Gorilla glue

Mr Hoppe

Mr Hoppe

Sawdust maker
Silver Member
I'm planning to use gorilla glue on a cored forearm for the first time. Since it varies depending on which adhesive you are using, can anyone who uses Gorilla tell me what they allow for the glue annulus? i.e. the amount of space you allow for the glue to occupy.
Thanks.
Mr H
 
annulus=

1- The figure bounded by and containing the area between two concentric circles.
2- A ringlike figure, part, structure, or marking, such as a growth ring

I won't suggest a glue annulus, but I did learn a new word.
 
JBCustomCues said:
I use a .750 gun core with a .755 gun drill
Click to expand...

Thanks Joe. Frankly, I was concerned that at a closer tollerance like this, I wouldn't be able to get a good coating on the piece. GG is not that thin. At the same time, I want to keep a pretty tight tollerance because this glue is designed to have the pieces in full contact with each other and under clamping pressure... It is not designed to fill a gap. Maybe .005" total annulus and a groove the length of the dowel is the right combination for me?
Thanks again.
Mr H
 
For the gorilla glue to set, it requires moisture.Just don't have the wood too dry, but don't wet it either. If you wet it, chances are it will start to set before you have it assembled.
With a .020 inch gap, the test piece I did, the glue had foamed, and was not as strong as the .005 inch gap.
I coat the dowel first and then use a stick with blob on the end to coat the inside of the piece to join.
Like what has been said before , once you start assmebling, don't stop for anything.
Neil
 
I didn't feel there was much to add to this thread, but I got a PM asking me to post something on it, so here goes:
I only allow a few thousandths between the dowel and core size. If the dowel slips through dry easily then it is enough. I also cut grooves around the coring dowel about every 1 inch or so to hole some more glue. Sometimes instead of the grooves I take a triangle thread file and lay it on the dowel in the lathe and cut a spiral line up the cue. I put the Gorilla glue on the dowel itself and not in the core. I ball up a wet paper towel and shove it through the core to moisten it. Then I run the coring dowel through read quick. If you stop half way it can freeze and ruin both pieces. Also I plug both center holes in the ends of the coring dowel with little balls of paper towel so I preserve the centers. Then I clean the ends off and remove them before the glue dries. I used to be pretty negative about coring, but it has caused less problems than I thought it would, so I do some coring now myself.
 
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cueman said:
I didn't feel there was much to add to this thread, but I got a PM asking me to post something on it, so here goes:
I only allow a few thousandths between the dowel and core size. If the dowel slips through dry easily then it is enough. I also cut grooves around the coring dowel about every 1 inch or so to hole some more glue. Sometimes instead of the grooves I take a triangle thread file and lay it on the dowel in the lathe and cut a spiral line up the cue. I put the Gorilla glue on the dowel itself and not in the core. I ball up a wet paper towel and shove it through the core to moisten it. Then I run the coring dowel through read quick. If you stop half way it can freeze and ruin both pieces. Also I plug both center holes in the ends of the coring dowel with little balls of paper towel so I preserve the centers. Then I clean the ends off and remove them before the glue dries. I used to be pretty negative about coring, but it has caused less problems than I thought it would, so I do some coring now myself.
Click to expand...
That's pretty much the way I do it, except, I run the glue down the bore also, down on the 'exit' side, about halfway down so as the dowel comes thru, it will have more glue for the rest of the journey. Just my way.....
I also setup my tall drill press with a delrin plug and wax paper so if the core gets stuck, I can use it as a press to finish inserting it. I only had to do this once, but it worked well.
Dave
 
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You get more glue with more groove lines, but it does weaken the dowel slightly. So I go with less groove lines.
 
Glue grooves

spliced said:
What is the best way to do grooves in the dowel?

This cuemakers site shows one relief groove every inch:
Not sure which method works best, maybe it depends on the type of glue used?
Click to expand...

This is the method I use regardless of the glue type.
 
spliced said:
What is the best way to do grooves in the dowel?

This cuemakers site shows one relief groove every inch:

http://www.dzcues.com/images/core 04.jpg
Click to expand...

Actually, they are 1/2" apart. Hard to see in this pic but there are also 3 grooves running the length of the core. All grooves are the same depth - .010/.015, depending on the nearest round number on my dial.

I'm not saying this is the best way but it works well for me.
 
Glue vs. Epoxy for Dowels

Hi,

By putting in the v groves with a file on your dowel you create a deeper area that engineers refer to as a keyway. These keyways act to secure or anchor a structural media ie. concrete, grout, chemical grout, or in this case epoxy to the interface material wood. The keyways are also a design feature to prevent lateral movements down the road after set and curing has occurred.

Since epoxies have a structural component whereby their tensile strength and ductility are much higher than woods used in cue building, it seems to me that when using epoxy you would want to put in the groves to increase the total surface area of the structural interface by creating these keyways. Since the set time is not instantaneous as with the gorilla glue, you have the luxury of time and patience on your side.

I agree with Chris that when using gorilla glue that these groves may not be as important and you want the fit to be as tight as possible without the part getting stuck during the install. Wood glues are more of a bonding agent rather than a structural component. Their job is to bond. The tighter the fit you have the better in this application.

Mr. H is right, he states that wood glue is designed to be clamped. I think the reason that cue makers can use gorilla glue in this application is due to the fact that there is an expansion coefficient that occurs with gorilla glue with water as a catalyst. (Not sure about this, just a guess as I have not researched the glue or called the company for tech support)

I know that many top cue makers use gorilla glue and it has been time tested. The trick seems to be how much moisture and how close a fit. Only experience will be the teacher. I was messing around with a tight fit dowel that I wanted to do with gorilla glue and my dowel got stuck in there when I test fired it without the glue. Too much moisture created swelling and the dimensions changed. This is a tricky operation, so all posts that say do it fast should be taken as serious as a heart attack.

For the record, I talked to Joe Barringer about this and he told me his gap was .002. When I asked him, his answer was fast and confident without hesitation. He does a ton of cores and I believe he knows as much about this as any living human.

I think the west system 105 / 207 is the way to go if you want to use the epoxy. If have used G-5 and had 2 finished cues come up with a buzz from under the handle. I think the G-5 is too viscous and it leaves pockets during the install.

I use west system and like Mr. H want to try gorilla glue and thank everyone here for sharing.

Rick Geschrey
 
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Hi Rick ,you and i know .002 on 12 plus inches of core does'ent work, to tite it hangs up all the time need .006 plus .even if you could keep things tite, ''with wood'' useing epoxy you still will get air gaps even if you butter both surfaces ,out of 10 you my have 8 good ones ,and i don't want a cue that might buzz. i've taped on it with my knuckle and heard hollow spots. to sum this up i use gorilla glue it gap fills , you go through a lot of epoxy coring this will get exspenive gorilla glue goes alot farther, and is vary strong . darrin
 
Thanks Darrin

Hi Darrin,

Thanks for your insight. I want to use the gorilla glue and need to be confident with the right gap info. I know you keep your Clausing Lathe very tight and have an awesome gun drill and always repeat your engineering tolerances. Hills Cues are known for their hit and playability and I will be confident with your suggestion as I know how much thought and effort you put into process control.

There are at least 50 Hills Cues owned by league members and customers at my pool hall and I have never heard of one cue that has a buzz. Everyone who owns one of your cues loves the hit.

Having the buzz in a finished cue is no fun.

Thanks,

Rick
 
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