Get a Grip

Mr. Wiggles said:
I played an exhibition match against Mike Sigel many years ago and he commented that I had a tea cup grip. I think it's similar to the grip you describe. Daylight between the cue and my palm. Makes the wrist sort of wiggly, but I believe this is where much action is achieved. I know I tighten my grip but also know I never go into a full grip as in swinging a hammer. To me the full grip freezes the wrist in place. I remember asking Mr. Sigel, oh is that bad and he said no, lots of good players use it! Good luck!
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I totally agree!
 
And so it shall be known, that upon the 14th day of July, the grip wars began on AZBilliards.
 
Mr. Wiggles said:
I played an exhibition match against Mike Sigel many years ago and he commented that I had a tea cup grip. I think it's similar to the grip you describe. Daylight between the cue and my palm.
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Sounds like you might grip a little farther down your fingers than I do. There's no visible space between the cue and the top of my "V", but there's no upward pressure there either. I want to grip the cue as far up my finger/thumb as possible (without pressing against the top of the "V") so it feels a little stronger for harder shots.

pj
chgo
 
Tom In Cincy said:
Since last Feb. I have been using a much lighter grip (without pinching). I rest the cue butt on my index and middle finger and then apply my thumb to the side to keep the cue from rolling off my fingers. This is a gravity only resting on my fingers. The palm of my hand does not touch the cue.
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That would be ideal in theory for me too, but I can't escape the feeling that I need to grip the cue in some fashion.

Too tight of a grip, for me, was, IMO, making me miss-hit the cue ball with a fractional left or right contact causing me to miss or get unwanted results.
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Yep, same feeling I've always had.

I do believe that the lighter grip is improving my ability to hit the cue ball into that small area that makes the pockets look bigger. Also a slight pause on the final stroke and looking at the OB last.
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My grip is also lighter, and as usual working on one thing has made me hyper aware of lots of other related things. Makes it hard to tell what's causing what improvement - nice problem to have!

pj
chgo
 
Thanks for the thread, PJ. It made me go back and reassess what I was doing, grip-wise.

Turns out, I had gotten away from my version of what you're describing. I'm gonna keep using this version for a while and see if it helps. Felt pretty good about it last night.
 
Mr. Wiggles said:
I played an exhibition match against Mike Sigel many years ago and he commented that I had a tea cup grip. I think it's similar to the grip you describe. Daylight between the cue and my palm. Makes the wrist sort of wiggly, but I believe this is where much action is achieved. I know I tighten my grip but also know I never go into a full grip as in swinging a hammer. To me the full grip freezes the wrist in place. I remember asking Mr. Sigel, oh is that bad and he said no, lots of good players use it! Good luck!
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Mike Sigel plays and teaches that your grip should have zero pressure on the cue.

Darren Appleton said that ever since he started holding the cue with a light grip his game has taken off.

I think this pinching grip is a bunch of hooey and would like to know which pros use this.
 
bbb said:
for what its worth
when i was in college "joe" worked for the school but played pool 9 ball
he was often in the student center playing pool
he had a thumb but his fingers were gone at where the fingers meet the palm
he would hold the cue between his thumb and the side of the knub of his hand/palm
obviously he couldnt GRIP the cue
had to "pinch" it between his thumb and nubbin
he could really make the cue ball dance
maybe he used excessive spin for every shot
BUT HE COULD SPIN THE ROCK:)
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My ex BIL lost his all the fingers on his right hand in a meat grinder accident when he was 15. They used stomach skin to graft onto the end of his "stub", and all he had left was a thick pad of belly skin and a tiny nub of his thumb sticking about about 1/4" to the side.

He learned to shoot by bending his wrist and cradling the cue in the crook of his wrist. Basically, no grip at all. Just the weight of the cue and friction. I'd hardly say he played lights out, but he was a decent shot maker, and could put more spin on the ball than I could with my conventional grip.
 
Here's my take on THE BEST GRIP.

We all have different length and size fingers. Our cue butts are different diameters. No one grip best fits all hands & cues.
Experiment with different grips and see which one best suits you. Same thing goes for bridges.

I especially like the way Patrick and Sean articulate the detail of their grips. We should all pay more attention to our grip as well as our bridge.

Coach Lee Brett details the V grip and bridges quite well in his video, "The Secret Art of Pool".

I think I am going to try Sean's manner of determining what my grip problem is because on some, long shot that require speed of stroke, my cue ball sometimes goes where I don't intend it to go. If I let up on the speed of the stroke and repeat the shot, the cue ball goes precisely where I intended it to go. SOMETHING is obviously happening on those "power shots".
 
Pat and Sean..

Any chance of posting a pic of your grip at rest? I have a little trouble visualizing them.

Thanks!
 
whitewolf said:
Mike Sigel plays and teaches that your grip should have zero pressure on the cue.

Darren Appleton said that ever since he started holding the cue with a light grip his game has taken off.

