Golf vs. Pool: Prize Money (mini-Rant)

COLLECTION GURU said:
AS AN EX-WORLD CLASS PROFESSIONAL IN POOL AND BOWLING,THEY ARE BOTH DIFFICULT GAMES. THE REASONING ABOVE IS FLAWED IN TOO MANY WAYS TO MENTION; ALL SPORTS THAT HAVE REASONABLE PARTICPATION SETS IT LEVEL OF STANDARDS BY THE TOP PERFORMERS.

FOR EXAMPLE, I HAD THE HIGHEST BOWLING AVERAGE IN ILLINOIS IN THE 1960'S WITH 209 WHICH WAS GREAT THEN BUT NOT THE BEST TODAY AS STIFS AVERAGE BETTER THAN THAT TODAY AS CONDITIONS ARE MUCH EASIER TODAY; THUS THE STANDARD INCREASES. SAME AS WITH GOLF, TRACK, ETC. BEFORE SOMONE SAYS HITTING A BASEBALL IS THE HARDEST THING TO DO IN SPORTS, IT REQUIRES TO HIT THE BALL 1 OUT OF 12 TIMES, 8.5%, TO HIT .250 AND MAKE $2,000,000 A YEAR AS A SECOND BASEMAN THUS THE STANDARD EVOLVES.
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to add to some of the others doubts about this post....to hit .250 you have to hit sucessfully 1 out of 4 at bats. 25%. And you kinda prove the point. If hitting were easier you wouldn't get paid $2 MIL for only hitting sucessfully 25% of the time. You know anyone that can run a rack of 9 ball 25% of the time??? There are plenty, and they probably don't all make $2 MIL a year.

BTW, I watched Carmen Salvino bowl in the 60's (late 60's - and past his prime BTW), and I know his average was better than that in any house he stepped into (he and my grandfather knew each other pretty well). I'm not sure who was tops in bowling in the 60's??? Dick Weber, Johnny Patraglia, ????, but I'm sure they had averages well over 209....

In most cases, not all, sports don't necessarily get easier, it's just that more people get better at the sports (hence more competition). Golf for example, is it easier to hit the ball straighter? yes. Longer? yep. Are the courses in better condition? uh-huh. Is the scoring average alot lower at the highest levels? NOPE!
 
Good thread.

One of the things that, in my opinion, keeps pool back in the US is the fact that there are too many manufacturers. I don't think this is a bad thing, just unfortunate. Only a few companies comprise the majority of market share in bowling, darts, fishing or any other sport often brought up in threads like this one.

Among table and cue manufacturers, is there any one company that has >15% market share in either product? The companies with the greatest net profits simply can not fund a national tour. Several companies, however, do sponsor regional tours, which is a solid foundation from which a national tour could be built.

In another thread, it came up that Tweeten probably makes the most money from pool via Master Chalk. Unfortunately, chalk is not a product that most pool players make a conscious choice about, so the motivation to spend a large portion of their marketing budget on tournament sponsorship does not exist.

The most viable business model out there appears to be the online sports betting model. This won't fly in the USA with the current online gaming laws in place, but, if the top US pros don't mind the travel, there could be viable tours in Europe and Asia in the future.
 
A pool table is a small playing surface. A bowling alley (lane) is bigger than a pool table. A basketball court is bigger than a bowling lane. A baseball field is bigger than a basketball court. A football field is bigger than a baseball field. A golf course is the biggest playing field of any game or sport.

Yea, so what? Well, do see a pattern? The bigger the playing field, the bigger the fan base, the bigger the involvement (fans, sponsors, supporters, etc) and the bigger the money is!

The bigger the better. That is how it is here in the USA. People want to be seen on TV supporting their, team, NASCAR racer, golfer and alike. They also want to walk around in their favorite teams sports clothing. They want to sit around the TV at home or at a bar, drinking beer, eating pizzas and cheering on their favorite pastime with their friends. They want to travel to see a superbowl, world series, playoff game or see Tiger Woods capture another major. They want to see the highlights on ESPN the next day. Fans are waiting to buy the next edition of Air Jordans from Nike.

