George Breedlove's side of the story - it's different.

"not as some sort of excuse, not as some sort of statement about relative skill levels. It's just a proposition."
Whether he means it or not, the proposition revolves around an excuse and relative skills.

These roadies want the nuts and a large wager (and seem QUITE adept at finding George at the end of 12 hour days ), this is just one way for them to get the large wager they profess to want. I hope that is clear.
Thats the world of pool these days. George's thinks he has the nuts with his proposal or he wouldnt make it. I dont think he would put his rep on the line without the nuts.

George is happy with his game as is;
Then why make another proposition. Just say..."Im sorry, I cant win. I work too much and my game cant match up with your under my condidtions."


I have heard George say on several occasions, that Efren is the greatest player he's ever seen; and that he feels privileged to have been able to compete with and against him. They are friends, and I think their matching up days are behind them (I'm pretty sure Efren isn't taking this proposition).
Pretty easy proposition when you know he, or other "top" pros, cant or wont take the proposition because they dont have the time.

I am also fairly certain that this proposition was not made with impressing you in mind.
Well, I hope not...im just a teacher who cant even string two racks together...i teach too much to play good pool. LOL
 
Not sure why some people are acting morally offended about this. Who cares? If you don't like the prop, don't take it. Its just an offer on the table, to be accepted or not.

If people keep badgering him to play high stakes pool, and he doesn't feel like it because he just spent 12 hours doing back-breaking labor, then putting up this proposition seems like a very logical and reasonable thing to do.

If others feel that any professional could make the same proposition based on their job, go for it! There is room enough for more than one proposition like this, why not? Just please be sure to post about it here so we can be entertained. :) Again, no one has to accept that offer, just like any other gambling terms. If you don't like the terms, just find someone else to gamble with or make a counter offer.

What's the point in bad-mouthing him for it? It doesn't seem that he's being deceptive at all, so why hate on him? It might be a good fit for the right person, so don't try to guilt him into withdrawing it. If/when it happens, I want to hear about it. Thanks.

And by the way, until someone takes him up on this and wins, or until someone makes a counter-offer based on some other manual labor job, GB does have the bragging rights to being the best pool playin hard workin manual labor man, even if having that honor wasn't his intention. Just my opinion. :p
 
Williebetmore said:
KG,
Well stated. You get it. Titanic Thompson would be on this like a fly on potato salad; it's a lot of cash. I do think though, that the mere existence of the IPT makes the proposition much less likely to occur.
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Betmore dude, I think the IPT may in fact make this proposition more of a reality than the opposite.... for the very same reason you think it's less likely to occur. Money. there might be an IPT member that places high enough at one of the tournaments to have the kind of cash to cover his bet with Mr. Breedlove.

At any rate, just because smashmouth is from Canada doesn't mean he can talk for Cliff Thorburn. Just the same as I don't have the right.
 
Cuebacca said:
Not sure why some people are acting morally offended about this. Who cares? If you don't like the prop, don't take it. Its just an offer on the table, to be accepted or not. p
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Cue-B,
Many thanks; you get it also.
 
bomber said:
Whether he means it or not, the proposition revolves around an excuse and relative skills.

Then why make another proposition. Just say..."Im sorry, I cant win. I work too much and my game cant match up with your under my condidtions."


Pretty easy proposition when you know he, or other "top" pros, cant or wont take the proposition because they dont have the time.

Well, I hope not...im just a teacher who cant even string two racks together...i teach too much to play good pool. LOL
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B-man,
I should probably elaborate, since I think you still have the wrong idea about high level 9-ball. In one of these gambling sessions, EITHER player can win if they are both top level players (yes, even if one is Efren) - it's the nature of the game. I for one believe strongly that it would be WAY less of a crap shoot if someone had to work for 30 days first. George has gambled and will gamble big with top players without such restrictions (many here know this, you evidently do not). I don't know ANY other players offering to play for 50K.

This proposition is NOT the only way he will gamble. It was just his response to a "high-roller" who was QUITE capable of accepting the bet. This guy wanted to know how he could get a large sum of George's money; and George told him. It's open to anyone (including Efren if he wanted; but at that age seems unlikely) - George does not HAVE to win such a prop; but he likes his chances.

I do not know many other ways to say it (there are only a couple not getting it); but this prop is NOT some excuse or estimate of skill - it's JUST one way you could get some of George's money if you want to try it (I'm sure there are many others if you are a skilled player). It's JUST something he was asked about by a journalist and he confirmed the offer is open to everyone. If he wasn't asked at the IPT, you would never have heard of it; unless someone "in-the-know" had taken him up on it.

If you still don't get it; it's because of my limited communication skills. Look me up at DCC, I'll buy you a brew, and we can discuss it.

P.S. - NEVER demean teaching; it's a hell of a lot more noble profession than most.
 
I just want to make sure I have heard it right:

Someone on this forum is saying that Cliff Thornburn will play George Breedlove for any money, and even give George a spot, on any game of George's choosing?

Is this an official invitation? I mean, is this Cliff's own word? Is Cliff awared of this? Did Cliff say he would even offer George a spot?