I think this pinching grip is a bunch of hooey and would like to know which pros use this.
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I think you're missing the meaning on the "pinching" part of the discussion. To me, he's describing the points on the hand where the contact is being made, enough to actually hold the cue. To me, its no additional pressure, just using those points to grip the cue as opposed to the undersides of all four fingers. Still as lightly as possible, while still being able to hold the cue.

At least that's how it works for me.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
The grip I'm working on is a thumb-and-index-finger pincer that grips the cue at two points on opposite sides, allowing a hinge-like pivot as the angle between cue and hand changes throughout the pendulum swing.
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I think what you're describing is the grip I've used for years. The pressure between your upper thumb joint and upper index joint (against one another) do the holding, right?

I like it because the princers are very powerful and can hold the cue securely with minimal tension. The difficulty I've had is on power shots - like the break shot - preventing the rest of the hand from joining in on a death grip (I've been practicing power shots more and it seems to be helping).
 
Thanks for bringing it up PJ. Ten or fifteen years ago when I was playing regularly there was nothing I obsessed about more than the grip. I always felt that I'd find that one place in my hand where everything came together and then I'd never miss a ball. That would have freed up much more time for me to obsess about my stance. I felt like I must have been the only upper C lower B player who never did anything twice. Some days I was lights out, others I couldn't run five balls.
I've been back at it for about six weeks working on fundamentals, drills, etc. Four days ago I arrived at a grip that sounds very much like what Sean mentioned. More of a cradle with the cue resting on the middle knuckle of my index finger and lightly touching the same part of my middle finger. I found this cradle to be the one place that does not affect the line from my back stroke all the way to finish -even if I collapse my elbow and shoulder into the shot and extend my follow through an extra 18 inches past the CB. I took a new stance that is a little easier on my back and have been able to go down to my table each day and repeat the entire setup. Usually I experiance a brain dump when I go to bed and do the whole groundhog day thing each day trying to find my stroke. Now that it seems ingrained I go right into my drills and need no warmup. I'll always miss balls but I don't miss very many any more. I'm just excited I can repeat everything without searching every day.
Sorry for the long post. I still remember writing notes on my dry erase board years ago about what I tried that day for grip and stance. I sure hope those days are behind me. Great thread and good luck to all in finding what works for you.
 
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I've been studying and experimenting w/ different grip types for about 6 months straight.

My traditional grip has always been my middle two fingers with the first and pinky basically off the cue... focusing on the V being top center.

Lately, I've experimented with a first finger and thumb grip which works well and promotes a loose follow-through. I've also experimented with tucking the middle finger under the cue (Busty-style) with this grip.

All of this boils down to creating a better "wrist-turn-free" hinge. I have not experimented w/ a pinch, but it's worthy of experimentation.

Mike Lambros has a super concept for this problem by changing the cue design. Can't divulge more than that - good stuff coming from his shop.

If anyone has good ideas for a non-traditional back-hand (since the book info just doesn't work for me personally), please post your concepts.

This is a good thread -
 
SpiderWebComm said:
.....
If anyone has good ideas for a non-traditional back-hand (since the book info just doesn't work for me personally), please post your concepts.
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How about using the last 3 fingers only ? Fran suggested this to me. The cue will move up/down a little due to the pinky acting like an anchor, but the wrist feels more locked in making the stroke very straight.
 
I like a firm, not too hard (not enough squeeze to kill a bird, but not enough to let the cue slide) grip with the thumb, index and middle finger, let the ring finger and pinkie dangle, ala Ronnie Alcano. I allow just a tad of wrist snap. Keeps me from rolling my cue or "snatching" the cue on delivery. I keep the top of the web of my grip hand on top of the cue to the finish point, works great. I also bear down pretty strong on the bridge, too.
 
MOJOE said:
Pat and Sean..

Any chance of posting a pic of your grip at rest? I have a little trouble visualizing them.

Thanks!
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Mojoe:

Definitely can try, the next time I'm out. Unfortunately, my area got hit by a tornado this past weekend (yes, tornadoes in NY -- who'd a thunk it?). I'm still cleaning up, repairing damage, and, well, stacking "free firewood" from the felled trees (hey, when life hands you lemons, make lemonade... or a good veal or chicken francais. ;) )

I'll be out playing a bit later in the week, and I'll try to remember to take pics. It's just right now my arms feel like linguine after all that chainsawing and moving of wood. :(

-Sean
 
Last night a great player was visiting Buffalo Billiards and I took the opportunity to ask him to practice with me. While getting eat on, I noticed his most unusual grip while practicing with him and asked him about it. The first end-digit of his index finger was under the bottom of the cue, which kind of made his middle knuckle on his index finger kind of protrude above the rest of his knuckles BEFORE the final stroke (kind of like the way some top players' index finger looks at the finish. He looked at me like I had come from Mars and responded that he didn't know that he held it like that but that he had always held his hand like that but he didn't think it was anything special. Run out, run out, run out, run out. Yeah, nothing special there.........:wink:
 
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