Jump cues make the game less interesting to watch. In gambling matches the rules are whatever the players agree to but in tournaments the jump cue should be banned. If they can jump with the full cue then go for it but no gimmick cue.
Gorst vs Bergman
- Thread starter RunEmOut08
- Start date
Matchroom will never ban them, because they want to expand the viewing market and, like it or not, average people (non-pool players and occasional pool players) love jump shots. Kick shots are boring to them, jump shots are exciting and interesting to watch to them.
Some of the highlights of Bergman vs Gorst day #1
Day # 2
Day # 2
That's been DCC's rule from jump-street, pardon the pun. I like it. Efren beat the world's ass for a LONG time and afaik he never had the need for a jump cue or a jump shot for that matter.
I've been heavily 'pro' jump cue on the forum, but I will admit Gorst makes it look so pedestrian that it loses luster. That said, I think the masses here don't realize the effort Gorst puts into that part of his game. Yes a short stick makes it easy to get the ball in the air. What he is doing is just as much out of reach of the Joe Blow player as running consecutive racks.
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And don't forget marketing. If they ban jump cues, no one will buy it, and it's pretty big marketplace
Ya know it's funny you say that... There's another member on the forum that pops up all the time the accu-stats match viewing audience, and I noticed something he did. At the risk at putting words in his mouth, he also is 'anti-jump stick', and I believe has said it doesn't add anything to the game. However in this video, I noted two things. First the lack of wonder when he witnessed a player make successful contact while playing a 1 rail kick. ...and more notably, the big smile and look of amazement when the opponent made a pretty nice jump shot.
The above was worthy of capturing for sake of future evidence, but who has the time
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When it comes to jump cues...it's pretty simple: it's not the players to establish the rules...they just follow the rules...but that is the case when it comes to tournaments.
So as this one is an action match where the players could negotiate all the details before the action started...well they could talk about this. At least it was obvious for me beforehand that Fedor's ability with jump cue is going to be a headache for Justin who moves so good.
But once the action started it is too late to complain.
I remember the thread about this action match where the posters could give their opinion about the chances in this match and I remember one poster (who was in minority) who was pretty sure about Justin's better chances and now this argument about using a jump cue seems to be a great excuse...I guess
It was claimed here that those jump shots are so bad... easy and so on and should be banned.
For me the major problem is in the very construction of the game...meaning the position of the balls offers better possibilities to play a good safety ...you perform a great one ...and here comes the jump cue and the worst thing happens quite often the possibility of some lucky rolls the jumping player may get after performing a poor shot but ok when it comes to the rules. Of course it may happen after kicking but in my opinion this game was much better designed for that kind of playing and that is what amazes when watching snooker on that 12 ft table without any diamonds on the rails and so on and how accurate those cueists when it comes to playing off the cushion and I don't imagine snooker functionaries changing the rule when it comes to jumping because it is simply against how the game was designed...
But in american pool where the table conditions (table size, pockets size and so on) are easier comparing to any other billiard game with pockets those who establish the rules decided this game is much better with all those "fancy stuff" and here we go those big production companies who "raised this game on another level" and offer you those "revolutional" jump and break cues for $$$ and most if not all the top pros are what?...promoting certain manufacturer.
So good luck expecting those jump cues are banned in a near future. It won't happen till the whole sport is organized differently (imo).
In my opinion the only time jump cue could be involved in rotation game is immediately after the break and when the push out was played.
And finally it is not by chance Fedor might be one of the best jumpers in the world. If the jump cues are banned or jumping is not allowed I believe it is very likely we could see him becoming one of the best in other areas of the game where he might be still behind some other top players. He's a clever young guy and seems to enjoy some new challenges.
So as this one is an action match where the players could negotiate all the details before the action started...well they could talk about this. At least it was obvious for me beforehand that Fedor's ability with jump cue is going to be a headache for Justin who moves so good.
But once the action started it is too late to complain.
I remember the thread about this action match where the posters could give their opinion about the chances in this match and I remember one poster (who was in minority) who was pretty sure about Justin's better chances and now this argument about using a jump cue seems to be a great excuse...I guess
It was claimed here that those jump shots are so bad... easy and so on and should be banned.
For me the major problem is in the very construction of the game...meaning the position of the balls offers better possibilities to play a good safety ...you perform a great one ...and here comes the jump cue and the worst thing happens quite often the possibility of some lucky rolls the jumping player may get after performing a poor shot but ok when it comes to the rules. Of course it may happen after kicking but in my opinion this game was much better designed for that kind of playing and that is what amazes when watching snooker on that 12 ft table without any diamonds on the rails and so on and how accurate those cueists when it comes to playing off the cushion and I don't imagine snooker functionaries changing the rule when it comes to jumping because it is simply against how the game was designed...
But in american pool where the table conditions (table size, pockets size and so on) are easier comparing to any other billiard game with pockets those who establish the rules decided this game is much better with all those "fancy stuff" and here we go those big production companies who "raised this game on another level" and offer you those "revolutional" jump and break cues for $$$ and most if not all the top pros are what?...promoting certain manufacturer.
So good luck expecting those jump cues are banned in a near future. It won't happen till the whole sport is organized differently (imo).
In my opinion the only time jump cue could be involved in rotation game is immediately after the break and when the push out was played.
