Ghost ball, Paralell line etc.

[Cameron Smith]

http://www.sfbilliards.com/PnB_aiming.pdf

Click on the above link for an Adobe .pdf from Pool and Billiard Magazine '95.

Dozens of top pros weight in.

What did I take away from the article? That pool is a game of feel. Nobody at the highest level uses systems as their primary shooting tool. They may use it to back up their instincts, or to double check themselves, so to speak. But nobody has geometric formulas running through their head while shooting that long, tough cut shot on the nine ball to win that hill hill match.

Hope this helps.

Great article!

I would say of all the methods covered I use Ray Martins aiming method. That is to say, when I have a paticularly tough shot that Im not comfortable with I aim a portion of the cueball at the contact point.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Don't you think that pro's have secrets. Maybe there's a secret to why they make every ball and get perfect shape every time.

But they don't, every time. Even Efren and Earl miss. I think many pros, like many amateurs, have beliefs they think are secrets. They have no idea what other people know.

 

[mthornto]

I am always amazed about discussions on aiming systems. I think a lot of people are missing the forest and banging thier heads into the trees.

Knowing where to aim is really pretty easy. There are a lot of great systems and one can become a great shot without a system.

But, so what? Really, so what? Two points: 1) aiming is easy, hitting what you aim for is the real trick and 2) most games are really lost because of poor position or shot selection leading to difficult shots.

I think many players (at least me anyhow) are guiltyof spending way to much time practicing our shot making. I have spent way to much time practicing shot making. I am a very good shot, but I still get beat by a lot of players that can make shots nearly as well as I do. They make better decisions and play better position. Had I taken half the time I spent practicing aming and shot making and spent it on position play and shot selection I would be a better player today.


BTW: Of all the systems, I do really like Joe's.

 

[ceebee]

... there are good systems out there, that weren’t available earlier and I believe these methods can help players improve faster (not everybody has the time available to just hit millions of balls and I think saying, "everyone’s brain, will improve their aim, the same as the next guys or gals" is like saying, we all have the same IQ or same memory skills) by taking a positive tone towards these methods .... paraphrased

I've played for 48 years. I was a "CENTURY PLAYER" in Snooker for dozens of years. I quit playing Pool for 13-14 years, so I could focus on my career & my kids. Working at BOEING, 60-70 hours a week, did not allow me to stay out all night anymore.

When I came back, the "thrill of victory" was few & far between, so I bought some books & began the long journey back.

My first attempts were pitiful, compared to my ability in my youth, but having been an ENGINEER & analytical, I researched the variables. Reading several Pocket Billiard's books & watching some nifty videos assisted me in making my way back to 80% of my youthful prowess. Today I am having fun, am still a "threat to win" & I have amassed some great knowledge.

I like systems, several of them. "Double the Distance" is great, Base of the Ball for Straight Ins", Parallel Lines for CP to CP, the Diamond system for banks & position play, The 2 Plus Sytem for 2 Railing & others, when I can remember them.

I like FEEL to, but my FEEL is about my stroking for position of Whitey.

But hey ... what do I know, I can't beat any Pro alive. However, I can still manage a win, once in awhile, against the local TUFFS. When I get someone wanting to gain some knowledge, I share my knowledge of SYSTEMS & FEEL.

I really feel that every player arrives at the "SHOT LINE", by some means... a System, FEEL or Memory Recall... JMHO

 

[Joe T]

I am always amazed about discussions on aiming systems. I think a lot of people are missing the forest and banging thier heads into the trees.

Knowing where to aim is really pretty easy.

I would say aiming in the general area is fairly easy but even that skill is not easy for everyone. When I talk about aiming here I'm really talking about fine tuning it as much as possible.

There are a lot of great systems and one can become a great shot without a system.

Faster with one or without one?
We're talking general public, not the 12 yr old that is lucky enough to have some natural abililty and the opportunity to be around a pool table or some good players.

But, so what? Really, so what? Two points: 1) aiming is easy, hitting what you aim for is the real trick

They're both real tricks and both should be practiced and really I think the aiming is the easier of the 2, if taught and absorbed properly. I can probably teach you how to aim every reasonable shot on the table in less than a week, maybe 1 day but as you say getting them to hit where they're aiming will take longer. But if we put the aiming issue aside by giving people the proper info as quickly as possible they will have an easier time developing other skills and not wondering if their aim is off.

and 2) most games are really lost because of poor position or shot selection leading to difficult shots.

