Got 3 hours??? An Idea.....

[Blue Hog ridr]

Middle of July and you'd think it was Autumn. If it isn't too windy to take the boat out fishing, I will re watch the video at some point this weekend.

Other than the long video, Tor has broken many of the points up into individual shorter segments.

We have people ask all the time which video do they need to watch

Tor's vids start at the beginner level but doesn't dwell too much on basics.

I have quite a few vids but haven't found an easier way to Bank or Kick until I watched his.

Other than many more complex mini lessons, the vids also contain little helpful tips that you can retain and take with you when you go out, just little tid bits that require very little practice other than to remember what he told you.

For example, How to shoot frozen rail balls with more accuracy. Thats something that you can watch in 2 minutes and retain easily. The vids are filled with little mini tips such as that.

 

[One Pocket John]

Good Idea Chris

Great idea Chris.

CSI along with Dr. Cue also has a great series out.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=CSI+Presents+Dr.Cue

A lot of good info there.

I also was a 14 Day participant ( only 4 days ). My instruction was based around one pocket.

Tor is a very mild mannered instructor and I enjoyed his knowledge and willingness to help me play better.

By the way, I have all of his videos and take his teachings to my table everyday. At $8.99 each you can't go wrong.

For my play the Kicking video was a real eye opener. I love that video. :smile:
http://www.zerox-billiards.com/pool-lessons-kicking-tips-secrets-of-pool.html

I'm in. I have quite a collection of instructional DVD's

Thanks for posting.

John

 

[captainjko]

Tor will be here with me tomorrow. He will be here for 7 days and maybe more if he can. I will post when I can on this. I have watched his videos on youtube and have downloaded the ones on his site. I am very excited about this opportunity he has given me and plan on taking in sooooooo much info.

Kirk

 

[iusedtoberich]

Tor Stroke Drill

Here is Tor's stroke drill. Has anyone done the whole thing? Before invesing the time, did you decide to change your stroke or keep your current methodology? For example, elbow drop, stance, eye pattern, etc. In other words, if one is going to invest much time on this drill, how should one process which technique to use in their own version?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm-VDuGzJS4#t=1953

32:30 is the time stamp.

 

[krupa]

I would be interested in participating. I already have a couple questions about the video but hadn't thought about starting a thread.

I will kick it off with this one. About a closed bridge, he shows a loose loop whereas most instructors feel the shaft should be snug inside the bridge. Possible reasons for the difference? I am not sure how his closed bridge is much different from an open bridge because it isn't tight.

I see a lot of beginning players play with a loose closed bridge like he shows and you can see the shaft move all over the place during their practice strokes.

IMO, a low player doesn't gain anything with this closed bridge and since he is also obstructing part of the cue ball with his index finger, he's got a net loss. On the other hand, with a snug closed bridge, that low player may be obstructing part of the cue ball, but he's gaining some control over the cue which makes it at least a wash if not a net gain.

 

[Colonel]

:yeah:The area on safety play is excellent. It has always amazed me how little time and thought most players put into their safety games. He has a great ability to explain the thought process that goes into his choices. Also the tip how to narrow the angle of your banks by pulling your arm into your body is something that was shown to me over 25 years ago but I've never seen anyone teach that point anywhere except for my mentor, This tip is invaluable, especially playing one pocket

 

[One Pocket John]

Here is Tor's stroke drill. Has anyone done the whole thing? Before invesing the time, did you decide to change your stroke or keep your current methodology? For example, elbow drop, stance, eye pattern, etc. In other words, if one is going to invest much time on this drill, how should one process which technique to use in their own version?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm-VDuGzJS4#t=1953

32:30 is the time stamp.

There is a lot more going on with this drill than is shown/explained in the video. What is not pointed out is:
1. The cue has to be as level as possible.
2. The QB is struck with Pro-High. Very close to the miss cue point.
3. You roll the QB with very little to no slide. It takes very little effort to roll the QB.

I had to change my entire stance (PSR) in order to achieve a horizontal upper arm so that I could deliver a level cue.

To put the whole PSR (Pre-Shot-Routine) together you may want to purchase Mark Wilson's book and view CSI's series with Dr. Cue. He explains how to deliver a straight stroke. (The plum bob effect)

Have fun.

John

 

[vrrdriver]

ill watch it again as I try to refinish the rails on my table...