And finally it is not by chance Fedor might be one of the best jumpers in the world. If the jump cues are banned or jumping is not allowed I believe it is very likely we could see him becoming one of the best in other areas of the game where he might be still behind some other top players. He's a clever young guy and seems to enjoy some new challenges
.
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Yes, no doubt. Justin had to have an heroic 9 games in a row just to be down by 22.
Ironically, the flyer photo is highlighting Justin Bergman jumping a ball.When it comes to jump cues...it's pretty simple: it's not the players to establish the rules...they just follow the rules...but that is the case when it comes to tournaments.
So as this one is an action match where the players could negotiate all the details before the action started...well they could talk about this. At least it was obvious for me beforehand that Fedor's ability with jump cue is going to be a headache for Justin who moves so good.
But once the action started it is too late to complain.
I remember the thread about this action match where the posters could give their opinion about the chances in this match and I remember one poster (who was in minority) who was pretty sure about Justin's better chances and now this argument about using a jump cue seems to be a great excuse...I guess
It was claimed here that those jump shots are so bad... easy and so on and should be banned.
For me the major problem is in the very construction of the game...meaning the position of the balls offers better possibilities to play a good safety ...you perform a great one ...and here comes the jump cue and the worst thing happens quite often the possibility of some lucky rolls the jumping player may get after performing a poor shot but ok when it comes to the rules. Of course it may happen after kicking but in my opinion this game was much better designed for that kind of playing and that is what amazes when watching snooker on that 12 ft table without any diamonds on the rails and so on and how accurate those cueists when it comes to playing off the cushion and I don't imagine snooker functionaries changing the rule when it comes to jumping because it is simply against how the game was designed...
But in american pool where the table conditions (table size, pockets size and so on) are easier comparing to any other billiard game with pockets those who establish the rules decided this game is much better with all those "fancy stuff" and here we go those big production companies who "raised this game on another level" and offer you those "revolutional" jump and break cues for $$$ and most if not all the top pros are what?...promoting certain manufacturer.
So good luck expecting those jump cues are banned in a near future. It won't happen till the whole sport is organized differently (imo).
In my opinion the only time jump cue could be involved in rotation game is immediately after the break and when the push out was played.
And finally it is not by chance Fedor might be one of the best jumpers in the world. If the jump cues are banned or jumping is not allowed I believe it is very likely we could see him becoming one of the best in other areas of the game where he might be still behind some other top players. He's a clever young guy and seems to enjoy some new challenges
That could be part of it but I suspect cuemakers also play a role. Instead of selling a guy one cue they can sell him a cue and a half. It's possible they push quietly behind the scenes for jump cues.
It's a great picture I used for the flyer.
Erwin Dionisio is a great photographer
Check out some of his amazing pool related images @ Edionisio
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I guess this comes down to your definition of a 'great' safety. In my books that's a successful shot that forces your opponent to attempt something they're either uncomfortable with, and/or has extremely low % of success....
Like all things subjective in this game, 'great' is in the eyes of the beholder.
I was tableside yesterday watching live. I could not hear what the commentators said but I have my own opinions. Gorst was breaking the 1 ball in the left side pocket very consitently and placing the 2 on the bottom of the rack so it went 3 rails to the upper left side of the table, usually between the cueball & side or corner pocket. Bergman was playing the 1 in the right side pocket, but he was not as accurate. I included a couple videos on my FB page: https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=4228833173817063&set=a.244722245561529 Aside from that, they both occasionally hooked themselves, but Gorst played jump shots as consistent as open shots. And Gorst played shape as though they were open shots. Both played world class pool, but Gorst took the breaks and his jumps to another level.
What Fedor does with that jump cue isn’t jet beyond Joe Blow. It’s beyond pretty much everybody else too. Someone predicted this, posted a vid of Fedor and him practicing with a jump drill.
Ok
To tell the truth all this story about jump cues...it is definitely not the biggest issue in this sport. Take them away and it won't be the problem for the best players I believe.
Once jump cues became a common part of the game those safeties that were great or really good before appeared not as good to say at least. Ok, I should not have called it great because the opponent could not jump then. My major point was that somebody like Fedor who is no surprisingly is so good when it comes to jump shots is not the best example of when it is not so fair during the game. He actually serves very well giving a good image for the kids because watching him performing those shots is quite entertaining for them.
To tell the truth all this story about jump cues...it is definitely not the biggest issue in this sport. Take them away and it won't be the problem for the best players I believe.
Jump cues are here to stay. Selling them is big business and Predator, the title sponsor of the Matchroom's Predator Championship League event, probably sells more of them than anyone else. Matchroom would be foolish to bar the use of them. I have always thought they cheapen the game and take some of the skill out, but I cannot imagine a scenario in which they just plain go away. I've always favored allowing jump cues only on the first shot of an inning, meaning you must either jump with your playing cue or kick if you snooker yourself.
I have been watching this match since the beginning and I can only see one weakness in Fedor's game (I say weakness only in that it is not up to the level of the rest of his game, which is other-worldly), and that is, oddly, one-rail kicks. He has failed to make legal contact on several that I would consider less than challenging for any pro. This, of course, brings his game down about one nano-level.
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Did anyone follow Bergman's complaints on facebook about the match? Was he complaining about the three point break rule or pattern racking?