Ghost Ball Systems...
- Thread starter Zims Rack
- Start date
Joe T
Well-known member
drivermaker said:
Don't worry dude,I don't over analyze or agonanize, I simply walk over to the object ball, see what number it is and then I line up the contact points or let the contact points line me up as I fall into the shot. But yes, I do use the numbers to compensate for squirt and masse, much more specific than just saying a little fuller or a little thinner.
Hey Zim I was up with Tim last year. He had a friend of mine teaching with him in Vermont. I know you can't talk about it right now but I'm curious that he's developed a new aiming system since I showed him this one. When I was there he was using the tip associated with steps method. Is he still teaching that method of aim or is he now teaching with this new ghost ball system?
Joe- The system he teaches isn't the same as yours. He uses something different for aiming and has encorporated the ghost ball system into it a little. It's more a mental thing than physical. Who's your friend that teaches/taught at Vermont?
Thanks,
Zim
Thanks,
Zim
Joe T
Well-known member
Zims Rack said:
Hunter Lombardo from Ohio, I'm not sure why they're still not together. They were both pretty happy about working together, especially on this instructor certification program. Hunter really liked how Tim was action. If they came up with a new idea, Tim would wake up the next day already to take steps to impliment it! I really liked the Billiard Sanctuary too. Those two took off one day and I had about 4 hrs there alone and it was a sanctuary for me.
Tim and Hunter are still together! Hunter is teaching out of Ohio as a Certified Level Instructor. Hunter worked with Tim on the BSACA Finer Points DVD series that was just released in the last couple of months. Hunter and Landon Shuffett are guest instructors for Tim. Tim's a great guy and is full of knowledge. I'm honored to be one of his Instructors and part of the BSACA. Tim will be touring the Central and Eastern States during the month of September on a marketing campaign.Joe T said:
Zim
drivermaker
Banned
sjm said:
SJM, you can try it but you aren't going to get it on your own. There are other factors involved and if you don't know them, you'll end up saying it's a bunch of crap.
For science guys, everything about some of these systems is counterintuitive and makes no sense on paper, that's where the problems come in, it can't be described in a logical geometric fashion.
What if I told you that on ALL cut shots of up to 30 degrees that you would be initially aiming the tip of your cue at the middle of the OB from any distance and never miss, would you believe me?? I already know the answer....what a whacko!! But it's true.
drivermaker said:
Good stuff, DM, and thanks for your post. I'm very much a man of math and science, but one who is fascinated by the occasional irreconcilability of the theoretical with the practical. There is no substitute for experience, and anything we've seen that works with repeatable precision is worth holding onto, whether we can explain it in theoretical terms or not. I don't doubt your claim about cut shots, for your experience has validated it, and expereince, as is so often said, is the best teacher.
drivermaker said:
Thanks Drivermaker, you and I agree on something....LOL...that's cool.I've heard about this 1/4 ball, 1/2 and 3/4 system before from more than one source.A friend of mine told me that the legendary Snooker Champion Joe Davis talks about it in his book. Whether this is a fact or not, I don't know.
All I know is that my(A+) Philipino friend won our major tournament here and knocked of 3 local pros including John Horsfall and Paul Potier in the process.
drivermaker said:
The key word there is "initially". You could initially aim your cue at the position of Mars in the night sky, but still make the shot later.
The funny thing about Hal's systems is that they can never be described. Nobody who uses it can write it down, not even Hal himself. I'm not saying that they don't work, but I just think it's a bit strange.
drivermaker
Banned
Mungtor said:
Oh yeah...they can be explained. If not, how do you think individuals have learned them from Hal? I just have no desire to plagarize his work or be a self appointed teaching disciple. If Hal wanted it in writing and distributed to every Tom, Dick, and Harry, I'm sure he'd do it.
drivermaker said:
Well, if you believe Hal's own words, he has no problem teaching anybody. He gives his systems away free for the asking. As for them being explained, nobody has ever written down how to apply the system to any given shot. I've emailed back and forth with Hal trying to find out about his system, and he came across to me like Fast Larry only with less venom. He may have been having a bad few days, but he was incapable of answering a direct question.
Anyway, Hal's "systems" have been talked about far and wide on various forums, so I'm not going to rehash it again here. If you know it, more power to you. The rest of us will just have to struggle along on our own.
drivermaker
Banned
Mungtor said:Well, if you believe Hal's own words, he has no problem teaching anybody. He gives his systems away free for the asking. As for them being explained, nobody has ever written down how to apply the system to any given shot. I've emailed back and forth with Hal trying to find out about his system, and he came across to me like Fast Larry only with less venom. He may have been having a bad few days, but he was incapable of answering a direct question.