 

[The Renfro]

OK I am only an hour in and I have to say for the most part the material is pretty solid... The one thing I picked up on was mentioned earlier and that was that TOR has a very very loose closed bridge... I would have judged it to me very weak compared to most closed bridges I have seen on professional players... However after making it further in and seeing his stroke drill idea I think he is really using an open bridge and the loose loop just allows control of the shaft as the tip end up following thru in contact with the tabe and forces the shaft up off of the open bridge....

This has me thinking... Is a tight bridge more important than follow thru?? I know a tight bridge should be more accurate on striking the cueball where you mean to but if the stroke is dead straight would the follow thru not be more important??

Follow thru has been discussed at length with the main premise being that the cueball has no idea if you followed thru or not... But most good players have good follow thru and they move the cueball effortlessly....

As far as open bridge and accuracy most snooker players tend to use the open bridge for the majority of their shots...

I may loosen my bridge back up tonight and see whats going on in my follow thru... I used to always draw lines on the table and could actually tell what was going on by looking at the lines... Sometimes they would tail left or right and I knew I was getting lazy with my PSR and stance... Since I worked on my bridges my follow thru is retracted and I am no longer drawing lines.......

Will rewatch the first hour and more of the video and see what else I see that stands out... One thing I think is important is getting down on the shot line properly and Tor talks about it but doesn't give much in the way of how to do it... I may ask geno if I can share an old drill he uses and I'll share a trick I use... I just want to rewatch it again and stick with the follow thru and bridge discussion for awhile and see what everyone thinks on that subject before hitting a 2nd topic........

Chris

 

[The Renfro]

There is a lot more going on with this drill than is shown/explained in the video. What is not pointed out is:
1. The cue has to be as level as possible.
2. The QB is struck with Pro-High. Very close to the miss cue point.
3. You roll the QB with very little to no slide. It takes very little effort to roll the QB.

I had to change my entire stance (PSR) in order to achieve a horizontal upper arm so that I could deliver a level cue.

To put the whole PSR (Pre-Shot-Routine) together you may want to purchase Mark Wilson's book and view CSI's series with Dr. Cue. He explains how to deliver a straight stroke. (The plum bob effect)

Have fun.



John

That drill was what had me looking at bridges and their relationship to follow thru... Thanks for providing the start time link....

 

[sixpack]

Okay I watched most of it. First of all, macguy is right there is a lot of information on there. Most of it was review/refresh for me. Most of it I learned by trial and error so I want to stress to people that are less experienced that going through the information in the video step-by-step and really understanding each and every point will improve your game much, much faster than I did. And don't skimp on the reps. If he says to do the stroke drill 2000 times without playing. Then that's what you should do. I would also recommend doing it 10 or so times before each session just to make sure your stroke is where you want it to be each time. That gives you a baseline.

I particularly thought the safety scenarios section was extremely good. Excellent in fact.

The game situations, again, were things that I learned the hard way (and very expensively too I might add). So practice those and learn to recognize them and you will win a lot more matches.

I'm going to head to the pool hall and just freshen up on some of the things he talked about.

 

[Colonel]

OK I am only an hour in and I have to say for the most part the material is pretty solid... The one thing I picked up on was mentioned earlier and that was that TOR has a very very loose closed bridge... I would have judged it to me very weak compared to most closed bridges I have seen on professional players... However after making it further in and seeing his stroke drill idea I think he is really using an open bridge and the loose loop just allows control of the shaft as the tip end up following thru in contact with the tabe and forces the shaft up off of the open bridge....

This has me thinking... Is a tight bridge more important than follow thru?? I know a tight bridge should be more accurate on striking the cueball where you mean to but if the stroke is dead straight would the follow thru not be more important??

Follow thru has been discussed at length with the main premise being that the cueball has no idea if you followed thru or not... But most good players have good follow thru and they move the cueball effortlessly....

As far as open bridge and accuracy most snooker players tend to use the open bridge for the majority of their shots...

I may loosen my bridge back up tonight and see whats going on in my follow thru... I used to always draw lines on the table and could actually tell what was going on by looking at the lines... Sometimes they would tail left or right and I knew I was getting lazy with my PSR and stance... Since I worked on my bridges my follow thru is retracted and I am no longer drawing lines.......

