Giving weight which is easier to win: 8Ball or 9Ball

[jeffj2h]

I asked Bert Kinister this question. His answer was immediate: it's easier for the better player to overcome games on the wire in 8Ball. No quick combos to win the game, no short runouts if the stronger player misses late, and a lot of balls to snooker the opponent with. Bert's advice: let the weaker player run a few balls per inning while the stronger player focuses on resolving clusters or problem balls. Once the weaker player has cleared a lot of his balls, the stronger player can runout or it will be easy to play safe as needed on the way to a runout.

 

[poolguy4u]

I asked Bert Kinister this question. His answer was immediate: it's easier for the better player to overcome games on the wire in 8Ball. No quick combos to win the game, no short runouts if the stronger player misses late, and a lot of balls to snooker the opponent with. Bert's advice: let the weaker player run a few balls per inning while the stronger player focuses on resolving clusters or problem balls. Once the weaker player has cleared a lot of his balls, the stronger player can runout or it will be easy to play safe as needed on the way to a runout.

And that is Bert's opinion. And you can say the opposite is true. I don't know of anyone missing on purpose thinking he is the better player and thinking he will run out later in the game.

Actually, the better player will run 5 or 6 balls and miss, then most likely leave an open table for the weaker player in 8 ball.

You said earlier you were a handicap #6 in APA. Well, that's why you are a #6. You probably run 5 or 6 balls and miss. Being a #6 in APA, you probably rarely run a rack and leave your opponent with an easy run out. This is in 8 ball.

Now in 9 Ball, I always say if you are going to miss, do it before the 5 ball (against a weaker player). Now if you make the 5, you better go all the way.

And if you want to talk about luck...all games have luck involved. There is no way of getting around it. There is a lot of luck in pool no matter how good you are or what game you play.

 

[CantEverWin]

To be honest its not even close. 8 ball is a much easier game to win giving up games. Especially when your playing someone who isn't going to run more than 4 balls very often. There are people who consider themselves "9 ball players" and even if they don't realize it, their winning percentage would be higher in 8 ball.
Apa changes 9 ball to something else, so you can't just use their numbers.

The best evidence of this would be the NAPA league. They play 8 ball, 9 ball, and 10 ball. (Not in every area)
The skill ratings are determined by winning, and you get a rating in each game. The handicap formula determines skill rating the same way reguardless of which game you play.
Almost every "good player" has an 8 ball rating that is higher than their other ratings. Also 10 ball is slightly higher than 9 ball, but that's a different conversation.

The only time this is not true is when players don't have a proper amount of matches played.
An example would be NAPA's highest rated player Jason Kirkwood. His 8 ball handicap is in the mid 140's, and his 9 ball is in the low 120's.

9 ball gives the weaker player more opportunities to win. It's just the design of the game. You can't really beat yourself playing 8 ball vs. weak players, you easily can in 9 ball.


Look at it this way, an Apa 6 is roughly a 70 in Napa. Playing Jason Kirkwood that's a 10-2 race. If you were betting money on the lower player would you rather the player pick 8 ball, or 9 ball? It's an easy choice right?

By the way, for those who don't know Napa has all game stats online. You can easily look the matches up.

 

[poolguy4u]

To be honest its not even close. 8 ball is a much easier game to win giving up games. Especially when your playing someone who isn't going to run more than 4 balls very often. There are people who consider themselves "9 ball players" and even if they don't realize it, their winning percentage would be higher in 8 ball.
Apa changes 9 ball to something else, so you can't just use their numbers.

The best evidence of this would be the NAPA league. They play 8 ball, 9 ball, and 10 ball. (Not in every area)
The skill ratings are determined by winning, and you get a rating in each game. The handicap formula determines skill rating the same way reguardless of which game you play.
Almost every "good player" has an 8 ball rating that is higher than their other ratings. Also 10 ball is slightly higher than 9 ball, but that's a different conversation.

The only time this is not true is when players don't have a proper amount of matches played.
An example would be NAPA's highest rated player Jason Kirkwood. His 8 ball handicap is in the mid 140's, and his 9 ball is in the low 120's.

9 ball gives the weaker player more opportunities to win. It's just the design of the game. You can't really beat yourself playing 8 ball vs. weak players, you easily can in 9 ball.


Look at it this way, an Apa 6 is roughly a 70 in Napa. Playing Jason Kirkwood that's a 10-2 race. If you were betting money on the lower player would you rather the player pick 8 ball, or 9 ball? It's an easy choice right?

By the way, for those who don't know Napa has all game stats online. You can easily look the matches up.

:angry:

I don't think it matters what you play with Jason Kirkwood. He just doesn't miss.

 

[Maniac]

9-ball is a game where your opponent only has to make ONE ball to win the game. You can make the eight other balls, get less than perfect shape on the 9-ball, miss it and lose.

Your opponent is going to have to make some balls in 8-ball. Usually seven or more :wink:.

Also, there is more strategy involved in 8-ball, favoring the better player.

Just my $.02.

Maniac

 

[Push&Pool]

I have to give games on the wire so it will be a, say, 5-3 race or even a 5-2 race.

I can pick if we play either 8ball or 9ball.