Anyway, Hal's "systems" have been talked about far and wide on various forums, so I'm not going to rehash it again here. If you know it, more power to you. The rest of us will just have to struggle along on our own.
I do believe Hal's own words, he will teach anybody and does give them away free for the asking....IF. Nobody has written them down because of the same reason I won't write them down...it isn't mine to write down. But use your head, if something can be taught to another individual by being verbalized, even over the phone, it can also be transcribed verbatim and put into the written word, what's the difference? And if you think he was incapable of answering a direct question, that's probably why he didn't respond. HE doesn't have to respond to anyone that has bad mouthed or confronted him on AZ, RSB, or any forum along with an email, and he won't.
Why do you think the so called "gurus" of RSB get shunned and toyed with by him. He could care less, and that's the big IF. So struggle on......
dex_octane
Scratch
Hello All!
I dont know much about putting this in words so here are pics.
Now I used this and made my own and it works.
The following is from www.seyberts.com
As seen on ESPN.
The Ghostball Aim Trainer is simple to use and delivers powerful results! Through visual reinforcement, this hands-on product takes the confusion out of two of the most difficult aspects of the game: How & where to aim, and how to leave the cueball in position for your next shot.
In easy to understand terms, you'll learn the Ghostball method of aiming, a highly accurate technique used by pros and master instructors. You'll see improvement immediately on cue shots, cueball control, position play and more. The visual nature of the Ghostball Aim Trainer trains your minds-eye to quickly see the aiming point, and to see where the cueball will go once it hits the object ball. This is called 'position play', and learning or mastering how to leave the cueball in position for your next shot can greatly enhance the fun you have playing pool.
These and other topics are covered in a Lesson Booklet designed to guide you through basic to advanced level techniques at your own pace. Use the Ghostball Aim Trainer with Practice Balls and you'll see all around improvement right away - GUARANTEED!
Practice Balls and The Ghostball Aim Trainer are Endorsed by Robert Byrne, Author Of The World's #1-Selling Pool Instructional Books & Videos.
I dont know much about putting this in words so here are pics.
Now I used this and made my own and it works.
The following is from www.seyberts.com
As seen on ESPN.
The Ghostball Aim Trainer is simple to use and delivers powerful results! Through visual reinforcement, this hands-on product takes the confusion out of two of the most difficult aspects of the game: How & where to aim, and how to leave the cueball in position for your next shot.
In easy to understand terms, you'll learn the Ghostball method of aiming, a highly accurate technique used by pros and master instructors. You'll see improvement immediately on cue shots, cueball control, position play and more. The visual nature of the Ghostball Aim Trainer trains your minds-eye to quickly see the aiming point, and to see where the cueball will go once it hits the object ball. This is called 'position play', and learning or mastering how to leave the cueball in position for your next shot can greatly enhance the fun you have playing pool.
These and other topics are covered in a Lesson Booklet designed to guide you through basic to advanced level techniques at your own pace. Use the Ghostball Aim Trainer with Practice Balls and you'll see all around improvement right away - GUARANTEED!
Practice Balls and The Ghostball Aim Trainer are Endorsed by Robert Byrne, Author Of The World's #1-Selling Pool Instructional Books & Videos.
drivermaker said:
Pardon me, but that's the same line of crap I hear from everybody who knows Hal's systems. Either he makes you all take a blood oath or threatens your family. I feel a bit safer not knowing it.
If there's no difference, write it down. Stop wrapping it in the mysticism of it being counter-intuitive, not yours, or whatever and just write it down. Hal doesn't care (apparently) so why should you?
drivermaker said:
Whatever. I was both genuinely curious and polite in my e-mail to him, and he seemed interesting in simply proving that he knew something I didn't. Not to teach, but just to be superior. It's why he immediately reminded me of Fast Larry in one of his worse moods. You may not get that side of him, but I did.
drivermaker said:Why do you think the so called "gurus" of RSB get shunned and toyed with by him. He could care less, and that's the big IF. So struggle on......
Yeah..... He shuns and toys with them. If you believe that, you must also believe that all shots can be made using only 3 points.
Generally he gets asked some specific questions and runs off claiming he is persecuted.Possibly because he writes things like:
There are only 3 angles for any shot, on any size table. This includes; caroms, single rail banks, double rail banks, 1, 2, 3, and 4 rail banks, and double kiss banks. Any table has a 2 to 1 ratio; 3 1/2 x 7, 4 x 8, 4 ½ x 9, 5 x 10, 6 x 12. It is always twice as long as it is wide. The table corners are 90-degree angles. When you lay a cue from the side pocket to the corner pocket, you are forming an angle of 45 degrees. When you lay a cue from the side pocket to the middle diamond on the same end rail, you are forming an angle of 30 degrees. When you lay a cue from the side pocket to the first diamond on the same end rail, you are forming an angle of 15 degrees. When you add up these 3 angles, they total 90 degrees, which is the same angle formed by the table corners. The cue ball relation to object ball relation shot angle is always 15, 30, or 45 degrees. The solution is very simple. There are only 2 edges on the cue ball to aim with, and they are always exactly in the same place on the cue ball. There are only 3 exact spots on the object ball to aim to, and they are always exactly in the same place on the object ball. So, 2 edges on the cue ball, and 3 spots on the object ball; 2 x 3 = 6 which is the total number of table pockets. This means that, depending upon how the cue ball and object ball lie in relation to one another, you may either pocket the object ball directly into a pocket or bank it into any one of the remaining 5 pockets.