If it was, I would think George may waive the working for a month requirement and just go play Cliff for all that Cliff can afford.

Just my opinion...

Richard
 
nipponbilliards said:
I just want to make sure I have heard it right:

Someone on this forum is saying that Cliff Thornburn will play George Breedlove for any money, and even give George a spot, on any game of George's choosing?

Is this an official invitation? I mean, is this Cliff's own word? Is Cliff awared of this? Did Cliff say he would even offer George a spot?

If it was, I would think George may waive the working for a month requirement and just go play Cliff for all that Cliff can afford.

Just my opinion...

Richard
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I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that picked up on that.
 
Williebetmore said:
I happened to run into George Breedlove yesterday, who was VERY distressed about the recent AZB threads in the IPT forum regarding his statement/proposition at the recent IPT event (I was not the one that brought this to his attention - Stevie L is my buddy:) ). He states emphatically that what was posted on AZB is NOT what happened; and he is very upset that people would think such things about him. He asked me to post this to help set the record straight. At the end, I'll list the link to the thread, and the actual proposition which is and always has been in effect.

It was implied on this forum that he was using his "day job" as an excuse for losing a match; and he states that this was NOT the case. He stated that the only time he mentioned his proposition was BEFORE his match with Ralf Souquet (NOT after a loss), and ONLY in direct response to a question from a journalist about his proposition (which has been in effect for quite some time BEFORE the IPT tournament).

The reason he was asked the question was because of a match earlier this year in Indy between George and a champion player passing through town. This champ is a full-time world renowned player - plays all day, every day, has sponsorship. The champ passing through was looking for action, George was called, came from work, and agreed to a 10-ahead set for 1K. George wins the first set in about 45 minutes. The perturbed champ insists on a change of venue, they change pool halls, and start another set. After about 6 hours it is still very even (though the champ several times approached the hill). The champ is very disgruntled, slamming racks and balls around, insisting on a raising of the stakes in a somewhat insulting manner. As many know, George gambles his OWN money, and has a lot of heart - to question otherwise is somewhat impolite; but on the other hand, he is working full-time, he's tired, and the bet has already been agreed upon. It seemed the pro was trying to take advantage of the situation.

At this point, George re-iterated his standard proposition (turned down by this particular pro) - IT IS A REAL PROPOSITION OPEN TO ANY PLAYER; if you want to make some real money, then he will wager 50K of his own. You work for him for 30 days, then play the set for 50K. The work is tough, very physical, probably a minimum of 75 hours a week; not much sleep. If you have the month to spare and the 50K, it can happen no matter who the player is. It is obvious that he does not think that the top champions can maintain a level of play to exceed his with this type of schedule. Anyone who disagree's just needs to put up the funds, and come to Indy for a month - it will be fun. He was NOT using this proposition as an excuse for losing any match. He believes his skills are fine even with very little play and no practice; and he WELCOMES any challengers to this proposition.

In any case, George's response in Vegas was to a journalist asking about the proposition; and he told her the terms of it. No excuses were being made; just the thought of that is very abhorrent to him.

Anyway, he just wanted people to know that he was not an excuse maker.

P.S. - To Stevie L. he says he would never take your proposition; he does not believe he could make 3 freaking balls in a row if he had to work at a desk for a week.

P.P.S. - Here is a link to the thread with which he was upset (not mad, just distressed that people would think that about him):

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=37177&highlight=breedlove
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The champion that you are talking about is Niels Feijen and he wasn't passing through town. He was in town with me and George asked if he was ever in the States he would like to play him. He was coming in and had a weekend free so I called George and asked I he wanted me to bring Niels over. I told George we would play for free if he wanted or he could bet, whatever Geroge wanted to do since I'm good friends with him and Jeanette. George said he didn't want to play for fun and asked us to play for $1000 to make it worth something. We said no problem. George did win the first set at his house but I don't remember it being in 45min. The next day we asked to go to go to a pool room so we could try and bet some more money with someone other than George and Jeanette since the last thing I would want to do is make a score off of them. George agreed but, the pool room we went to no one wanted to bet any more. If it seemed as Niels was getting upset, that was only with himself. He is an very intense player and sometimes gets hot with himself if he is making dumb mistakes. I certainly don't remember it going down anything like how you discribed it, unless the champion your talking about is someone other than Niels.
 
nipponbilliards said:
I just want to make sure I have heard it right:

Someone on this forum is saying that Cliff Thornburn will play George Breedlove for any money, and even give George a spot, on any game of George's choosing?

Is this an official invitation? I mean, is this Cliff's own word? Is Cliff awared of this? Did Cliff say he would even offer George a spot?

If it was, I would think George may waive the working for a month requirement and just go play Cliff for all that Cliff can afford.

Just my opinion...

Richard
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I'm with you here Richard, if they were playing snooker it would make alot more sense, but he stated ANY game playing even. No disrespect to Thorburn who plays strong pool for a converted snooker player in his mid 50's but I certainly wouldn't put him on the same level as Breedlove.
 
Al-fahl Amir said:
... unless the champion your talking about is someone other than Niels.
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Al,
I couldn't say; but I think we would all be interested in whether you've heard of the proposition; and if you think it would occur if someone showed up with 50K and 30 days to spend.