Pool will never have this. Pool is the only game where HISTORY is prevalent to repeat itself. Pool is right up there with arm wrestling, darts, table tennis and just underneath bowling. It takes real business minded persons to make pool succeed. Not hopeless dreamers. Yea, well all have great Ideas on what pool needs, but, this is good as it gets...

So go out and play, enjoy and support what we have already. Play on the Viking and Joss tours, attend the DCC's, US Opens and other tournaments. Support your local billiard rooms. Buy a pool cue or 2, a case and a watch accu-stats dvds in your down time inbetween everything else. Because this really is as good as it gets!
 
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A pool table is a small playing surface. A bowling alley (lane) is bigger than a pool table. A basketball court is bigger than a bowling lane. A baseball field is bigger than a basketball court. A football field is bigger than a baseball field. A golf course is the biggest playing field of any game or sport.
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footballers earn more than golfers on average and has more worldwide involvement.
 
For those of you now scratching your heads at how more worldwide than golf "football" is........worried beef means "soccer":)

Devils adocate time.....re an earlier post, if a man is one of the best 6 people in the world at making ornaments out of seashells but nobody is ever likely to want to buy them does he "deserve" to make a comfortable living making them? No, obviously, because he produces a product that nobody wants, even as an art. So from whom do the great pool players "deserve" to receive enough incoming funds to make a living and why does anyone think they simply "deserve" to be able to make a living at pool in the first place, whoever is funding it? On the contrary, I think that if and when anyone DOES make a great living from playing pool, only THEN they can be said to deserve it.

The original poster states it is insulting that pool players don't and can't earn even a fraction of what top pro golfers earn. My questions are by whom does he think the great pool players are being insulted and why does he think they are being insulted?

Have been listening to the "potential big audiences for pool" refrain for over 40 years, the bleating rarely changes in any country, with the partial exception of sections of the Far East who have made some progress off their own bat. Even dyed in the wool fanatical pool players involved in the competitions don't hang around to watch the latter stages after they're knocked out. Pool tournaments are resoundingly boring and of negligible interest to the general public.....without some gimicky and no doubt "sad for the purists" brand new approach to the type of pool put on display that hasn't a hope in hell of changing.
 
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worriedbeef said:
it's a tired topic but i share your frustrations. especially as pool is a harder game than golf imo. even if it isn't, there's not much difference and yet the money is light years apart.

golf has some sort of upper class respectable aura about it which pool hasn't got. u get loads of people who just like golf for the sake of it and because it's cool to do so. pool doesn't have that kind of image.

sadly in life skill and ability doesn't nessecarilly correllate with money earned. just last night i was playing pool and where i play there are some HUGE pictures on the wall. one of geoff hurst lifting the world cup for england in 1966 and the other is evander holyfield and another boxer fighting. now i've been going there for years and i always assumed they were photos. The pool room owner told me they were paintings and he watched the man paint them in a couple of hours when the room was new. They are AMAZING. Brilliant feats of art.

I said to my friend it's like being a pool player. That man could very well be one of the best artists ever to have lived and yet nobody knows who he is, and makes just basic money.

like i said, talent doesn't nessecarilly equate money sadly.
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you gotta be kidding me. how many people do you know that can run 5 racks in a row? how many people do you know that can shoot 60 in 18 holes? there is the answer to the question. pool harder than golf, not even close.
 
COLLECTION GURU said:
AS AN EX-WORLD CLASS PROFESSIONAL IN POOL AND BOWLING,THEY ARE BOTH DIFFICULT GAMES. THE REASONING ABOVE IS FLAWED IN TOO MANY WAYS TO MENTION; ALL SPORTS THAT HAVE REASONABLE PARTICPATION SETS IT LEVEL OF STANDARDS BY THE TOP PERFORMERS.