Interesting, and if he is telling you to use diamonds to estimate cut shots it is vaguely useful. But "2 edges on the cue ball, and 3 spots on the object ball; 2 x 3 = 6 which is the total number of table pockets" is pure hand waving.
Seriously, I'm done with this. I like reading most of the posts here, and I don't want a flame war/feud over anything. I tried to lean Hal's system from him and he was not cooperative when I simpy asked him how it worked. People who have learned from him all state that "Hal has asked me not to talk about it", or some other reason not to discuss details. I've got nothing against the guy. At least he provides something to talk about occasionally.
This thread seems to have wandered away from your original question, but ....Zims Rack said:
There is an aiming device in Cranfield's straight pool book. Cranfield states that he feels the device is so important and useful that he was considering writing a whole book just about it.
As for the Ghost Ball system itself, everyone should be sure to remember that if you do not compensate for throw, the system is not nearly as accurate as you need to play decent pool. On the other hand, if you do properly compensate for throw, and land the cue ball on the intended spot, the system is (more or less by definition) perfect. Many players, including some former world champions, don't realize that the basic system has to be compensated.
drivermaker
Banned
Mungtor said:Pardon me, but that's the same line of crap I hear from everybody who knows Hal's systems. Either he makes you all take a blood oath or threatens your family. I feel a bit safer not knowing it.
If there's no difference, write it down. Stop wrapping it in the mysticism of it being counter-intuitive, not yours, or whatever and just write it down. Hal doesn't care (apparently) so why should you?
Whatever. I was both genuinely curious and polite in my e-mail to him, and he seemed interesting in simply proving that he knew something I didn't. Not to teach, but just to be superior. It's why he immediately reminded me of Fast Larry in one of his worse moods. You may not get that side of him, but I did.
Yeah..... He shuns and toys with them. If you believe that, you must also believe that all shots can be made using only 3 points.
Possibly because he writes things like:
There are only 3 angles for any shot, on any size table. This includes; caroms, single rail banks, double rail banks, 1, 2, 3, and 4 rail banks, and double kiss banks. Any table has a 2 to 1 ratio; 3 1/2 x 7, 4 x 8, 4 ½ x 9, 5 x 10, 6 x 12. It is always twice as long as it is wide. The table corners are 90-degree angles. When you lay a cue from the side pocket to the corner pocket, you are forming an angle of 45 degrees. When you lay a cue from the side pocket to the middle diamond on the same end rail, you are forming an angle of 30 degrees. When you lay a cue from the side pocket to the first diamond on the same end rail, you are forming an angle of 15 degrees. When you add up these 3 angles, they total 90 degrees, which is the same angle formed by the table corners. The cue ball relation to object ball relation shot angle is always 15, 30, or 45 degrees. The solution is very simple. There are only 2 edges on the cue ball to aim with, and they are always exactly in the same place on the cue ball. There are only 3 exact spots on the object ball to aim to, and they are always exactly in the same place on the object ball. So, 2 edges on the cue ball, and 3 spots on the object ball; 2 x 3 = 6 which is the total number of table pockets. This means that, depending upon how the cue ball and object ball lie in relation to one another, you may either pocket the object ball directly into a pocket or bank it into any one of the remaining 5 pockets.
Interesting, and if he is telling you to use diamonds to estimate cut shots it is vaguely useful. But "2 edges on the cue ball, and 3 spots on the object ball; 2 x 3 = 6 which is the total number of table pockets" is pure hand waving.
Seriously, I'm done with this. I like reading most of the posts here, and I don't want a flame war/feud over anything. I tried to lean Hal's system from him and he was not cooperative when I simpy asked him how it worked. People who have learned from him all state that "Hal has asked me not to talk about it", or some other reason not to discuss details. I've got nothing against the guy. At least he provides something to talk about occasionally.
Oh Lordy, Lordy....sounds like another tortured soul from someone that doesn't know Hal's systems, got shunned by Hal, and will NEVER know his systems. That's O.K. Mungtor, I know exactly how you feel since I've never been invited to join Augusta National and the pricks in power will probably never ask me to join.