I agree and do not preach just practice your aim, I especially don't preach just practice your aim with center ball. I usually mix as much position play or stroke shots as possible with the aiming system because that's how it is in the real world right? All areas of the game need attention. learning one as fast as possible can free up time to get to the others.

I think many players (at least me anyhow) are guilty of spending way to much time practicing our shot making. I have spent way to much time practicing shot making. I am a very good shot, but I still get beat by a lot of players that can make shots nearly as well as I do. They make better decisions and play better position. Had I taken half the time I spent practicing aming and shot making and spent it on position play and shot selection I would be a better player today.

Could you tell me (in a pm if you wish) how it is you went about learning the game. Like how long you spent working on what things? I totally agree there's not enough hours in the day to practice our speed and postion play.

BTW: Of all the systems, I do really like Joe's

Thanks for that and I'm sorry if my response here seems like I'm just disagreeing with some of the things you've said here cuz that's not what I'm trying to do. I'm trying my best to keep everything positive and smooth in hopes that we as a board might be able to come up with a standard pool players mindset when it comes to advising all the other players that come here looking to learn. The last time I did this I was hoping we could just have a general aiming section where we could simply point someone to whenever they brought up the subject then I wouldn't have to spend all this time defending an aiming system that can help more players improve at a faster rate.

 

[enzo]

my final word...

visualize any shot in your head right now. now picture moving the cueball around to various locations, but leaving the object ball in the same spot. everyone needs to realize there are an infinite number of places you can put the cueball, and thus an infinite number of cut angles. any system you use, for it to be correct, would have to be infinite in its possible solutuions to be correct or valid. i know for a fact there is no system that has an infinite number of solutions (on the contrary, i've heard people say things like there are only 4 shots in pool, bla, bla, that is a huge load of crap). sadly, there is really no debating this. if you do debate it, it's like debating evolution vs creation.... people will debate all they want, but there is one side that is obviously correct.

now, do these systems help people, i'm sure they do. so, good for all the people who get advantage from them, i'd never discourage you from continuing to use it. but the argument that systems are mathematically correct is flawed.

thanks for the discussion everybody!

 

[ridingthenine21]

You are right, there are not only four shots. That is silly. But it seems like there are just three AIMS. The angles can vary by minute amounts, but those three aims cover (from my personal experience so far) about 95% of all shots. And I am not sure if I am doing the rest entirely correctly. I would not believe this myself had I not experienced it first hand. Something that seems to fly in the face of all logic...works. Please don't ask me to explain it because I can't...

 

[slanidrac16]

Hi. I'm a new memeber and conducting a test.

 

[Josh Palmer]

Did you say you started playing at 22 Joe? I think that's pretty late... and the fact that you play the speed that you do is a testament to how much dedication you put in. I think that the fact is, that there are many different ways to aim, yet finding something that works for you without questioning it is the problem for myself and many. When I am playing bad, I am constantly chirping lamely about not knowing how to aim. How do I not know how to aim after running a few racks? Doesn't make any sense. But a system that we believe in (even if there are tiny flaws) makes us very capable, and we perceive the shot the same way every time. Everyone who gets into dead stroke plays by feel... it's the other 90% of the time that a good general system allows us to play through that 'struggling' feeling.

 

[CaptainJR]

See my results post on my aiming (pole) thread called 'OK Colin, lets talk aiming.'

 

[Bob Jewett]

You are right, there are not only four shots. That is silly. But it seems like there are just three AIMS. The angles can vary by minute amounts, but those three aims cover (from my personal experience so far) about 95% of all shots. And I am not sure if I am doing the rest entirely correctly. I would not believe this myself had I not experienced it first hand. Something that seems to fly in the face of all logic...works. Please don't ask me to explain it because I can't...

There's no need to explain it because it's not physical. Physics and geometry say that your beliefs are wrong. But you pocket balls. This just says that you don't play by physics and geometry. Like most players, you play by feel. The limited number of angles you consider just prepares your brain/arm for a general type of shot. Your brain/arm does the rest, unless your conscious mind interferes. I think the worst thing you could do for your game at this point is to try to understand how all this works.

