Gender test for any first place over $199......

carguy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Women are not going to idly stand by & allow some scumbag dress up in attempt to rob them. They will, however, show tolerance and acceptance to a legit transgender. You don't have to understand it, just accept that it is what it is and acknowledge that you're dealing with a fellow human being. IMO, it's a bit chauvinistic to assume women cannot handle these situations on their own, and even more so to feel the need to gender check a player. Take a person born of one gender, living as another, attempting to participate in life as normally as possible, and humiliate them for being different. Cause irreparable emotional trauma for $200. All over a pool game?

Point being, women players do not need a knight in shining armor. Let women manage women's pool. Observe if you like, but otherwise stay out of it. Respectfully so.

This is an outstanding post. I agree 100%. I'm glad others besides myself get this.

Robin Snyder
 

easy-e

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Do you not see how demeaning & insulting that sounds? Who exactly "dumps women into another category because they are women"? Just the way you said that makes it sound as if men are somehow in charge. Women have their own teams, leagues, and tournaments and they control it. It's up to them, not men, to decide what happens in their realm. It is not for you, me, or any other man in pool or on this forum to dictate gender checks in women's pool. Feeling the superiority and authority to suggest it is precisely the definition of male chauvinism.

I stand by my initial sentiment. If women are ok with transgender players participating in all women events, then it's fine. If they wish to challenge a player, then the fight is their own. Equality is absolute.

I question your comprehension of the post you quoted.
 

PoppaSaun

Banned
With subsequent talk and recent talk about gender roles in various tourneys I honestly think we need SOME KIND OF STANDARD. Otherwise, me and others might just go put a dress on and cash in.Valid question / subject - what say you?

Meh, if this thought even enters your head, you are lacking balls.
 

qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
I question your comprehension of the post you quoted.

Rest assured my reading comprehension is sound.

The notion of a skill based competition is solid, and I find zero issue with it. However, it neglects to address the core purpose of an all female competition. Well, it did but I do not agree with the poster on his reasoning. Contrarily, I am of the belief that women have all female competition for the sole purpose of NOT having to deal with men and the baggage they often bring to the table. Many women compete in co-ed events, in perfect harmony with the men. It's great. They also compete in all female events because they enjoy it, and that is none of my business. It's not up to me to dictate how they do it. It's their thing, and they can do what they want. It doesn't take a genius to realize they want all female events because there are times they don't want men involved, for whatever reasons they have. I respect that. If a man feels like a woman & the other women accept him as a woman, who am I to say he/she shouldn't be able to compete in the women's event? It's that simple. There's no reason the thread should have ever turned to degrading an entire gender, generalizing that they are inferior to the other gender. That's what the poster I quoted did.
 

easy-e

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Rest assured my reading comprehension is sound.

The notion of a skill based competition is solid, and I find zero issue with it. However, it neglects to address the core purpose of an all female competition. Well, it did but I do not agree with the poster on his reasoning. Contrarily, I am of the belief that women have all female competition for the sole purpose of NOT having to deal with men and the baggage they often bring to the table. Many women compete in co-ed events, in perfect harmony with the men. It's great. They also compete in all female events because they enjoy it, and that is none of my business. It's not up to me to dictate how they do it. It's their thing, and they can do what they want. It doesn't take a genius to realize they want all female events because there are times they don't want men involved, for whatever reasons they have. I respect that. If a man feels like a woman & the other women accept him as a woman, who am I to say he/she shouldn't be able to compete in the women's event? It's that simple. There's no reason the thread should have ever turned to degrading an entire gender, generalizing that they are inferior to the other gender. That's what the poster I quoted did.

If you say so. But the fact remains that women NEED their own tour because they are not good enough (yet) to compete with the men.
 

qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
If you say so. But the fact remains that women NEED their own tour because they are not good enough (yet) to compete with the men.