Will rewatch the first hour and more of the video and see what else I see that stands out... One thing I think is important is getting down on the shot line properly and Tor talks about it but doesn't give much in the way of how to do it... I may ask geno if I can share an old drill he uses and I'll share a trick I use... I just want to rewatch it again and stick with the follow thru and bridge discussion for awhile and see what everyone thinks on that subject before hitting a 2nd topic........

Chris

You're right much has been said in this forum about follow through, the ball is gone so it doesn't matter yada yada. It's about accelerating your stroke through the ball, this is what's critical and IMO is one of the most important factors to move the ball effortlessly.

 

[iusedtoberich]

There is a lot more going on with this drill than is shown/explained in the video. What is not pointed out is:
1. The cue has to be as level as possible.
2. The QB is struck with Pro-High. Very close to the miss cue point.
3. You roll the QB with very little to no slide. It takes very little effort to roll the QB.

I had to change my entire stance (PSR) in order to achieve a horizontal upper arm so that I could deliver a level cue.

To put the whole PSR (Pre-Shot-Routine) together you may want to purchase Mark Wilson's book and view CSI's series with Dr. Cue. He explains how to deliver a straight stroke. (The plum bob effect)

Have fun.

John

Thanks John. Were your #1 to #3 points above from Tor in person? In the video he advocates hitting different spins and different speeds.

We've all done the CB up and down table and return to our tip. I can do it fairly reliably, and I'm a C+ player. But in actual game play, my stroke breaks down with real shots. Thats one reason I'm leaning to when doing the 2000 to 3000 stroke drills, is to do multiple variations, fast, medium, lag speed, high, low, low outside, etc. All combinations. And even aim towards different parts of the pocket (to fix when the eye plays tricks on you). In my opinion, this method makes more sense than using the same exact method on all of the shots.

 

[BeiberLvr]

Personally I found that doing Tor's stroke drill in conjunction with other stroke drills provided better results.

I like to do the following to warm up.

Tor's Drill (TD) for 10 shots.
10 stop shots
TD
10 follow shots
TD
10 draw shots
TD

Only takes about 30 to 45 minutes to get 70 reps in, and I feel pretty good afterwards.

 

[One Pocket John]

Thanks John. Were your #1 to #3 points above from Tor in person? In the video he advocates hitting different spins and different speeds.

Yes. When you begin to get use to Pro - High very little effort is required to place the QB where you want it. The spin you apply to the QB will add the speed off the rails. Try it, you'll be surprised. Don't force the follow thru, it will happen naturally as you finish the stroke.

We've all done the CB up and down table and return to our tip. I can do it fairly reliably, and I'm a C+ player. But in actual game play, my stroke breaks down with real shots. Thats one reason I'm leaning to when doing the 2000 to 3000 stroke drills, is to do multiple variations, fast, medium, lag speed, high, low, low outside, etc. All combinations. And even aim towards different parts of the pocket (to fix when the eye plays tricks on you). In my opinion, this method makes more sense than using the same exact method on all of the shots.

Yes your eyes will fool you when it comes to steep cut shots to the corner pockets.

John

 

[One Pocket John]

Okay.......I'll go first.

The video is structured around beginners and intermediate players. It is done very well.

For beginners the video explains the use of a ghost ball for aiming. That's fine. As the video progresses Tor gets into automatic aiming, this is slated toward intermediate players. Good transition.

Next is the sliding QB, I believe this is one of the best features of the video, takes the guess work out of position play.

Now the 9 ball break. Personally I have never looked at the QB last on the break. I'll mess around with this to see if it works for me. If the pros are doing this then I will work hard to incorporate it into my game.

The last one is "building the stance around the shot line" I understand this but not a whole lot of instruction was given on the angle of the hips in relation to the shot line. I know that the hip angle to the shot is approx. 45 deg. But there is no mention to perform the chin lock or to line up your shooting shoulder on the shot line. Only to line your cue up on the shot line and bend over.

Its a very good video with over a million views but leaves me with a few unanswered questions.

Like most player/instructional videos they seem to skip the very most insignificant details and why that most beginning and intermediate players need to move forward.

Just my $0.02 Chris. :smile:

John

 

[The Renfro]

Thanks John!!! I have an hour slated tonight to get thru some more of it so will likely have a better take on things....