FOR EXAMPLE, I HAD THE HIGHEST BOWLING AVERAGE IN ILLINOIS IN THE 1960'S WITH 209 WHICH WAS GREAT THEN BUT NOT THE BEST TODAY AS STIFS AVERAGE BETTER THAN THAT TODAY AS CONDITIONS ARE MUCH EASIER TODAY; THUS THE STANDARD INCREASES. SAME AS WITH GOLF, TRACK, ETC. BEFORE SOMONE SAYS HITTING A BASEBALL IS THE HARDEST THING TO DO IN SPORTS, IT REQUIRES TO HIT THE BALL 1 OUT OF 12 TIMES, 8.5%, TO HIT .250 AND MAKE $2,000,000 A YEAR AS A SECOND BASEMAN THUS THE STANDARD EVOLVES.
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something is wrong with the math. i didnt know that .085 and .250 were the same number. I think you meant to say you had to get on base by hitting the ball 1 in 4 tries and no error being made on the play. it is not that hard to hit the ball. Meaning make contact.
 
grandpapkusky said:
That just reminded me that golf never had a movie like pool did. Golf was big since who can remember? How has it been so durable and steady?

It's harder to make plans for a golf outing than it is to just go to a pool hall.
You can get better quicker in pool than in golf.

I just don't understand all this either.
Good thread.
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that is because, like I have said numerous times, gold is a harder sport to get good at. I will ask you this, Johnny Archer is one of the best players in the world, and loves golf. Ask him this question and see what he says. I already know the answer.
 
worriedbeef said:
footballers earn more than golfers on average and has more worldwide involvement.
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i just keep posting. this is crazy. how old is the sport of golf. founded in the 1700's. It is playes ion every country, continent and peovince in the world. I have seen people playing golf in Antarctica. How many football games have been played there? Or how bout the moon? Any footballs thrown up there? Dont think so. And more money, I dont think so. Who are the highest paid athletes. Overall, 3 of the top 10 are golfers. Football players arent even in the top 20. Hell Tiget and Phil made more last year than Manning, Favre, Manning, Brady. ladanian, (if not in jail)Vick, and probably next top 5 paid football players all together. Just between Phil and Tiger you are talking over 200 million. Nice ring to it huh. Yes. 200 million. you may want to rethink your posts before you know what you are talking about. and yes, 200 million. :o
oh, you meant soccer. Well step on up. You name the top 10 in soccer in the world and add up what they make and see. I needed a goof laugh. Thanks.
 
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subdude1974 said:
that is because, like I have said numerous times, gold is a harder sport to get good at. I will ask you this, Johnny Archer is one of the best players in the world, and loves golf. Ask him this question and see what he says. I already know the answer.
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That's one man's opinion, who happens to be supernaturally skilled at pool, but probably has to work harder to get somewhat competent at golf. Obviously if you spend a lot of time with one thing and then transition into something else, that something else is going to seems difficult by comparison.

As far as the difficulty factor of pool and golf being "worlds apart", I cannot disagree more. First off, it's impossible to determine an accurate "difficulty" factor for any given sport/game, because there's going to be talents who always set a new standard. For example, sitting in my chair at the moment is "easy", but if I take a look in the Guinness Book of World Records, I'll probably see some amazing feat of endurance and thus, "chair sitting" at its highest levels becomes very, very difficult.

Simple things are given a new dimension at their highest levels. Do you think James Naismith had the current level of the NBA in mind when he nailed a peach basket to the wall all those years ago?

Also, your comparison of 5 racks in row in 9 ball to a 60 score is way off. A 60 is probably more like 10 racks, a 250 run in 14.1, world class feats.

It seems like you're only considering 9 and 8 ball in your argument. A lot great 9 ballers can't break a 100 in straight.

But the fact still remains that you can't compare the two games. However, it is my opinion that pool requires more intellect than it does physical execution and Golf requires a certain amount of intellect, but more physical execution. Dicing your way through rack after rack in 14.1 to arrive at a 200 run requires more logic, reasoning, critical thinking than shooting a 62 on a tough course, but that 62 will definitely require more athletic performance.
 
