It's funny because it's true - believe me I know. The hardest thing about pool is not sharking myself.
pj
chgo
Geomtry or Physics, what's more important?
- Thread starter Pangit
- Start date
pj
chgo
Without geometry there is no physics, although several theoretical physicists are trying to unify general relativity with quantum physics by saying that there is no such thing as geometry.
So when considering physics as it relates to pool, you are using geometry.
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So when considering physics as it relates to pool, you are using geometry.
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If you're in space lead boots won't do you any good unless the floor is magnetic!
Physics is the most precise science and an understanding of it does nothing for your pool game. Geometric principles are useful in estimating angles but because of the margin of error for all of the aspects of a shot's mathematics it is really feel and repetition that are the most important. The most important thing is your brain's ability to recall previous situations and to be able to replicate a sequence of events to allow you to produce the desired results.
In other words, if you didn't know what an angle was but hit thousands of balls your brain is going to know what to do.
In other words, if you didn't know what an angle was but hit thousands of balls your brain is going to know what to do.
Zeeder, lead is attracted by magnetism?? :grin:
Years ago, I frequently encountered a pretty decent player that was a college mathematics teacher. He would do some pretty weird stuff to his cue or his attire... things like wrapping a bit of bailing wire around the butt of the cue with a strand of wire dangling there, or affixing something to his clothing that just did NOT belong there. Those things were often a positive contribution to the outcome of his matches, but it had nothing to do with his profession.
Figure that strategy out using physics! :smile:
Years ago, I frequently encountered a pretty decent player that was a college mathematics teacher. He would do some pretty weird stuff to his cue or his attire... things like wrapping a bit of bailing wire around the butt of the cue with a strand of wire dangling there, or affixing something to his clothing that just did NOT belong there. Those things were often a positive contribution to the outcome of his matches, but it had nothing to do with his profession.
Figure that strategy out using physics! :smile:
Oops, I saw lead and thought iron...lol. In that case, lead won't do anything for you except for maybe poison you if you try to eat it!
Yeah, you'd have to look into the neurophysics of sharking techniques...lol.
Physics for sure.
"pool is all about math and angles and geometry"... that's what I hear guys at the bar tell their girlfriends when they want to sound deep.
But knowing about throw (which is 100% physics), how speed and spin affect the ball's path off a rail... those things can take your position play to a new level. I understand that if I pound a ball a hair above center rather than giving it full top, I can make the cue ball stun sideways a bit before diving forward, allowing me to cheat scratches and get more travel out of the CB when I fell too straight on a ball. Understanding physics means I know now when two balls are frozen, I throw them in by hitting the opposite side that I'd hit for a very thin cut. I now understand that if I want maximum spin off a rail on thin cut, I want soft middle left or right, not firm low-left or high-right. Without understanding physics I'd still wonder why my dead combos rattled out, or why I undercut softly rolled shots, or why all my banks come up short.
"pool is all about math and angles and geometry"... that's what I hear guys at the bar tell their girlfriends when they want to sound deep.
But knowing about throw (which is 100% physics), how speed and spin affect the ball's path off a rail... those things can take your position play to a new level. I understand that if I pound a ball a hair above center rather than giving it full top, I can make the cue ball stun sideways a bit before diving forward, allowing me to cheat scratches and get more travel out of the CB when I fell too straight on a ball. Understanding physics means I know now when two balls are frozen, I throw them in by hitting the opposite side that I'd hit for a very thin cut. I now understand that if I want maximum spin off a rail on thin cut, I want soft middle left or right, not firm low-left or high-right. Without understanding physics I'd still wonder why my dead combos rattled out, or why I undercut softly rolled shots, or why all my banks come up short.
The absolute worse thing you can do is get all scientific when trying to play pool at a high level. Physics and geometry in pool needs to be learned in practice and should come naturally. Ask Beta if he can calculate the tangant line or accurately determine the congruent coordinates of a four rail kick with a calculator. He will scratch his head and laugh. But get him to show you on the talbe he will hit it perfect and it will come naturally.
Funny, I was just having a debate with a friend the other day about this... he insists that geometry is pointless and only physics matters in the end.
Geometry is totally full of points
and lines
and planes
No, I didnt coin that phrase lol, although I dont know that I've ever heard anyone use it in relation to pool...