That may be your fact, but it's not mine. The only way to know that would be to compare and contrast the ratio of men:women who play pool with the ratio of amateur : pro-level for each gender. I don't know any statistics, but I would guess that there are grossly more men who play than women. However, I would guess the ratio of amateur woman to pro-level women will closely mirror the ratio of amateur men to pro-level men. It's an apples to oranges comparison with no fruitful(pun intended) conclusion.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Do you not see how demeaning & insulting that sounds? Who exactly "dumps women into another category because they are women"? Just the way you said that makes it sound as if men are somehow in charge. Women have their own teams, leagues, and tournaments and they control it. It's up to them, not men, to decide what happens in their realm. It is not for you, me, or any other man in pool or on this forum to dictate gender checks in women's pool. Feeling the superiority and authority to suggest it is precisely the definition of male chauvinism.

I stand by my initial sentiment. If women are ok with transgender players participating in all women events, then it's fine. If they wish to challenge a player, then the fight is their own. Equality is absolute.

The people that dump women into another category are the people that have women's only events. As I said, these days no one forces women into playing in separate divisions because they are not men, it just ends up that way because of a skill gap. If you have pool events based on skill not on gender, all that goes away. Events give lower entry fees to women or give them games on the wire just because they are women. That is silly, do it by skill not gender. How may events have we seen that state "women get 2 games on the wire" or "women entry fee $40, rest are $50"? They don't say "C players get 2 games on the wire", it's "women" do. Once you equalize things by what matters in pool, namely how well you play not if you wear a bra and have fancy nails, then the whole "is it a woman or a man?" thing becomes moot.
 
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easy-e

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That may be your fact, but it's not mine. The only way to know that would be to compare and contrast the ratio of men:women who play pool with the ratio of amateur : pro-level for each gender. I don't know any statistics, but I would guess that there are grossly more men who play than women. However, I would guess the ratio of amateur woman to pro-level women will closely mirror the ratio of amateur men to pro-level men. It's an apples to oranges comparison with no fruitful(pun intended) conclusion.

Sure, that may be all true. But the pro women are not as good at pool as the pro men. Hence the reason for separate divisions.
 

Celophanewrap

Call me Grace
Silver Member
With subsequent talk and recent talk about gender roles in various tourneys I honestly think we need SOME KIND OF STANDARD. Otherwise, me and others might just go put a dress on and cash in.Valid question / subject - what say you?

Cash in?
What is it that makes you think a dress would help?
Besides academics, is there an event that you can think of where your anatomical make up would make less of a difference?
 

Player

I'm your huckleberry
Silver Member
With subsequent talk and recent talk about gender roles in various tourneys I honestly think we need SOME KIND OF STANDARD. Otherwise, me and others might just go put a dress on and cash in.Valid question / subject - what say you?

Whatever trips your trigger dude but I aint wearin no dress! :eek:
 

easy-e

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Cash in?
What is it that makes you think a dress would help?
Besides academics, is there an event that you can think of where your anatomical make up would make less of a difference?

If Bergman threw on a cute little summer dress, chose a different identity, and grew out his hair, he'd win every female tournament there is.
 

slide13

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Women are not going to idly stand by & allow some scumbag dress up in attempt to rob them. They will, however, show tolerance and acceptance to a legit transgender. You don't have to understand it, just accept that it is what it is and acknowledge that you're dealing with a fellow human being. IMO, it's a bit chauvinistic to assume women cannot handle these situations on their own, and even more so to feel the need to gender check a player. Take a person born of one gender, living as another, attempting to participate in life as normally as possible, and humiliate them for being different. Cause irreparable emotional trauma for $200. All over a pool game?

Point being, women players do not need a knight in shining armor. Let women manage women's pool. Observe if you like, but otherwise stay out of it. Respectfully so.



This^!!! Great post and really gets it all right. Thank you!

Now I want one of your cues even more, haha!
 