In any game. I have shot 62 competitively and have had 5 course records that I can remember. Am I better than 90% of the golfing world(when I was playing all the time), probably. Am I even in the realm of Tiger or Phil, hell no. I have run 7 in a row in 9. All I am saying is pool is not as difficult to get great at as golf. I love both. I play pool mainly now. I enjoy playing golf with my father and brothers but that is about it. DO I wish I could play pool 6 days a week.(Gotta have 1 ffor my wife:)) yes. Do I think I could hang with anyone if I had the chance, probably.
 
subdude1974 said:
i just keep posting. this is crazy. how old is the sport of golf. founded in the 1700's. It is playes ion every country, continent and peovince in the world. I have seen people playing golf in Antarctica. How many football games have been played there? Or how bout the moon? Any footballs thrown up there? Dont think so. And more money, I dont think so. Who are the highest paid athletes. Overall, 3 of the top 10 are golfers. Football players arent even in the top 20. Hell Tiget and Phil made more last year than Manning, Favre, Manning, Brady. ladanian, (if not in jail)Vick, and probably next top 5 paid football players all together. Just between Phil and Tiger you are talking over 300 million. Nice ring to it huh. Yes. 300 million. you may want to rethink your posts before you know what you are talking about. and yes, 300 million. :o
oh, you meant soccer. Well step on up. You name the top 10 in soccer in the world and add up what they make and see. I needed a goof laugh. Thanks.
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Soccer/football is the biggest sport in the world. It's not even debatable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_World_Cup

No other sporting competition on earth inspires such fanaticism, devotion. It's akin to religion in some countries. The game is played everywhere. In schools, parks, ghettos, indoors. We in the USA cannot even begin to comprehend what this game means to most countries. Take your average, passionate American football fan and multiply that passion by 100.

And I'm not someone who is passionate about the game, grew up playing it, etc. But the truth is the truth. Golf is nowhere near the level of football when talking about fandom. If you broadcasted the Masters or British Open on the same day as the World Cup, we in the US would probably be 95% of the viewership.
 
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subdude1974 said:
In any game. I have shot 62 competitively and have had 5 course records that I can remember. Am I better than 90% of the golfing world(when I was playing all the time), probably. Am I even in the realm of Tiger or Phil, hell no. I have run 7 in a row in 9. All I am saying is pool is not as difficult to get great at as golf. I love both. I play pool mainly now. I enjoy playing golf with my father and brothers but that is about it. DO I wish I could play pool 6 days a week.(Gotta have 1 ffor my wife:)) yes. Do I think I could hang with anyone if I had the chance, probably.
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I'm not really qualified, since I'm barely getting back into pool after a long layoff, and when I was an aspiring player in my teens, I didn't hang out all the time, travel the road, or sweat big action. My parents wouldn't have that, but a good A player or a shortstop is not in the same realm as an Efren, Earl, Mosconi, SVB, Archer. Their TV games are not indicative of their real talent.

If what you mean by "hang with anyone" is that you believe you can give SVB a close challenge in long race or an ahead set playing even, I find it hard to believe you're that good. Please don't take any offense, but that is a bold statement. However, if you're talking a short race to 7 or something, it's indeed possible for a B player to get hot, get a few rolls, and upset someone like SVB. So I understand you from that standpoint.
 
midnightpulp said:
I'm not really qualified, since I'm barely getting back into pool after a long layoff, and when I was an aspiring player in my teens, I didn't hang out all the time, travel the road, or sweat big action. My parents wouldn't have that, but a good A player or a shortstop is not in the same realm as an Efren, Earl, Mosconi, SVB, Archer. Their TV games are not indicative of their real talent.

If what you mean by "hang with anyone" is that you believe you can give SVB a close challenge in long race or an ahead set playing even, I find it hard to believe you're that good. Please don't take any offense, but that is a bold statement. However, if you're talking a short race to 7 or something, it's indeed possible for a B player to get hot, get a few rolls, and upset someone like SVB. So I understand you from that standpoint.
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Please, dont misinterpret what I have said. I am not saying I am even close to those guys. I play 1 day a week for a couple of hours at a time. These guys that is what they do. I was saying if I had the oppurtunity to do this as they do, all the time then they couldnt just walk all over me. That is my point. If you want to prove me wrong, give me $500,000 so I can quit my job and not have to put food on the table for my daughter and I will try and prove you wrong. And I didnt say beat them, I said hang. Do I agree that if you work hard enough at something you can be great at it, yes. Otherwise I would not have made that comment.
 
midnightpulp said:
Soccer/football is the biggest sport in the world. It's not even debatable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_World_Cup

No other sporting competition on earth inspires such fanaticism, devotion. It's akin to religion in some countries. The game is played everywhere. In schools, parks, ghettos, indoors. We in the USA cannot even begin to comprehend what this game means to most countries. Take your average, passionate American football fan and multiply that passion by 100.