 

[ridingthenine21]

Physics and geometry say that your beliefs are wrong

I didn't say anything about my beliefs. I said I wouldn't believe it but it worked. I have always been a feel player and have never considered angles etc. I always thought aiming systems were crap that novices tried so they could take a shortcut to be a pro. HOWEVER, I am a very results oriented person. If something will help my game, I use it. If I make more balls if I stick feathers up my butt and chant "nana-nana-nana" then I will do it. I am always looking for something to improve my game. I absolutely agree that there are a myriad of angles on a pool table. The balls don't seem to care what I believe, all I know is that I am pocketing more consistently and effortlessly than I was before. I tried something and it worked for me, no need to get testy.

 

[Jaden]

Let me put it this way.....

Almost every player that I've heard on this board that has said that systems don't work, don't play at a high speed. Correct me if I'm wrong, if there's one A+ player out there that states this then by all means speak up, if not then shut up and let people who are at lower levels get some good advice and learn the game....

 

[Bob Jewett]

I didn't say anything about my beliefs. ...

You're right. I should have been more careful in my wording. I should have said that physics and geometry say that 3 (or 7) angles aren't nearly enough to cover the range of cut angles you have to be able to execute, but that psychologically that seems to be enough of an outline or framework to help some people. Evidently you're one of them. My point was that to explain the effectiveness of a "limited number of angles" system, you shouldn't look at logic or physics because the answer doesn't lie there.

One problem is that some who like the "limited number of angles" sytems seem to think they can be explained by geometry and physics. This leads to lots of pointless discussions.

 

[ridingthenine21]

One problem is that some who like the "limited number of angles" sytems seem to think they can be explained by geometry and physics. This leads to lots of pointless discussions.

I definately agree with you there. That's why I said don't ask me to explain it...it never solves anything for anyone and people just scratch their heads. I think if something helps someone shoot better, great, no matter how strange it may sound (as long as it doesn't involve pumpkins!)
By the way Bob, I have read many of your articles and have a pdf in a binder of your progressive drills that I use from time to time. Good stuff.

 

[Cameron Smith]

Almost every player that I've heard on this board that has said that systems don't work, don't play at a high speed. Correct me if I'm wrong, if there's one A+ player out there that states this then by all means speak up, if not then shut up and let people who are at lower levels get some good advice and learn the game....

And I have heard alot of D C B players talk about how these systems work very well. But if they are so fool proof than why do they miss all of the time? Furthermore these players should be advancing if these systems work so well.

I don't know about being an A+ player (I've never been a tournament player or even a league player), but I do have century (112) in snooker under my belt (in match play). I accomplished this by simply recognizing the angles, no ghost ball, no paralell lines and no lights. The closest thing to an aiming system I use is on difficult shots, I check the contact point and aim the piece of cueball that I know will contact the OB.

It was mentioned earlier that aiming systems are very good for learning the different angles. Nevertheless it later becomes a crutch in my opinion. I started playing much better when I took the "training wheels off" so to speak. I began trusting my instincts. As a result I became more confident.

I do advocate finding a system that works for you if your just learning. I think it will speed up the learning curve and reduce a bit of the trial and error. I found the "edge of the ball" system very useful because there isn't any visualization involved. The more that is left to the imagination, the more there is that can go wrong.

 

[jsp]

...The closest thing to an aiming system I use is on difficult shots, I check the contact point and aim the piece of cueball that I know will contact the OB.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's an aiming system right there. So you DO use an aiming system.

 

[Cameron Smith]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's an aiming system right there. So you DO use an aiming system.

lol, ok Ill concede that is an aiming system. But it is also true that any method of aiming is a system. Even players who stand back and move around behind the shot until it feels right is, in effect, a system.

What I do still relies primarily on instinct and memory, so it is more feel than anything else. Its not something a beginner could pick up and say, "AH the secret has been revealed!". Besides that I generally use it on tough shots. shots like 70 - 90 degree angled long shots. So in other words, I use it when I really mess up my position.

 

[jsp]

lol, ok Ill concede that is an aiming system. But it is also true that any method of aiming is a system. Even players who stand back and move around behind the shot until it feels right is, in effect, a system.

DM would be so proud.

 

[Cameron Smith]

DM would be so proud.

lol. Im guess he said something similar?