Assume I play better them my opponent and know more of the strategy of both games. But my opponent is a threat to run 3-4 balls if the layout is right.

I'm an APA 6 in 8ball. I don't have a SL in 9ball.

Thanks,
Jeff

Oh well, are we talking about call-shot 8 or no shot calling? Also, by saying you play better against this hypothetical opponent, do you mean only your shooting/positioning skills are superior or do you wanna say your strategy, nerves, patience, ability to adapt to the table and equipment etc. are better as well comparing to his?

If it's the first case, and there's no shot calling in 8, then the opponent has better chances to win 8 than 9. Combination of patience, persistence with simple safes, cunningness, strategy and luck could maybe win him the day. On the other hand, if he doesn't get lucky in 9 and fails to pocket 9 early, you get a fairly good chance at winning.

In case you're better than him in every aspect, and it's call-shot 8, then he gets much more chances of winning the 9. In 8 luck alone won't save him, but in 9, if he gets lucky enough, those early 9 slops are much more likely to happen.

 

[poolguy4u]

9-ball is a game where your opponent only has to make ONE ball to win the game. You can make the eight other balls, get less than perfect shape on the 9-ball, miss it and lose.

Your opponent is going to have to make some balls in 8-ball. Usually seven or more :wink:.

Also, there is more strategy involved in 8-ball, favoring the better player.

Just my $.02.

Maniac

:shrug:


Works both ways...the better player only has to make one ball.


As far as strategys in 8 ball, the game plan changes sometimes on every shot.
When balls are moved, the plan must change. Bad position, the plan must change. When playing safe or kicking at balls, you need some luck.

I hear some people say they play a two way shot...well that means they played to make a ball and if they missed they might get lucky and leave a safe.:lol:


:thumbup:

 

[genomachino]

I like the 9 ball...............

I'd go with 8. There's no slopping in the win in 8. Much easier to prevent somebody from running out, too. If you play better and have better strategy in 8, giving up a game or two shouldn't be a problem against a lesser player.. except if they're on.

In 8 ball any player from a 5 to 7 can run out and play pretty good strategy.

In 9 ball, many players at lesser levels don't understand when to play safe and when to go for it.

Plus they have to get shape on one individual ball each time.

I think it would be hands down 9 ball. When I play 9 ball with the lesser player they look helpless much of the time.

But with 8 ball they can all run out. Plus, if you run out in 8 ball and don't get out the other guy has nothing in the way and should get out.

9 ball hands down for me..........

 

[Fatboy]

I have to give games on the wire so it will be a, say, 5-3 race or even a 5-2 race.

I can pick if we play either 8ball or 9ball.

Assume I play better them my opponent and know more of the strategy of both games. But my opponent is a threat to run 3-4 balls if the layout is right.

I'm an APA 6 in 8ball. I don't have a SL in 9ball.

Thanks,
Jeff

id rather give up the games in 8ball, I lost a dime last year to a guy giving me 2 on the wire to 6, he had to win 2 to 1 in games to beat me, he did....my back was bothering, i think i could have broke even or won a little had i not had back problems. he wouldnt give me the same spot in 9 ball and i dont blame him, in 8B the better/smarter player has the edge.

 

[CreeDo]

But with 8 ball they can all run out. Plus, if you run out in 8 ball and don't get out the other guy has nothing in the way and should get out.

9 ball hands down for me..........

I'd agree 8b is easier to run out.
But in my experience, if you run all the balls and get funny on the 8, then you just roll it softly
and hang it in front of the hole if you miss. You block the other guy's ball in the process.

Then he's gotta run 6-7 balls, including one problem ball that's blocked by the 8, and any miss = game over.
APA 5, 6, and some 7's do not win from here. The guy who hangs the 8 is usually the one who wins
later down the road. Maybe that's not true at pro speed.

Whereas in 9b, hanging the 9 is always a disaster so you gotta hit marginal game balls firmly
and hope for the best.

 

[Banks]

In 8 ball any player from a 5 to 7 can run out and play pretty good strategy.

In 9 ball, many players at lesser levels don't understand when to play safe and when to go for it.

Plus they have to get shape on one individual ball each time.

I think it would be hands down 9 ball. When I play 9 ball with the lesser player they look helpless much of the time.

But with 8 ball they can all run out. Plus, if you run out in 8 ball and don't get out the other guy has nothing in the way and should get out.

9 ball hands down for me..........

You could say a 5+ can also run out in 9. The thing is, for either to happen the lower rated player will need to be "on", which means a handicap will be an up-hill battle for the higher player anyways.

I based my opinion on the fact that he's an APA 6 and his opponent is weaker. He's not running out every rack, but his opponent is doing so even less often. That translates to more turns at the table. I don't want my opponent getting more chances to put the 9 in. I'd rather they have to run out a set of balls. If a 6 fails a run out, a 5 may not be getting out and I'd put money on the average 5 screwing up an open table with 7 balls.

Creedo's pretty spot-on for the run out, though you don't always get a look at that 8.

I'm a 9 and my 9b strategy sucks. I just like to try running everything out. But, when I can't, I prefer to screw up a safety.