And I'm not someone who is passionate about the game, grew up playing it, etc. But the truth is the truth. Golf is nowhere near the level of football when talking about fandom. If you broadcasted the Masters or British Open on the same day as the World Cup, we in the US would probably be 95% of the viewership.
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As far as the World Cup goes,noone,including myself, has said that the the Masters was bigger than the World Cup. That would be a ridiculous comment. But to think that more people play soccer than golf is a pure idiotic comment. How many 50 year olds do you see playing soccer? 60's? 70's? 40's? Golf is a game that you can play recreationally for your entire life. So is golf a more played sport worldwide, you are damn skippy. And here is a question,outside of the World Cup, how often do you see NATIONALLY TELEVISED soccer games? but yet week in and week out, there is a golf tournament on 4 days of the week. So before you start posting threads about how much bigger soccer is than golf, you really need to do a little more research on the fact. And all soccer "fandom" comes out only during the World Cup. And to say soccer is played more place is even funnier. Sorry to burst your bubble but I think you have the not close part on the wronmg side of the equation.:)
 
subdude1974 said:
As far as the World Cup goes,noone,including myself, has said that the the Masters was bigger than the World Cup. That would be a ridiculous comment. But to think that more people play soccer than golf is a pure idiotic comment. How many 50 year olds do you see playing soccer? 60's? 70's? 40's? Golf is a game that you can play recreationally for your entire life. So is golf a more played sport worldwide, you are damn skippy. And here is a question,outside of the World Cup, how often do you see NATIONALLY TELEVISED soccer games? but yet week in and week out, there is a golf tournament on 4 days of the week. So before you start posting threads about how much bigger soccer is than golf, you really need to do a little more research on the fact. And all soccer "fandom" comes out only during the World Cup. And to say soccer is played more place is even funnier. Sorry to burst your bubble but I think you have the not close part on the wronmg side of the equation.:)
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You're mistaking participation with fandom. Not sure how many people play Golf regularly or Soccer, but it's not even a debatable fact that Soccer has a much larger fanbase, thus it's the bigger sport.

As far as Nationally Televised Soccer Matches, there's not a lot, in OUR country. And as far as the fandom, it remains constant even when the Cup is not active. There's Leagues, other world tournaments, etc, that these fans are damn near insane about. Our European friends will chime in and give better insight. On a world wide scale, there is Football/Soccer and everything else. Nothing is even a close second.

A 60 year old Brazilan may like to play Golf a few times a week, probably tunes into the PGA via satallite, takes lessons, but odds are his passion will be about soccer, even if he's never played a day in his life. And this person can be English, Irish, Italian, Mexican, German.
 
subdude1974 said:
As far as the World Cup goes,noone,including myself, has said that the the Masters was bigger than the World Cup. That would be a ridiculous comment. But to think that more people play soccer than golf is a pure idiotic comment. How many 50 year olds do you see playing soccer? 60's? 70's? 40's? Golf is a game that you can play recreationally for your entire life. So is golf a more played sport worldwide, you are damn skippy. And here is a question,outside of the World Cup, how often do you see NATIONALLY TELEVISED soccer games? but yet week in and week out, there is a golf tournament on 4 days of the week. So before you start posting threads about how much bigger soccer is than golf, you really need to do a little more research on the fact. And all soccer "fandom" comes out only during the World Cup. And to say soccer is played more place is even funnier. Sorry to burst your bubble but I think you have the not close part on the wronmg side of the equation.:)
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Here's a link that might be useful:

"Football (soccer) is the most popular sport played today. The term soccer first appeared in the 19th century as for Association Football, and is used in the United States commonly, but the term football is used by the F?d?ration Internationale de Football Association (FIFA), the sport?s world governing body and by most of English speakers throughout the world.

A survey in 2001 by FIFA 2001 showed more than 240 million people play the sport of football in over 200 countries across almost every part of the globe. Because of this some have named football the world?s favorite pastime, but instead we are naming football the world?s most popular sport!"

http://most-popular.net/sport-played-world
 
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