P.S. - You are so right; I certainly have never heard of George "playing for fun".
 
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Harvywallbanger said:
Would any of you guys consider Breedlove in the top 100 in the world? If so where would you place him?
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Harv,
It's pretty tough to tell, he has competed in only a handful of tournaments this century. He seems to usually be playing the last day at DCC, won an IPT qualifier with a monstrous cast of characters, had a top 5 or so finish at the BCA a few years ago. Not the most fearsome resume'. The names of the road players he's matched up with the past few years is pretty impressive (playing on his own dime). Jury is out.

I think the IPT tournaments will be a good test of any players merit. With that format, some players will be eliminated despite stellar play; but nobody is advancing without stellar play. Ask again in a year; or ask Al-fahl (his opinion is more informed than mine).
 
I don't know I think if a top pro takes him up on this offer he will lose....granted the Player X has to be as good as George or better from the start...

The Key is anyone can work in Construction or related field could just Dog it for a month and then play for 50 K...Without breaking their back... Just because you work with him does'nt say you need to do heavy lifting

I do know what his point is.....Many pool players work hard for a living and still find the time to play pool they might not be a good as George Brredlove...

Lazy get a job pool players would never take him up on the offer just on principal of having to work....

This is akin to taking a non lifter to the gym forcing him to lift heavy weights and then playing him in pool later...he just figures a Pro player would drop after a month of hard work....and Hard Work is all in the eye of the beerholder...

I'm of the philosophy that hard work whether on the job or in the Gym will actually improve your game...
 
Williebetmore said:
I am unaware of your credentials, but I can assure you there are many who do not share your views.
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I asked him (smash mouth) what his pool background was and he ignored me. I was sincere in the fact that I wasn't trying to make fun of him, I just simply wanted to know because I figured it would help make sense of some of the things he says. Now I'm past being nice about it and I'm just going to put it out there...he's a banger that doesn't know too much about pool, the gambling side of pool, nor does he know any real players/pros. I might not be 100% correct but I'd bet that I'm really close. Normally this wouldn't be a big deal but it becomes a big deal when someone with as little knowledge and as big of a mouth as his, starts posting on a billiards forum as if he knows something and/or someone. :rolleyes:


Williebetmore said:
People who are not interested in proposition bets; or who think they do not exist should probably be spending their quality time on other threads than this.

I think we should probably not even go into golf-ball throwing or quarter-tossing.
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TAP! TAP! TAP! If a pool game can't be decided upon, the right guys will bet on anything just to bet and have something to do other than sit around looking at each other. People toss quarters closest to the spot, shoot pool with broom sticks, bridges, you name it, if it can be stroked they'll use it to shoot with. I've even heard (just heard, never saw it) of a guy betting that he could throw a key, dart style into the lock. Freeze a ball at the middle diamond on the end rail, place the cue ball on top of the bottom rail at the middle diamond... one handed a guy will cut the ball on the end rail into one of the corners... etc, etc, etc... Some people really have no clue to what crazy things these guys will do and bet on. :p
 
Timberly said:
I asked him (smash mouth) what his pool background was and he ignored me. I was sincere in the fact that I wasn't trying to make fun of him, I just simply wanted to know because I figured it would help make sense of some of the things he says. Now I'm past being nice about it and I'm just going to put it out there...he's a banger that doesn't know too much about pool, the gambling side of pool, nor does he know any real players/pros. I might not be 100% correct but I'd bet that I'm really close. Normally this wouldn't be a big deal but it becomes a big deal when someone with as little knowledge and as big of a mouth as his, starts posting on a billiards forum as if he knows something and/or someone. :rolleyes:
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he posted this in another thread, I think it says alot

smashmouth said:
...

I believe my theories and opinions on the game are as sound as anyone's, the playing portion however leaves much to be desired.
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Timberly, I must have missed your question about my pool background.

PM me and I'll tell you anything you want.
 
nipponbilliards,

reread my post, I said Cliff would play him for any amount, anytime, any game, EVEN odds!

Yes I know him, Cliff has a standing offer, the aforementioned conditions against anyone in the world except a handfull of top, top, pros, he does not consider Breedlove one of them, and Cliff plays for serious dough.
 
Thanky you Al-fahl Amir,

Seems like there is always twos sides and that is why I asked the name be posted, more propoganda from Breedlove
 
Harvywallbanger said:
Would any of you guys consider Breedlove in the top 100 in the world? If so where would you place him?
Click to expand...


He's definitely in the top 100 on the IPT. And probably in the world as well. Heart alone moves him up one full speed.
 
smashmouth said:
nipponbilliards,

reread my post, I said Cliff would play him for any amount, anytime, any game, EVEN odds!

Yes I know him, Cliff has a standing offer, the aforementioned conditions against anyone in the world except a handfull of top, top, pros, he does not consider Breedlove one of them, and Cliff plays for serious dough.
Click to expand...

All due respect to Cliff, but if he wants to play some 9-Ball with George, I will match any bet George makes. PERIOD!!!
 
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