Domination rituals did and do derive from inherent human desire/instinct. I just meant to point out that we also use games to portray these rituals.
Geometry is like a map.
You need it for precise directions from point A to point B...
But Physics is knowing how to actually drive the car from point A to point B....
Geometry can be "learned" thru experience, without the use of any actual numbers or a pencil and paper, just like you can "find your way" across town eventually without a map or the names of streets. ( But an easier way does exist)
Likewise, you can "learn" physics without ever having to pick up a book, just like you can learn to drive a car without taking a drivers training course. But again, an easier way does exist.
Banks
Banned
Or did it? :grin-devilish:
Jonathan01
Registered
Hello, I am fairly new to pool, but I understand it pretty good. I think yall have many views on this already, but here is my view on it.
I say it is all physics. I say that the physics may use some parts of geometry, but the math is still physics. Ex. Angle in = angle out, yes it is makes a triangle, which would be geometry, but I say the angles are more important, which would be physics right? Spin of any kind, friction, deflection, etc, is physics for sure.
Correct me if I am wrong though.
Thanks,
Jonathan
I say it is all physics. I say that the physics may use some parts of geometry, but the math is still physics. Ex. Angle in = angle out, yes it is makes a triangle, which would be geometry, but I say the angles are more important, which would be physics right? Spin of any kind, friction, deflection, etc, is physics for sure.
Correct me if I am wrong though.
Thanks,
Jonathan
What he said. When you consider the physics rule:angle of deflection = angle of impact, Geometry no longer plays a primary role, it is a sub-category of physics. You then have to add in your other variables like cue ball/object ball spin, etc.
At that point, geometry is merely a tool to aid in calculating angle of deflection, and by itself will be completely inadequate and innacurate.
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Jonathan01
Registered
Yea, this is a good summary of what it was trying to say. It is really all physics.
If you want to read some mathematicians and physicists argue about that statement good luck. The thread has posts that span over four years and there are many others like it. Math vs. Physics is a very hot topic in the Math and Physics world. :
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=189420
The Geometry, I assume, the OP is referring to is Euclidian Geometry, which is what you learn in grade school. It cannot be applied to the real world without physics. Even though you may have the shot angle figured out, without applying the physics of the object interactions, the angle is meaningless. We as pool players compensate for the physics by practice and "feel"/experience of shots since we can never hit the ball dead-center with zero spin on a zero friction surface 100% of the time. That being said, we all use geometry as a base for a shot, but the physics of the shot truly determines if we will make it or not, IMO.
My earlier post was just a bait to see if there were any physicists on the forum. I strongly believe that Physics is a subset of Math, but that's just because I have a Math degree probably.
One of the posters in the thread I linked to said this :
I think that is how I feel about the Aiming threads (sorry
). An aiming system is like Math, it is useful to formalize the way to aim if you have not already aimed before. It is fundamental that you should know what aiming is before you can attempt to aim. If you already have a sense, or intuition, about how to aim then an aiming system is no more than a way to better understand what you already know how to do. Some aiming systems can "detract(s) from developing physical intuition" and can prove to be a distraction. But some systems, with the help of "intuitive description, diagram, manipulation rules, worked out examples, and other 'imprecise' tools " can actually help anyone "develop physical intuition".I see the Aiming battle on this forum to be very similar to the Math vs Physics battles elsewhere. No one can win because they both overlap.
Back on topic though, I think Geometry is a useful tool in pool as a good starting point, but without Physics it is not applicable in the physical world.
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Jonathan01
Registered
(Ex. Angle in = angle out)
This is true very little of the time.
I am sure that the physics of the rail compressing affects it, and of course left or right english affects it. But, is't angle in = angle out basics behind it?
Thanks
When executing a bank shot, geometry is what i see in my pre shot routine. And physics is what happens when i execute my shot. A combination of these two is what i call a feel of shot ( geometry + physics), the reason I put geometry first, cuz a player is not going to execute a shot if he/she don't see it in the first place. After seeing a shot how a player hits it i.e. physics part, collision of balls, speed etc. comes to play.
For me both geo and phy plays an important part in pool.
For me both geo and phy plays an important part in pool.