RA/-9 )
 
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Chopdoc said:
Whoa!

Really?

Then what's up with the "Grand Prix" sticker?

It absolutely looks exactly like the R/A-10, but the sticker has another name on it.





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Edited my mistake to R/A-9 Grade Prix :) But it's the wrong sticker. It's still an R/A-10
 
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jayman said:
Editing here, Adam Ra/10 Le Mans With the wrong label. ( It is not a Grande Prix (RA/-9 )
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LOL!

OK, you changed it.


But now the name matches, but the cue does not!

It looks nothing like the R/A-9 but exactly like the R/A-10.

So...as you say it simply has the wrong sticker on it. COOL!


But, do you have any idea when these were produced?

By the way, after looking at that bumper again I started chasing it down as an Adam. I do have Adams with that bumper. But you beat me too it. Of course. LOL! :thumbup:

How worried should I be about pulling that bumper out and breaking it? Just avoid it altogether to avoid the potential heartache I am thinking....

I bet you have one or two in your stash but I don't want to come begging to find out.


On a positive note I seem to be building a little Adam collection. :thumbup:


EDIT: Blue Book Link
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They were made in 1970. Don't worry about the bumper, It actually did not come with one that was added later. If it does break I will send you an N.O.S. one just like it at no charge.
 
jayman said:
They were made in 1970. Don't worry about the bumper, It actually did not come with one that was added later. If it does break I will send you an N.O.S. one just like it at no charge.
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You rock! Thanks so much for the input on that and the offer.

1970? At least I had the age about right when I bought it from fuzzy pictures. LOL! That's a pretty darned early Adam! Yay! Score! :thumbup:

The wrap is loose and taped.

I just hunted and can't find a match online for the nylon. Closest I came was copper with black specs. Substantially darker. This is almost gold with black specs.

I'll ask the usual cue repair guys but if I come up empty I'll probably go with walnut/black spec linen.

Linen would be nicer anyway. Heck, maybe I'll just go with the classic green spec linen. It would look nice.
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Surgery and documentation.

I did a wrapectomy. Once the wrap was off it really did look very gold with black spec. It was a little darkened from age, removing it revealed the true color.

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:thumbup:


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Nice find congrats! I saw that cue on the goodwill site but bought some other stuff. I would think your cue repair person could use the same wrap on the cue if none of it is missing. Enjoy and thanks again for the info in the other thread.
 
Thanks. Wrap can't be saved sadly. It was broken in three places. It had been tucked and taped several times. Not really salvageable.


So...I'll consider options if I can't match it. Feel free to express opinions. :smile:






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Chopdoc said:
Thanks. Wrap can't be saved sadly. It was broken in three places. It had been tucked and taped several times. Not really salvageable.


So...I'll consider options if I can't match it. Feel free to express opinions. :smile:
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For a classic looking old cue like that, I'd go with white linen with green speck, but that's just my preference. Usually linen is a bit thicker than nylon, so the wrap channel would need a bit of work, but I'm sure you're thought of that.

All the best,
WW
 
WildWing said:
For a classic looking old cue like that, I'd go with white linen with green speck, but that's just my preference. Usually linen is a bit thicker than nylon, so the wrap channel would need a bit of work, but I'm sure you're thought of that.

All the best,
WW
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It would look classic, I agree. It was one of my first thoughts. The cue will never be original again so I don't think I have too much of a problem with cutting a deeper wrap channel.

I do favor originality when possible though.



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