Good shot or foul?

Good shot or foul?

  • Good

    Votes: 48 77.4%
  • Foul

    Votes: 14 22.6%

  • Total voters
    62

arps

tirador (ng pansit)
Silver Member
I would like to share this video, from the Bilyarista group in the Philippines. It's from a 15-ball rotation money match. Referee decided that it was a foul. But the video has hundreds of opposing comments in our forum (it had to be locked). I'd like to know what AZB has to say. Please vote in the poll.

*My apologies for the low-res video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWp1OND3bXM
 
Last edited:

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
It's subtle, but looking frame-by-frame the 11 moves a tiny but just visible amount an instant before the 13. The CB's carom angle off the 13 is also consistent with that.

Good rail-first hit.

pj
chgo
 

Luxury

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I could only tell it was good after going frame by frame


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Kobachi

Scarred but Smarter
I’m not so sure. (Only using my phone). Frame by frame I’m seeing the 13 move before the 11 starts to drop. I also see the top of the rail compress...is it possible the 11 is against the face of the pocket, on the edge of dropping, and the rail compression gives it just enough to topple over?

-back to my grassy knoll.
 

gregcantrall

Center Ball
Silver Member
I think it was good. If I was refereeing I would have to be sure to call foul and I don’t see how he could be sure.
 

jimmyg

Mook! What's a Mook?
Silver Member
I watched it a half dozen times...still not 100% sure either way. In tennis, when the line call is close enough to be uncertain, the call is good.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I don't see how the cue ball could possibly hit the rail, the 13 and then the 11 and go directly up the table at speed after hitting the 11 very, very softly.

Maybe the 11 dropped on its own, as mentioned above, but I would have to call it good after seeing the video.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I watched it a half dozen times...still not 100% sure either way. In tennis, when the line call is close enough to be uncertain, the call is good.
Think about how the cue ball would have to move to carom from the 13 to the 11. If it moved back to the 11 after the hit on the 13, it's never going to go up the table.
 

Skratch

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I looked frame by frame and the 11ball didn't move until well after contact with the 12 ball. I think the 11ball was so close to the lip of the pocket that the vibration set it off. OR, that compression of the rail prior to contact pushed it over. At least thats how it looks like to me.
 

jimmyg

Mook! What's a Mook?
Silver Member
Think about how the cue ball would have to move to carom from the 13 to the 11. If it moved back to the 11 after the hit on the 13, it's never going to go up the table.

I definitely acknowledge the logic of that, Bob, it was the reason that I replayed the video a half dozen times...trying to reconcile my eyes with what my mind was telling me. Still couldn't actually see it.
 

Celophanewrap

Call me Grace
Silver Member
The 11 definitely moves first, I can only surmise that it’s because it got hit first but from
that view it’s tough to tell. If it were my call I’d have to call it good
 

arps

tirador (ng pansit)
Silver Member
by the way guys, it's 11 and 12 (not 13). theyre using the Aramith Pro TV set

 

erhino41

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It looks to me, in slo-mo, it probably was the contact with the rail then sent enough energy to the 11 to get it to teeter, gravity did the rest. The cue ball had speed, any hit on the 11 would have had it move a little faster than that.

Having said that, at full speed, and given the cue balls direction of travel after contact, I would have to call a good hit. By the eye test the worst possible conclusion is concurrent contact which should go to the shooter.

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MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here’s my slow motion look.

https://youtu.be/R54gJZO561I

It appears initially that the 12 moved first. Then you realize the 12 is hit full but any contact with the 11 is very thin. So it’s clear the 12 will move much faster than the 11. I believe the frame rate makes this appear that the 12 moves first because it moves more visibly when advancing a single frame. It wasn’t shot with a true high speed camera.

When rocking the video back and forth, you start to notice the movement of the 11 is more continuous and less perceptible in a single frame.

Of course hitting the 12 first then the 11 appears impossible, especially looking at the cueball path afterwards.

Rail compression is an interesting thought. The 11 looks like it moves in the direction the cueball would send it, not in the direction the rail would send it. But if it was a hanger, at that speed the lip of the pocket and gravity might influence the 11 path more that it’s initial vector. So I consider that theory very plausible.

Either way if it is debatable in slow-mo, I’d always give it to the shooter.


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