I did notice he spoke about building around the shot line but didn't go into it.. I think alot of players don't spend the time to see the shot line and build around it... They just get down and adjust. I am a believer in Gene Albrecht's idea of Aiming while standing up and learning to drop straight down on the shot line....

This approach has my back foot with the instep on the shot line and stepping forward with my front foot until my hip clears and I can drop straight down with the head not bobbling left and right as I go down.....

I know Mark Wilson wants the back foot where the shot line is just in front of the rear foot but I am thinking my shoulders are not as wide as his because when I set up that way I feel like I have to work really hard to get to where I can keep my head over the cue going down without a bunch of movement....

My idea of building around the shot line is that the grip hand on the cue is the same distance from the hip every time... I stand with my back foot instep on the line and step forward parallel to the aim line drooping on the shot line.... If I setup too close to the ball I do not get all the way down and my hip may not clear the area I need it to for my stroke... If I setup too far away I am reaching for the shot... Sometimes you have to because of the table but if you can avoid reach you should re-setup closer to the cueball on the shot line......

So as far as the angle of the hips I am likely working on keeping them as closed as possible while clearing the hip... This keeps me in the most stable position for me... On the far end would be opening the hips where the front foot steps away from the shot line as you go down......

 

[krupa]

Here is Tor's stroke drill. Has anyone done the whole thing? Before invesing the time, did you decide to change your stroke or keep your current methodology? For example, elbow drop, stance, eye pattern, etc. In other words, if one is going to invest much time on this drill, how should one process which technique to use in their own version?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm-VDuGzJS4#t=1953

32:30 is the time stamp.

There is a lot more going on with this drill than is shown/explained in the video. What is not pointed out is:
1. The cue has to be as level as possible.
2. The QB is struck with Pro-High. Very close to the miss cue point.
3. You roll the QB with very little to no slide. It takes very little effort to roll the QB.

I had to change my entire stance (PSR) in order to achieve a horizontal upper arm so that I could deliver a level cue.

To put the whole PSR (Pre-Shot-Routine) together you may want to purchase Mark Wilson's book and view CSI's series with Dr. Cue. He explains how to deliver a straight stroke. (The plum bob effect)

Have fun.

John

Question about this stroke drill...

He says your tip should end on the table even when shooting with high follow. Is that right? My backhand hits my chest well before the tip gets to the cloth and when I really looked at it, my tip says very parallel to the table on most shots.

I don't say he's wrong, but is he absolutely right? What would I need to do to achieve this (to me) strange motion?

 

[captainjko]

Question about this stroke drill...

He says your tip should end on the table even when shooting with high follow. Is that right? My backhand hits my chest well before the tip gets to the cloth and when I really looked at it, my tip says very parallel to the table on most shots.

I don't say he's wrong, but is he absolutely right? What would I need to do to achieve this (to me) strange motion?

Tor was here yesterday and coming back each day this week. I was doing the same thing with hand hitting ribs at chest on long follow through. I widened my stance and this helped. I left my right foot (back foot) in the same place on shot line, just moved left foot a little forward and to the outside. It feels a little awkward but hasn't messed with my shot making. Not hitting my ribs though. Will post again when possible.

 

[BasementDweller]

Here is Tor's stroke drill. Has anyone done the whole thing? Before invesing the time, did you decide to change your stroke or keep your current methodology? For example, elbow drop, stance, eye pattern, etc. In other words, if one is going to invest much time on this drill, how should one process which technique to use in their own version?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm-VDuGzJS4#t=1953

32:30 is the time stamp.

Tor has some great stuff for sure but I'm still a bit skeptical about this particular stroke drill.

It just seems like it would be way too easy to reinforce a bad stroke doing this drill since you aren't getting any feedback from the cue ball. I think the old boring cue ball straight up and back down drill would be much better since you are way more likely to see if you are actually hitting the cue ball off center or not.

How would you like to do this drill 2,000 times only to discover later that you were actually hitting the cue ball slightly off center and you just finished reinforcing this off center hit? That would suck.

It seems like what this particular drill is focused on is making you "look" like you are stroking the ball well -- which isn't totally a bad thing but wouldn't you rather work on looking good at the table AND ensuring you are stroking the ball properly at the same time? This would sort of be like hitting a golf ball a few thousand times without knowing where it was actually going.