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
There are 2 players in our area who allegedly do not play pool in the same group as which they were born. It is usually but not every time that one of these 2 win the tournaments they are entered in. From my perspective they seem to have an advantage but maybe they also practice 20 hours per day. I use the term allegedly because I was not at their birth places at the time of birth.
 

Ralph Kramden

BOOM!.. ZOOM!.. MOON!
Silver Member
I'm all for sensitivity with someone who is dealing with this. But I disagree that they should be allowed to compete as a female if they were born male. I don't see it as humiliating them. I feel that it should be our place to accept their choices and show some compassion, but it should also be their place to understand that they are the outlier, and there are certain things they will not fit into.

When born the 'Doc' says

If ya' got one.... "It's a boy"
Ain't got one..... "It's a girl"

.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sure, that may be all true. But the pro women are not as good at pool as the pro men. Hence the reason for separate divisions.

Those separate divisions should be, in a real equal world that people seem to be striving for, be based on skill level not gender. If society wants equal treatment for all be the norm, then it should be done. If women and tournament promoters want to divide things by gender, that is not equal, they are themselves forcing themselves into a different category. If you are an A, you play with the As, if you are a B you play with the B player, if you are a Pro level player, you play with the Pro players. If you happen to be the best woman in the country and you are an A, you play in the A tournament, not a Pro tournament that is for women only. Then you could have been born a goat or a car and it won't matter what you are now since you are playing in your sill category.
 

Celophanewrap

Call me Grace
Silver Member
If Bergman threw on a cute little summer dress, chose a different identity, and grew out his hair, he'd win every female tournament there is.

At pool, maybe, but he doesn't have the legs for it.
Sure men are physically stronger, but this isn't something that requires weight lifting.
Women are typically smarter, that would seem to me to be more important than
physical strength playing pool. Still, I can't figure out why, at the pro level, the men seem
to be generally better than the women or why skills seem to begin to diminish when you
reach the age of about 40 or 45.

I think if you remove the gender component in a short time the women would catch up
and play would be pretty even.

Personally, I think a gender test for any prize won in any amount would lead to some
very embarrassing moments for some of us, particularly the men that might support
something like this. Revealing yourself as the guy that finished 4th in a ladies tournament,
or the guy that finished behind 2 or 3 (or more) women in a men's tournament.

Now, I get beat all the time so it wouldn't bother me but some guys might
just give up the game.
 

KissedOut

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Women are not going to idly stand by & allow some scumbag dress up in attempt to rob them. They will, however, show tolerance and acceptance to a legit transgender. You don't have to understand it, just accept that it is what it is and acknowledge that you're dealing with a fellow human being. IMO, it's a bit chauvinistic to assume women cannot handle these situations on their own, and even more so to feel the need to gender check a player. Take a person born of one gender, living as another, attempting to participate in life as normally as possible, and humiliate them for being different. Cause irreparable emotional trauma for $200. All over a pool game?

Point being, women players do not need a knight in shining armor. Let women manage women's pool. Observe if you like, but otherwise stay out of it. Respectfully so.

And who decides which are 'legit' and which are not?
 

OLD NO 9

AzB Gold Member
Silver Member

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RichSchultz

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Women are not going to idly stand by & allow some scumbag dress up in attempt to rob them. They will, however, show tolerance and acceptance to a legit transgender. You don't have to understand it, just accept that it is what it is and acknowledge that you're dealing with a fellow human being. IMO, it's a bit chauvinistic to assume women cannot handle these situations on their own, and even more so to feel the need to gender check a player. Take a person born of one gender, living as another, attempting to participate in life as normally as possible, and humiliate them for being different. Cause irreparable emotional trauma for $200. All over a pool game?

Point being, women players do not need a knight in shining armor. Let women manage women's pool. Observe if you like, but otherwise stay out of it. Respectfully so.
If possible, I just became a bigger fan of you, Eric. Love your cues and your philosophy!
 
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